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06-11-2008, 12:34 AM
  #26
worstfaceoffmanever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I doubt Hornqvist or Pihlstrom will play due to the fact that they are expected to compete in camp for NHL roster spots. Hornqvist is more likely, but still doubtful. I think Sulzer is still recovering from his groin injury and doubt he will skate, although he will likely be listed and will participate in all off-ice events. Dekanich, Smith, Gromet-Morris, and either a 2008 draftee or a free agent prospect will be the goalies. Engren might be there too, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Add Ian MacKenzie to the list of forwards too.
I keep forgetting McKenzie. Would competing in prospect camp have any effect one way or the other on competing for a roster spot?

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As for NCAA players, I suspect Geoffrion will be there. Flynn, Thang, and Ryan depends on their financial situation. I suspect that most will be missing, but we might see them as this is really their only opportunity to participate in the Predators conditioning program throughout the year, despite the cost.
I figured Geoffrion might, since his family lives in Brentwood(?) so travel costs wouldn't be that bad for him. Could he host the other three or does that vioalte NCAA regulations?

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Expect some of the 2008 draftees to attend camp as well. I remember distinctly seeing Weber and Klein hang out around town after the 2003 NHL Draft because the camp was the following week and they were asked to participate. I was staying in the same hotel - on the same floor through Tuesday when they moved to another hotel - and ran into them not only at the hotel, but all around the area as well. I remember running into them at the Logan's Roadhouse by Centennial on Monday night when Weber was wearing a Kelowna Rockets polo and Klein was wearing one from Toronto St. Mikes.
I think most of our 2007 class was there last year. Engren might not have been, but I remember hearing about Blum, Smith, Dietrich, Thuresson, Spaling, and Mark Santorelli.

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06-11-2008, 12:38 AM
  #27
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I'm a little surprised you guys aren't more interested in Umberger.

I'm not sure what Sullivan's status is, but you guys basically have 5 top-6 forwards right now and excess d-men. Umberger fills out your top-6, Arnott, RJ, Dumont, Radulov, Legwand, Erat.

I don't think Umberger is worth Hamhuis by himself or Suter or Weber, but I think that could be the beginning of a potential deal.

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06-11-2008, 01:14 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by laramie pass View Post


I posted in a different part of HF, as a Flyers fan, I am getting embarrassed by fellow Flyer fans. As a group, Flyer fans are slowly morphing into MTL fans with insane trade proposals. It's like they believe that 29 other GM's are dying to make us a deal that makes our team better, while marginalizing their own.

Come on. RJ Umberger doesn't even come CLOSE to scratching the surface for Dan Hamhuis, on so many different levels and for about a thousand different reasons.
Fellow Flyer fan here. I couldn't agree more...Hamhuis (IMO) is worth more than Umberger straight up. Sure as a Flyer fan I would accept a deal like this, but discussions such as these are hogwash if they aren't realistic in nature.

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06-11-2008, 01:21 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I'm a little surprised you guys aren't more interested in Umberger.

I'm not sure what Sullivan's status is, but you guys basically have 5 top-6 forwards right now and excess d-men. Umberger fills out your top-6, Arnott, RJ, Dumont, Radulov, Legwand, Erat.

I don't think Umberger is worth Hamhuis by himself or Suter or Weber, but I think that could be the beginning of a potential deal.
Umberger has scored 20 goals once, and that was on a pretty deep Flyers team his first year in the NHL. We need a goal scorer to replace Sullivan, and Umberger hasn't established himself as a goal scorer. I would rather take my chances with Patric Hornqvist on the second line.

And you're not getting Hamhuis unless you're willing to get ripped off on the deal.

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Lupul and Nodl
for
Suter
That actually seems pretty fair, if not in Nashville's favor. Lupul's horrific season in Edmonton worries me, though. Nodl would be a good addition to a weak stable of wingers and maybe an eventual replacement for Dumont. With our deep stable of defensemen, and particularly with Blum and Klein on the rise, we can probably afford to part with Suter.

Dumont-Arnott-Radulov
Lupul-Legwand-Erat
Pihlstrom-Nichol-Tootoo
Fiddler-Bonk-Smithson
Ortmeyer/Peverley-Hordichuk

Weber-Hamhuis
Koistinen-Zidlicky
Klein-Zanon
De Vries/FA

Not great, but Sulzer and Laakso can probably jump in immediately next year and Blum a couple of years down the road and gives us some solid forwards, er, going forward.


Last edited by worstfaceoffmanever: 06-12-2008 at 11:57 PM.
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06-11-2008, 01:24 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
That actually seems pretty fair. Lupul's horrific season in Edmonton worries me, though. Nodl would be a good addition to a weak stable of wingers and maybe an eventual replacement for Dumont. Maybe throw in a 2nd-3rd round pick to cement the deal.
Done.

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06-11-2008, 01:27 AM
  #31
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Done.
Wow, you're really hellbent on getting Suter, aren't you?

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06-11-2008, 01:47 AM
  #32
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Wow, you're really hellbent on getting Suter, aren't you?
Yeah, he's pretty much the perfect acquisition for the Flyers that's possible. Everyone else is not good enough defensively, or offensively, or they're not physical enough.

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06-14-2008, 04:59 PM
  #33
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I suggested Umberger (RFA) for Klein (RFA) and either Dekanich or Smith on the Trade Rumors and Proposals board. What do you think?

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06-14-2008, 05:10 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I suggested Umberger (RFA) for Klein (RFA) and either Dekanich or Smith on the Trade Rumors and Proposals board. What do you think?
FOR THE LAST TIME, WE DO NOT WANT R.J. UMBERGER


Besides, that trade really undervaules Klein and is too much in Philly's favor. Something else has to come back the other way.

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06-14-2008, 05:12 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post

Besides, that trade really undervaules Klein and is too much in Philly's favor. Something else has to come back the other way.
I don't think the value is too far off. It would be close. I think Smith wouldn't be moved, but Dekanich possibly could be included. Klein's value has already been destroyed by Trotz/Poile.

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06-14-2008, 05:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
FOR THE LAST TIME, WE DO NOT WANT R.J. UMBERGER


Besides, that trade really undervaules Klein and is too much in Philly's favor. Something else has to come back the other way.
Could have done without the caps, there. And that is fine, your assessment makes sense. We have a few other forward prospects, as well. Why the R.J. hate, though? I like him a lot; we've just got a massive amount of forwards right now, even with Kapanen back in Finland.

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06-14-2008, 05:51 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Could have done without the caps, there. And that is fine, your assessment makes sense. We have a few other forward prospects, as well. Why the R.J. hate, though? I like him a lot; we've just got a massive amount of forwards right now, even with Kapanen back in Finland.
lets see here ... for one thing, he hasn't progressed in the goal scoring department over the last three seasons like he should have (20, 16, 13) and that is what we're sorely lacking a GOAL SCORER ... not another setup man

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06-14-2008, 06:03 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Dave is a Killer View Post
lets see here ... for one thing, he hasn't progressed in the goal scoring department over the last three seasons like he should have (20, 16, 13) and that is what we're sorely lacking a GOAL SCORER ... not another setup man
Fair enough. R.J. should fair better with 2nd line minutes, but he will always get more assists than goals. I think he could be a 25-35-60 guy in time, though.

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06-14-2008, 06:10 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Fair enough. R.J. should fair better with 2nd line minutes, but he will always get more assists than goals. I think he could be a 25-35-60 guy in time, though.
we need that Next Year ... not "in time"

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06-14-2008, 06:14 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Could have done without the caps, there. And that is fine, your assessment makes sense. We have a few other forward prospects, as well. Why the R.J. hate, though? I like him a lot; we've just got a massive amount of forwards right now, even with Kapanen back in Finland.
Sorry for the caps, but Umbmerger is this close to becoming the new Cammalleri.

Like Fire Trotz- er- Dave said, Umberger hasn't progressed as a goal scorer and that's really what we need, so to give up a blue-chip defense prospect and one of two highly-touted goalie prospects (Smith is also earmarked as our "Goalie of the Future") for a guy who's gonna score 15 goals and probably not see much time above the third line doesn't make much sense.

If it was Klein for Umberger straight-up, I could see us doing it because it solves a problem for both teams. I'm just sick of all the "Umberger + for _______" propsals. Especially the Hamhuis ones.

If we're trading for a top six winger, we don't need someone long-term. We really just need a saftey net for Hornqvist should he not be NHL ready upon arrival at camp. I would say Knuble but I don't think we can get him for Klein.

Now, if we're looking for a player who gives us decent depth and has the potentia to become a top six winger, then Umberger is our guy.


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06-14-2008, 07:52 PM
  #41
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come on who are we kidding? Umberger's value is overated alot of HF but he has much more value then Klein, I would take this deal in a minute. Umberger is not the answer to our 2nd line problems buit he could spot duty on the 2nd line and he would look great on the third line

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06-14-2008, 07:56 PM
  #42
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come on who are we kidding? Umberger's value is overated alot of HF but he has much more value then Klein, I would take this deal in a minute. Umberger is not the answer to our 2nd line problems buit he could spot duty on the 2nd line and he would look great on the third line
that's great and all, but Sullivan being out (not gonna be a second line option), Umberger (3rd liner masquerading as a 2nd liner in that one series in the playoffs), I'd much rather go with the kids (Hornqvist AND Pihlstrom) and draft a forward (Boedker OR Wilson) and a big dman (Myers # 15)

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06-14-2008, 11:44 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Dave is a Killer View Post
that's great and all, but Sullivan being out (not gonna be a second line option), Umberger (3rd liner masquerading as a 2nd liner in that one series in the playoffs), I'd much rather go with the kids (Hornqvist AND Pihlstrom) and draft a forward (Boedker OR Wilson) and a big dman (Myers # 15)
Boddeker or wilson is not gonna take over the 2nd line spot immediately. Neither will Pihlstrom. Hornqvist, I hope he does. We need a pure goal scorer on the second line. This team is still Defense heavy and light on quality forwards. You can say Umbeger is overrated all you want but he is still a quality forward. If Philly offers you him for Klein you take it and fit Umberger in somewhere because he makes the forward corps better NOW and it helps relieve some of the logjam we have at D. He would also provide somebody who could fill in as spot duty in the top six if an injury happens or something.


I thought the Suter for Umberger + proposals were as stupid as the next Pred fan but Umberger for a a D man who isnt likely to ever see real time on our blueline and a goaltending prospect who will probaly never have a real impact, Sign me up any day of the week.

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06-15-2008, 12:07 AM
  #44
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Boddeker or wilson is not gonna take over the 2nd line spot immediately. Neither will Pihlstrom. Hornqvist, I hope he does. We need a pure goal scorer on the second line. This team is still Defense heavy and light on quality forwards. You can say Umbeger is overrated all you want but he is still a quality forward. If Philly offers you him for Klein you take it and fit Umberger in somewhere because he makes the forward corps better NOW and it helps relieve some of the logjam we have at D. He would also provide somebody who could fill in as spot duty in the top six if an injury happens or something.


I thought the Suter for Umberger + proposals were as stupid as the next Pred fan but Umberger for a a D man who isnt likely to ever see real time on our blueline and a goaltending prospect who will probaly never have a real impact, Sign me up any day of the week.
how much do you think umberger is gonna ask for/get

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06-15-2008, 12:29 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Dave is a Killer View Post
how much do you think umberger is gonna ask for/get
I'd say he'll get $2.5M and be very happy.

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I thought the Suter for Umberger + proposals were as stupid as the next Pred fan but Umberger for a a D man who isnt likely to ever see real time on our blueline and a goaltending prospect who will probaly never have a real impact, Sign me up any day of the week.
I call BS on the bolded protion. Both Smith and Dekanich project as starting NHL goaltenders and Smith has already been earmarked as the GotF.

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06-15-2008, 03:15 AM
  #46
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I can't shake the feeling that people are thinking "Flyers fans are trying to trick us because Umberger was great in the playoffs!" That isn't true in the least. If I read anything about Pisani or Druce again, I'LL be the one to go crazy with the caps. The fact is, we have too many forwards. The Preds seem to have too many d-men, and that's why people are throwing out proposals. A 2nd/3rd line tweener with size and defense isn't that far off value-wise from a young d-man with 2nd pairing potential, is he?

BTW, Kevin Klein looks eerily like the missing Margera brother. I think he may end up on Radio Bam sometime.

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06-15-2008, 09:22 AM
  #47
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Klein plus a little extra for Umberger seems completely fair value wise to me. I think WOF really likes Smith AND Dekanich which is why you will find disagreement there.

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06-15-2008, 12:49 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
I'd say he'll get $2.5M and be very happy.



I call BS on the bolded protion. Both Smith and Dekanich project as starting NHL goaltenders and Smith has already been earmarked as the GotF.
By Whom? Just by the sheer statictics neither one is likely to be a NHL goalie. Do you get to watch them personally? I don't equate NCAA and Junior league success to a smooth transition into a starting NHL goalie. I have yet to see scouting reports that have them projected to be starters. I hope I'm wrong but i wouldnt allow a far from can't miss prospect be the roadblock from making a trade that would improve the team today.

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06-15-2008, 12:54 PM
  #49
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Klein plus a little extra for Umberger seems completely fair value wise to me. I think WOF really likes Smith AND Dekanich which is why you will find disagreement there.
That makes sense. Having a couple of very good goalie prospects is a great situation. I was trying to address needs on both sides.

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