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Estimate of '08-'09 RFA Compensation Limits - an 11.6% increase

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Old
06-11-2008, 03:25 PM
  #26
ginner classic
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Originally Posted by Sandlak View Post
We're both wrong, actually. I'll amend the offer to Bernier to 6 years, 23.5M.
Certainly don't think you ned to go that high at all. I think 2.6 million per would do it. I can't see Buffalo matching that.

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06-11-2008, 03:42 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by hillbillypriest View Post
Wouldn't the Oilers do handstands if Pitkanen filed for arbitration? IMO, his value is based on potential. His stats for 07/08 on the other hand don't look so hot. If I were Pitkanen, I'm not sure I would take this risk this summer, and bind myself to the Oilers for the next season at least in the process.
It depends on what you think Pitkanen is going to get in arbitration. If you think he's only going to get $3 million or so, let him file. If you think he could get $5 million, then do you accept it based on that potential or do you say, "sorry - too rich for us" and let him walk? Besides, for any demand there might be for him I don't see anyone deciding they have to have him so badly that they're willing to give up picks in next year's draft.

I could be wrong, but I don't see him getting an offer sheet that he'll sign ... and if he doesn't file for arbitration and doesn't take his qualifying offer, then he could be at the mercy of the Oilers barring a huge offer from someone else [which, as I said, I don't think comes along].

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06-11-2008, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ginner's in T.O. View Post
Certainly don't think you ned to go that high at all. I think 2.6 million per would do it. I can't see Buffalo matching that.
Nor should they.

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06-11-2008, 06:02 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
Nor should they.
Don't you think that Bernier signed to a reasonable deal, and $2.6M isn't crazy, would have more value than a 2nd round DP?

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06-11-2008, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
It depends on what you think Pitkanen is going to get in arbitration. If you think he's only going to get $3 million or so, let him file. If you think he could get $5 million, then do you accept it based on that potential or do you say, "sorry - too rich for us" and let him walk? Besides, for any demand there might be for him I don't see anyone deciding they have to have him so badly that they're willing to give up picks in next year's draft.

I could be wrong, but I don't see him getting an offer sheet that he'll sign ... and if he doesn't file for arbitration and doesn't take his qualifying offer, then he could be at the mercy of the Oilers barring a huge offer from someone else [which, as I said, I don't think comes along].

Don't disagree with anything you've said, but I think he pretty much is at the mercy of the Oilers because I don't think he has good comparables the moment. The risk for the Oilers that he'd get an arbitration award seems to be based on a possibility that the arbitrator would award him a salary high enough to be a walkaway problem for the Oilers on the basis of his potential rather than his most recent stats. However, if the market doesn't value Pitkanen's potential enough to have one team willing to give him an offer of $5 million, which would cost a team 2 firsts, a second and a third under the newly revised comp schedule, why would an arbitrator do that? On balance of probabilities, I would suggest that Pitkanen would be at much greater risk of attracting a low award than he has potential to get a good award, so I would have a hard time seeing him make this decision.

If the Oilers worst case scenario happened an he filed and got an award in excess of 5 million, I think the Oilers swallow hard on a one year deal and see what they get for him at the deadline. I don't think it will come to that however. If he doesn't get traded, I think Pitkanen will settle on another one year deal in the $3 million range in the hopes of having better statistics and market value next summer.

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06-11-2008, 09:06 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginner's in T.O. View Post
Add to that....Tuomo Ruutu and Jarett Stoll...both of which could be had for 2nd round pick compensation. I can't see any of those teams matching a 2.6 million dollar offer on those players.

You are out to lunch on your Green and Weber offers, try 5 million plus per year, and still those teams match.
I can't really see any team offering Stoll a 2.6M offer sheet. There is discussion on the Oiler board on whether or not he is worth even his qualifying offer of 2.2M.

However, I'd wager that the Oilers and MacT would be in a better position to judge his value and would most likely match a 2.6 offer. For Stoll, who was once regarded as a potential future captain of the Oilers before his concussion, I don't see why Oilers management would lose him for what amounts to 200k. This isn't Smyth we're dealing with.

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06-11-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Don't you think that Bernier signed to a reasonable deal, and $2.6M isn't crazy, would have more value than a 2nd round DP?
When did $2.6 million a season become the going rate for massively inconsistent 15 goal scorers? The kid's got potential, sure, but paying for potential AND paying for production is going to ruin the league. I think it's way out of whack and would rather they walk if someone decides to make that offer.

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06-11-2008, 11:31 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Chainshot View Post
When did $2.6 million a season become the going rate for massively inconsistent 15 goal scorers? The kid's got potential, sure, but paying for potential AND paying for production is going to ruin the league. I think it's way out of whack and would rather they walk if someone decides to make that offer.
Which is exactly why players in the 2nd and 3rd round pick compensation ranges offer a lot more intrigue than those with a 1st and a 3rd or more as compensation.

Bernier, Ruutu, and Stoll....all real interesting players this year.

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06-11-2008, 11:45 PM
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Ducks match Perry at 5.2M, IMO it's gonna be over 5.5M which is more than Getzlaf(5.325 I believe) in order for Burke to even consider...How long do opponent GM's have to match that offer? And than can the team bump the offer from say 5.2 to like 5.5 if it gets matched the first time, or when it gets matched does tht mean that he is signed?

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06-12-2008, 12:11 AM
  #35
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Seven (7) days to match. Once the offer sheet is tendered and accepted, it's a flat "take it or leave it" deal; the original team cannot amend the terms in any way, and they cannot trade the player while the offer sheet is still pending acceptance or refusal. Once accepted or rejected, the terms of the offer sheet become binding on the team that ends up with the player.

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06-12-2008, 12:35 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
Seven (7) days to match. Once the offer sheet is tendered and accepted, it's a flat "take it or leave it" deal; the original team cannot amend the terms in any way, and they cannot trade the player while the offer sheet is still pending acceptance or refusal. Once accepted or rejected, the terms of the offer sheet become binding on the team that ends up with the player.
This is the reason why I think we could see one or more RFAs moved before June 20 (draft) for picks. Trading a player before June 20 nets you a specific pick in the draft, whereas July 1, you have no idea what you will get in return. A top 5 pick is a helluva lot better than two first round picks in the mid 20s.

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06-12-2008, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
Seven (7) days to match. Once the offer sheet is tendered and accepted, it's a flat "take it or leave it" deal; the original team cannot amend the terms in any way, and they cannot trade the player while the offer sheet is still pending acceptance or refusal. Once accepted or rejected, the terms of the offer sheet become binding on the team that ends up with the player.
got it, gracias.

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06-12-2008, 02:12 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
Seven (7) days to match. Once the offer sheet is tendered and accepted, it's a flat "take it or leave it" deal; the original team cannot amend the terms in any way, and they cannot trade the player while the offer sheet is still pending acceptance or refusal. Once accepted or rejected, the terms of the offer sheet become binding on the team that ends up with the player.
I thought the original team can reconstruct the $/y. So if a team offers 5.5/4.5/4.5/3/2.5 for a cap hit of 4mil/y, the the original team can change it to a salary of 4mil/y?

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06-12-2008, 08:27 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by backs4mvp View Post
I thought the original team can reconstruct the $/y. So if a team offers 5.5/4.5/4.5/3/2.5 for a cap hit of 4mil/y, the the original team can change it to a salary of 4mil/y?
Nope - that's never been part of the terms of offer sheets. Even if for some reason it was, it still wouldn't affect the cap number attached to the contract.

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10.3 Offer Sheet and First Refusal Procedures.
(a) When a Restricted Free Agent receives an offer to sign an SPC from any Club (the "New Club") other than his Prior Club, which offer the Player desires to accept, he shall give to the Prior Club, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto, a completed certificate substantially in the form of Exhibit 6 attached hereto (the "Offer Sheet"), signed by the Restricted Free Agent and the New Club, which shall contain the "Principal Terms" (as defined below) as well as all other terms of compensation of the New Club's offer. The Prior Club, within seven (7) days after the date it receives the Offer Sheet, may exercise or not exercise its Right of First Refusal, which shall have the legal consequence set forth below. Once an Offer Sheet for a Restricted Free Agent has been received by the Prior Club, the Prior Club may not Trade or otherwise Assign its Right of First Refusal for such Restricted Free Agent.

(b) If the Prior Club gives the Restricted Free Agent and his Certified Agent, if any, notice, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereto, that it is exercising its Right of First Refusal (a "First Refusal Exercise Notice"), such notice to be substantially in the form of Exhibit 7 attached hereto, to the Player's and his Certified Agent's, if any, address or facsimile number listed on the Offer Sheet, if any, within the seven (7) day period, such Restricted Free Agent and the Prior Club shall be deemed to have entered into a binding agreement, which they shall promptly formalize in an SPC, containing: (i) all the Principal Terms (subject to subsection (e) below); and (ii) such additional terms as may be agreed upon between the Restricted Free Agent and the Prior Club. The Prior Club may not Trade that Restricted Free Agent for a period of one year from the date it exercises its Right of First Refusal.

(c) If the Prior Club does not give the Restricted Free Agent the First Refusal Exercise Notice within the seven (7) day period, the Player and the New Club shall be deemed to have entered into a binding agreement, which they shall promptly formalize in an SPC, containing all of the terms contained in the Offer Sheet, and the Restricted Free Agent's Prior Club shall receive from the New Club the Draft Choice Compensation, if any, specified in Section 10.4 below.

(e) For the purposes of this Article, the Principal Terms of an Offer Sheet are limited to the term, Paragraph 1 Salary and Signing Bonus and Reporting Bonus the New Club offers to the Restricted Free Agent (currently and/or as Deferred Compensation in specified installments on specified dates) in consideration for his services as a hockey Player under the SPC.

(f) All Principal Terms contained in an Offer Sheet shall be fixed and readily determinable amounts of cash, which shall not be subject to any conditions or contingencies whatsoever, except as to the date on which payment is to be made.

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