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Martin Looks To Improve Defense, Happy With Forwards and Goalies Now In Organization

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Old
06-13-2008, 02:09 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Which in actuality is what I've been trying to say. It's better to move Olli for a solid player or players than to think about moving Bouw until we have to if he won't sign.

Martin wants a big package for Olli or he won't trade him, he could bring in Lupul and Umberger no problem, especially if coupled with Ryno.

you don't trade a guy like Bouw unless you have to, see the Luongo deal.
This is 100% wrong. Philly doesn't need any more offense. They need D. Also, Olli and Van Ryn make 8.85 million b/w the two. Way too much money for a team that is too close to the cap. Horrible trade.

This team with Olli who I think would be rejuvenated with worthy line-mates without Bouw makes the playoffs, period.

Imagine Umberger/Carter Jokinen Lupul .... That is sweet line.

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06-13-2008, 02:13 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Which in actuality is what I've been trying to say. It's better to move Olli for a solid player or players than to think about moving Bouw until we have to if he won't sign.

Martin wants a big package for Olli or he won't trade him, he could bring in Lupul and Umberger no problem, especially if coupled with Ryno.

you don't trade a guy like Bouw unless you have to, see the Luongo deal.
Let's be realistic. Ryno has essentially zero trade value right now, in fact, he may have negative trade value with his contract the way it is. He's basically been out of hockey for two seasons, as he was unproductive, and no one knows how his wrists are going to hold up. He's worth way more to us if he can come back and be effective again as he's a good puck mover and isn't a stupid decision maker. I think his wrist injuries had a lot to do with his overall lousy play, so he's better off keeping IMO to see if he can return to form and be the top 4 dman that he's capable of.
MagJo is a great signing for a 5th or 6th dman spot. He was great at the WC and I think has some ability if he gets used to the NHL game. Murphy's a waste IMO as well but who knows. He's too small and horrid defensively. Welch is promising as well. In terms of our defense, with Bouw, Allen, VanRyn, Welch, MagJo, Cullimore (if he's back), and a FA signing in Liles or Redden, or more realistically considering we're FLA, Ron Hainsey, our defense looks decent, especially if Welch can prove himself.

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06-13-2008, 02:17 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
This is 100% wrong. Philly doesn't need any more offense. They need D. Also, Olli and Van Ryn make 8.85 million b/w the two. Way too much money for a team that is too close to the cap. Horrible trade.

This team with Olli who I think would be rejuvenated with worthy line-mates without Bouw makes the playoffs, period.

Imagine Umberger/Carter Jokinen Lupul .... That is sweet line.
Period? There you go with your crystal ball again.

they're also likely to rid themselves of Hatcher and Smith which will open some cap space.

100% is your thinking the team without Bouw can make it all the way while ignoring the hole that's left and then thinking that FA will provide the guy to fill it.

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06-13-2008, 02:19 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
Period? There you go with your crystal ball again.

they're also likely to rid themselves of Hatcher and Smith which will open some cap space.

100% is your thinking the team without Bouw can make it all the way while ignoring the hole that's left and then thinking that FA will provide the guy to fill it.
On the trade forums you agreed with someone saying they were close to the cap. But for Bouw they would make room and he would also be less. There is no way any reasonable GM takes Van Ryn without sending garbage back our way.

The FA wont completely fill it. But b/w the increased offense and less pressure on the D combined with a better coach we will.

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06-13-2008, 02:22 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 View Post
Let's be realistic. Ryno has essentially zero trade value right now, in fact, he may have negative trade value with his contract the way it is. He's basically been out of hockey for two seasons, as he was unproductive, and no one knows how his wrists are going to hold up. He's worth way more to us if he can come back and be effective again as he's a good puck mover and isn't a stupid decision maker. I think his wrist injuries had a lot to do with his overall lousy play, so he's better off keeping IMO to see if he can return to form and be the top 4 dman that he's capable of.
MagJo is a great signing for a 5th or 6th dman spot. He was great at the WC and I think has some ability if he gets used to the NHL game. Murphy's a waste IMO as well but who knows. He's too small and horrid defensively. Welch is promising as well. In terms of our defense, with Bouw, Allen, VanRyn, Welch, MagJo, Cullimore (if he's back), and a FA signing in Liles or Redden, or more realistically considering we're FLA, Ron Hainsey, our defense looks decent, especially if Welch can prove himself.

It's still hard to read your posts since they often have no paragraphs, but I agree with your defense. I'd rather see Murphy gone and Johansson brought back with Cullimore. Not sure where that leaves Van Ryn and Welch, so we'll likely only get one of them.

You forgot to add Skrastins in there, though, and with the FA addition, we have too many defensemen again. We needed the extras last year, however.

i see the pairings as:
Bouw-Allen
FA-Skrastins
Welch-Murphy/Johansson/Cullimore/Van Ryn

I realize Ryno doesn't have great trade value right now, but he does add value in a package.

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06-13-2008, 02:24 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
On the trade forums you agreed with someone saying they were close to the cap. But for Bouw they would make room and he would also be less. There is no way any reasonable GM takes Van Ryn without sending garbage back our way.

The FA wont completely fill it. But b/w the increased offense and less pressure on the D combined with a better coach we will.
I still disagree. Van Ryn adds value if packaged, but I'm smart enough to understand that his value is decreased.

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06-13-2008, 02:25 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
It's still hard to read your posts since they often have no paragraphs, but I agree with your defense. I'd rather see Murphy gone and Johansson brought back with Cullimore. Not sure where that leaves Van Ryn and Welch, so we'll likely only get one of them.

You forgot to add Skrastins in there, though, and with the FA addition, we have too many defensemen again. We needed the extras last year, however.

i see the pairings as:
Bouw-Allen
FA-Skrastins
Welch-Murphy/Johansson/Cullimore/Van Ryn

I realize Ryno doesn't have great trade value right now, but he does add value in a package.
Van Ryn adds no value. He is signed till 2010 at over 3 million. No reasonable GM takes him. He only goes if we take salary back.

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06-13-2008, 02:26 PM
  #158
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theres two ways to look at it.

1. Bouwmeester does not wish to sign in Florida, he will bring in a much better return than Olli ever would. There are enough teams out there that need someone who can lead the breakout. We would have some leverage in a trade but not much. I think we could still get a good amount of overpayment out of it as well. With Trading Bouwmeester we can add more offense and keep Olli, surround him with good players, and not have to rely on our defense as much as we do now.

2. Bouwmeester signs, Olli is traded for some consistent 2nd line players and have 2 good 2nd lines rather than 1 very below par 1st line and one good 2nd line. But the thing is.. I dont think Olli can bring in a real big return like Martin seems to think. It's possible yes.. but quality and quantity isn't something GMs like to trade away. I mean I personally do not believe market value is there for Jokinen. It's very limbo IMO because either we trade Jokinen for what we can get (highest value offered) or keep him, and see how his season plays out, which from the end of last season does not look good.. That may hamper trade negotiations as well.

It's a hypothetical if Bouwmeester wishes to not sign, alrighty. Trade him for quality and quantity, which we could get. I just don't think we could get both with Jokinen. Of course I could easily be wrong but if teams want Jokinen so badly, why hasnt a deal been done? I just don't think teams want to pay what we want them to. And if a trade is absolutely necessary for Jokinen, we have to trade him now before his stock plummits any further.

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06-13-2008, 02:28 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Nate The Great View Post
theres two ways to look at it.

1. Bouwmeester does not wish to sign in Florida, he will bring in a much better return than Olli ever would. There are enough teams out there that need someone who can lead the breakout. We would have some leverage in a trade but not much. I think we could still get a good amount of overpayment out of it as well. With Trading Bouwmeester we can add more offense and keep Olli, surround him with good players, and not have to rely on our defense as much as we do now.

2. Bouwmeester signs, Olli is traded for some consistent 2nd line players and have 2 good 2nd lines rather than 1 very below par 1st line and one good 2nd line. But the thing is.. I dont think Olli can bring in a real big return like Martin seems to think. It's possible yes.. but quality and quantity isn't something GMs like to trade away. I mean I personally do not believe market value is there for Jokinen. It's very limbo IMO because either we trade Jokinen for what we can get (highest value offered) or keep him, and see how his season plays out, which from the end of last season does not look good.. That may hamper trade negotiations as well.

It's a hypothetical if Bouwmeester wishes to not sign, alrighty. Trade him for quality and quantity, which we could get. I just don't think we could get both with Jokinen. Of course I could easily be wrong but if teams want Jokinen so badly, why hasnt a deal been done? I just don't think teams want to pay what we want them to. And if a trade is absolutely necessary for Jokinen, we have to trade him now before his stock plummits any further.
I agree. I think Bouw determines what we do with Jokinen. If Bouw doesn't resign we could potentially trade both players and get a solid d-man from Nashville for Jokinen and Lupul and Carter from Philly for Bouw. Should be an interesting summer.

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06-13-2008, 02:33 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
It's still hard to read your posts since they often have no paragraphs, but I agree with your defense. I'd rather see Murphy gone and Johansson brought back with Cullimore. Not sure where that leaves Van Ryn and Welch, so we'll likely only get one of them.

You forgot to add Skrastins in there, though, and with the FA addition, we have too many defensemen again. We needed the extras last year, however.

i see the pairings as:
Bouw-Allen
FA-Skrastins
Welch-Murphy/Johansson/Cullimore/Van Ryn

I realize Ryno doesn't have great trade value right now, but he does add value in a package.
Yeah sorry about that, it's basically stream-of-consciousness posts lol. I just finished writing an essay for a class and I was simply scrolling down, reading bits and pieces of posts and then responding directly to whichever was the last sentence I read, w/o quoting it. My apologies.

I don't really think VanRyn adds any value personally. I think he's a neutral commodity due to his salary and unproductiveness. Sure, teams would take a chance on him, but he's not going to get us any additional pieces back unless they have huge question marks as well.

I also did forget Skrastins, good point. He's definitely a solid defensive defenseman for us. Signing a puck mover to play with him and having Bouw play with Allen could be very nice. I'm not sure if we bring Cully back or not. He wasn't bad but he's a tad slow. Regardless, our defense would be very good with the addition of Liles or Redden back there IMO, as Redden specifically could benefit from a fresh start.

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06-13-2008, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
It's still hard to read your posts since they often have no paragraphs, but I agree with your defense. I'd rather see Murphy gone and Johansson brought back with Cullimore. Not sure where that leaves Van Ryn and Welch, so we'll likely only get one of them.

You forgot to add Skrastins in there, though, and with the FA addition, we have too many defensemen again. We needed the extras last year, however.

i see the pairings as:
Bouw-Allen
FA-Skrastins
Welch-Murphy/Johansson/Cullimore/Van Ryn

I realize Ryno doesn't have great trade value right now, but he does add value in a package.

I just realized, I was indenting but when I post, it automatically removes and indents and just makes it flow together too, so I'm sure that's even more confusing.

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06-13-2008, 03:12 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 View Post
Yeah sorry about that, it's basically stream-of-consciousness posts lol. I just finished writing an essay for a class and I was simply scrolling down, reading bits and pieces of posts and then responding directly to whichever was the last sentence I read, w/o quoting it. My apologies.

I don't really think VanRyn adds any value personally. I think he's a neutral commodity due to his salary and unproductiveness. Sure, teams would take a chance on him, but he's not going to get us any additional pieces back unless they have huge question marks as well.

I also did forget Skrastins, good point. He's definitely a solid defensive defenseman for us. Signing a puck mover to play with him and having Bouw play with Allen could be very nice. I'm not sure if we bring Cully back or not. He wasn't bad but he's a tad slow. Regardless, our defense would be very good with the addition of Liles or Redden back there IMO, as Redden specifically could benefit from a fresh start.
He may have some value if a GM chooses to look at him for what he is and what he's been. I'm not saying he could definitely make the deal, I just don't think he kills one.

I'd like to see Culli signed as a reserve guy as it's likely inevitable that one of the regulars will go down. Would like to see Johansson brought back and Ryno and Murphy sent away. Though, the jury's still out on Murph.

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06-13-2008, 03:14 PM
  #163
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I just realized, I was indenting but when I post, it automatically removes and indents and just makes it flow together too, so I'm sure that's even more confusing.
You have great points, but I can't read many of your posts. Sorry to be all 8th grade English on you, I just want to read your posts.

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06-13-2008, 03:20 PM
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Any interest in trading for Cammalleri from the LA Kings?

What would you be willing to send our way?

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06-13-2008, 03:22 PM
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Any interest in trading for Cammalleri from the LA Kings?

What would you be willing to send our way?
This isn't the thread for those discussions - we have one stickied.

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