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Rangers Oilers Proposal for Pitkanen and Schremp

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06-15-2008, 02:42 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by klingsor View Post
Dammit, there you go again.

I blame you for us not being able to get anything of value for Immonen (a legitimate NHL 2nd line center), too.

You'd make one hell of a poor used car salesman, SOS.
lol.

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06-15-2008, 02:42 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
the thing is that drury is the center for the third line if jagr comes back....prucha needs a playmaking center.....not a match....then there is gomez, i dont want to give prucha a second line spot as i think the team can do much better then him.....thats all i was saying...in order for him to be the player he can be he needs a playmaker on his line and a big-body to help control the puck down low
Isn't Gomez a playmaking center? Do you really think Prucha should have been given any extended time with Gomez this season? If you don't think Prucha should be given a shot on the 2nd line (I agree) then why say Renney hasn't used him correctly..What else was Renney supposed to do?

So in order for Prucha to become a 2nd line scorer he not only needs a playmaking center BUT ALSO big body down low? What team is going to accommodate these needs for Prucha to score 20 goals? Is it even worth it..

This isn't about the Rangers not having a match for Prucha on the roster..(as if we need one for an undersized 10 goal scorer) This is about Prucha not being a match for the Rangers..

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06-15-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Isn't Gomez a playmaking center? Do you really think Prucha should have been given any extended time with Gomez this season? If you don't think Prucha should be given a shot on the 2nd line (I agree) then why say Renney hasn't used him correctly..What else was Renney supposed to do?So in order for Prucha to become a 2nd line scorer he not only needs a playmaking center BUT ALSO big body down low? What team is going to accommodate these needs for Prucha to score 20 goals? Is it even worth it..

This isn't about the Rangers not having a match for Prucha on the roster..(as if we need one for an undersized 10 goal scorer) This is about Prucha not being a match for the Rangers..
1) no, all i was saying is that he doesnt fit onto this team...this happens from time-to-time when a player just doesnt fit....i think he would fit great on a team like buffalo who plays an open style and has players like mair, gaustad, bernier, vanek.......

2) yes, for most teams, to get 20 or more goals, it may be worth it to throw a player like prucha on a line with say lucic or mair or antropov or whoever...there a re a lot of teams who have players already under contract who could fit those needs....no player is perfect.....i mean its the same thing with a playmaker like gomez, he would be much better with a goal-scoring winger....its that simple...

3) that is exactly what i was saying, however i do believe prucha can score 20 goals consistently.....he scored 7 playing half the games this year and 30 his first year....seems like he could probably do the same thing in the same type of situation.....most teams would love to get cap room and a still young 30 goal-scorer...he has value and IMO would be a good fit on many teams, just not here under renneys system

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06-15-2008, 02:54 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
This isn't about the Rangers not having a match for Prucha on the roster..(as if we need one for an undersized 10 goal scorer) This is about Prucha not being a match for the Rangers..
Well the Oilers have a bunch of guys who lack one or more elements required to have an impact. So, let's go back to the Bourret plus a pick deal, or even better Schremp for a pick.

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06-15-2008, 02:59 PM
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To me Schremp is a player who if he can't make your top two lines is pretty worthless. I don't really see him doing it on our team. Prucha is in the same boat--the one thing with him is he's actually done something at the NHL level--although not lately. He's not a very responsible checking line player. He did play on Hemsky's line in the Czech rep. during the lockout--so there might be chemistry there. The Rangers need more size and grit up front. Of the Oiler names mentioned here Torres would not be a bad addition.

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06-15-2008, 03:01 PM
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If that's what NYR need, you might want to have a look at Curtis Glencross. He's an energy type player who'll be UFA July 1 and played extremely well down the stretch for EDM.

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06-15-2008, 03:13 PM
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Part of what has taken Prucha out of the lineup is his one dimensionality--when things are going good he can score. I love his grit but he is physically weak and not very good on his side of the ice, not someone to throw out on the penalty kill.

The Rangers play a system game--that relies a lot on defensive awareness even from the forwards. How might Schremp fit into that?--is a big question. It's not just about being flashy and scoring. He's not going to replace a Jagr if he's gone. He does not seem to have a physical game and he has not been tested at the NHL level. Expecting him to come in and take over a top line spot is expecting a lot.

Playoff hockey seems to accentuate a teams weaknesses. Gritty players who can play like Callahan or Avery are fine but when we have no 6' or bigger forwards at all who can grind it out physically--you lose. Actually we do have Dubinsky but it's not enough.

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06-15-2008, 03:49 PM
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Every Rangers offer to other teams made by the fans involves Prucha. Tells you about how much he's valued by those who know him best.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i would do prucha, 3rd for schremp.....or some other prospects for schremp....not too high on pitkanen, he will cost too much.....

prucha
moore
3rd 08

schremp

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06-15-2008, 04:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
Every Rangers offer to other teams made by the fans involves Prucha. Tells you about how much he's valued by those who know him best.
as i have written, i like prucha...unfortunately his value is very very low because of last year....i think he can put up some points on another team...at least 40-50 points on a team that uses him correctly and could use some extra scoring....maybe a team like tampa bay, or vacouver who would be looking for cheap young talent....maybe they would give a 3rd or a 4th for him, which i would turn around and trade to edmonton with moore and the rangers 3rd for schremp as i think he can turn it around and become a good player for this franchise

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06-15-2008, 06:37 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Part of what has taken Prucha out of the lineup is his one dimensionality--when things are going good he can score. I love his grit but he is physically weak and not very good on his side of the ice, not someone to throw out on the penalty kill.
Funny that that is the role he excelled in in the Czech Republic...

Honestly, the "Prucha's no good in his own zone" bit is getting about as overplayed as the "Immonen lacks footspeed" mantra was.

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06-15-2008, 06:53 PM
  #36
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I saw the Wolfpack play Springfield, actually demolish Springfield last season, and whilst Schremp was'nt was'nt horrible he certainly was'nt worth Prucha...

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06-15-2008, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
1) no, all i was saying is that he doesnt fit onto this team...this happens from time-to-time when a player just doesnt fit....i think he would fit great on a team like buffalo who plays an open style and has players like mair, gaustad, bernier, vanek.......
You said you didn't think Renney would "use him correctly and that he should be in a more wide open system" I don't think Prucha would be a "great" fit on any of those teams..A "better" fit maybe but I'm not sure you could give Prucha away coming off the past two seasons..Most of his goals the 1st year were before Turner Stevenson drilled him into the boards. He hasn't been the same player since...

Quote:
2) yes, for most teams, to get 20 or more goals, it may be worth it to throw a player like prucha on a line with say lucic or mair or antropov or whoever...there a re a lot of teams who have players already under contract who could fit those needs....no player is perfect.....i mean its the same thing with a playmaker like gomez, he would be much better with a goal-scoring winger....its that simple...
If you look at the rosters of the players you mentioned they have better fits then Prucha...Not to mention Petr Prucha would drag those linemates down...

I don't understand why you are bringing Gomez into a debate about Prucha. Scott Gomez is good in all situations regardless of linemates..

Quote:
3) that is exactly what i was saying, however i do believe prucha can score 20 goals consistently.....he scored 7 playing half the games this year and 30 his first year....seems like he could probably do the same thing in the same type of situation.....most teams would love to get cap room and a still young 30 goal-scorer...he has value and IMO would be a good fit on many teams, just not here under renneys system
Petr Prucha played on the 2nd and 3rd line this year and dispite the misconception that he didn't get any power play time he certainly did for a stretch during the season. I doubt teams are going to look at Prucha's first year totals anymore, this is a sport of what you have you done for me lately not what have you done for me 3 years ago...Renneys system has nothing to do with why Prucha can't one time a shot nor does it have to do with why the puck slips off his stick time and time again...Renney system also has nothing to do with why Prucha gets drilled game after game.. (on the road those hits are momentum changers) Prucha has value in a package deal on his own I think he is worthless....you can't spend 1.6M on guys on 7 goal scorers who no show in the playoffs better...

I was a huge Prucha fan at one time but his effort/confidence (which was lacking) and his scoring abilty (which is lacking) are nothing to write home about. I hope your right, I hope Prucha is worth something that fits the team. I just can't sit here and honestly say that...


Last edited by Son of Steinbrenner: 06-15-2008 at 07:54 PM.
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06-15-2008, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
Well the Oilers have a bunch of guys who lack one or more elements required to have an impact. So, let's go back to the Bourret plus a pick deal, or even better Schremp for a pick.
I'd probably trade Bourret for Schremp but I wouldn't want to throw in a draft pick...

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06-15-2008, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Funny that that is the role he excelled in in the Czech Republic...

Honestly, the "Prucha's no good in his own zone" bit is getting about as overplayed as the "Immonen lacks footspeed" mantra was.
This isn't the Czech Republic though, and after 3 years of watching him (a pretty big sample size) it's not unheard of to say Prucha is not good in his own zone...

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06-15-2008, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by klingsor View Post
Dammit, there you go again.

I blame you for us not being able to get anything of value for Immonen (a legitimate NHL 2nd line center), too.

You'd make one hell of a poor used car salesman, SOS.
You can also blame me for Lundmark and Malhotra

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06-15-2008, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I'd probably trade Bourret for Schremp but I wouldn't want to throw in a draft pick...
I think the Oilers would probably want a draft pick. Bourret would have to clear waivers if they sent him down in September right?

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06-15-2008, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
I think the Oilers would probably want a draft pick. Bourret would have to clear waivers if they sent him down in September right?
I'm not sure but if i had to guess i'd say he wouldn't have to clear waivers..

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06-15-2008, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
You said you didn't think Renney would "use him correctly and that he should be in a more wide open system" I don't think Prucha would be a "great" fit on any team..A "better" fit maybe but I'm not sure you could give Prucha away coming off the past two seasons..Most of his goals the 1st year were before Turner Stevenson drilled him into the boards. He hasn't been the same player since...



If you look at the rosters of the players you mentioned they have better fits then Prucha...Not to mention Petr Prucha would drag those linemates down...

I don't understand why you are bringing Gomez into a debate about Prucha. Scott Gomez is good in all situations regardless of linemates..



Petr Prucha played on the 2nd and 3rd line this year and dispite the misconception that he didn't get any power play time he certainly did for a stretch during the season. I doubt teams are going to look at Prucha's first year totals anymore, this is a sport of what you have you done for me lately not what have you done for me 3 years ago...Renneys system has nothing to do with why Prucha can't one time a shot nor does it have to do with why the puck slips off his stick time and time again...Renney system also has nothing to do with why Prucha gets drilled game after game.. (on the road those hits are momentum changers) Prucha has value in a package deal on his own I think he is worthless....you can spend 1.6M on guys 7 goal scorers who no show in the playoffs better...

I was a huge Prucha fan at one time but his effort/confidence (which was lacking) and his scoring abilty (which is lacking) are nothing to write home about. I hope your right, I hope Prucha is worth something that fits the team. I just can't sit here and honestly say that...
i respecfully disagree with quite a few things you said here:

prucha is a goal scorer...last year he was playing ith callahan and drury, or drury and straka, or drury and shanahan....none of those players are playmakers.......IMO, buffalo would use him right.....there are quite a few teams who would try to bring him back to his old days.....

the reason i brought up gomez is because he is a playmaker....most playmakers play better when they have a goalscorer, am i wrong?.....am i in any way saying gomez is on the same plane as prucha....gomez is a much much better player....however, all im saying is certain types of players play better with certain types of other players is all i was getting at...

renney plays a defensive system that makes the wings go down too low to create much offense because the defense cant control or handle the puck very well....it works to win games but not create much offense as seen last year(hence the reason i want a puck-moving defenseman), instead of looking at pruchas downside lets look at his upside....he has a HUGE heart, he plays hard every shift, he scores the dirty goals, he goes to the dirty areas, he has shown he can score before on the nhl level, he stays healthy and he is a great team player........now, i understand what you are saying, but 30 goal scorers dont grow on trees.....ryder is going to get BIG money in free agency because he has had a couple 30 goal seasons....he would be a viable secondary scoring option for many teams who have the pieces as i mentioned to make him successful

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06-15-2008, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I'm not sure but if i had to guess i'd say he wouldn't have to clear waivers..
i believe he is on a two-way contract so he wouldnt have to clear waivers

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06-15-2008, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i respecfully disagree with quite a few things you said here:

prucha is a goal scorer...last year he was playing ith callahan and drury, or drury and straka, or drury and shanahan....none of those players are playmakers.......IMO, buffalo would use him right.....there are quite a few teams who would try to bring him back to his old days.....
i also respectfully disagree and this is why...How did Drury, Callahan, Straka, and Shanny score without a playmaker? IMO Buffalo would be stuck with a guy who small player that can't one time a shot and has shown nothing in the playoffs...
Quote:
the reason i brought up gomez is because he is a playmaker....most playmakers play better when they have a goalscorer, am i wrong?.....am i in any way saying gomez is on the same plane as prucha....gomez is a much much better player....however, all im saying is certain types of players play better with certain types of other players is all i was getting at...
Prucha has played bad with all kinds of players...For two seasons now...



Quote:
renney plays a defensive system that makes the wings go down too low to create much offense because the defense cant control or handle the puck very well....it works to win games but not create much offense as seen last year(hence the reason i want a puck-moving defenseman), instead of looking at pruchas downside lets look at his upside....he has a HUGE heart, he plays hard every shift, he scores the dirty goals, he goes to the dirty areas, he has shown he can score before on the nhl level, he stays healthy and he is a great team player........now, i understand what you are saying, but 30 goal scorers dont grow on trees.....ryder is going to get BIG money in free agency because he has had a couple 30 goal seasons....he would be a viable secondary scoring option for many teams who have the pieces as i mentioned to make him successful
I'd rather win games 1-0 then lose game 4-3...Maybe that's just me...I don't know..

I don't see an upside with Prucha. I also didn't see a player that played with much "heart" last season. I think he took shifts off (perhaps that's a confidence thing?) He scored "dirty" goals for one season...then got hurt and now looks like Jan Hlavac....30 goal scorers don't grow on trees but I bet you can find a forrest of one year wonders...

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06-15-2008, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
i also respectfully disagree and this is why...How did Drury, Callahan, Straka, and Shanny score without a playmaker? IMO Buffalo would be stuck with a guy who small player that can't one time a shot and has shown nothing in the playoffs...


Prucha has played bad with all kinds of players...For two seasons now...





I'd rather win games 1-0 then lose game 4-3...Maybe that's just me...I don't know..

I don't see an upside with Prucha. I also didn't see a player that played with much "heart" last season. I think he took shifts off (perhaps that's a confidence thing?) He scored "dirty" goals for one season...then got hurt and now looks like Jan Hlavac....30 goal scorers don't grow on trees but I bet you can find a forrest of one year wonders...
1) those players got to play with different players like gomez, jagr, dubinsky who are all mainly playmakers.....and none of them had that great of years....also, buffalo's coach, lindy ruff always gets the best out of all of his players....he uses their strengths such as speed, which is why they play transition, high-scoring hockey....

2) prucha hasnt played with all sorts of players....he has played with jagr and nylander(he had success), straka and jagr(he had success), cullen, drury, callahan, avery, shanahan(did not have success)....i believe that all of those players are the same type of player.....gritty shooters......IMO, put him with a playmaker and he could put up 20 goals or more....

3) i have no problem winning games 1-0 which is why i have said, repeatdly in other threads that i want to upgrade the defense and let the offense work things out....i just feel like he isnt the type of player who can thrive in that type of system is all....there is a reason renney wanted gomez and drury....its because they fit the system he wants to play to a "T"....

IMO, we are onto the same thing, just neither of us are voicing our opions correctly....i hjave nothing against renney's system, i like it....i just feel like prucha could play better in another system that isnt so closed....he has shown he can score, so i believe he can do so again.......his place is not on the rangers, which is why i thought a trade for torres would work because the rangers would get back another repetitive player from edmonton who would work well in the system who makes a little more money whereas edmonton woul dbe saving .5 million on cap space for a young depth scorer

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06-15-2008, 08:49 PM
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To be fair to Petr--it doesn't seem like he ever got to play with the same linemates for any length of time. He bounces all over. It can't be easy. As for the rest he just isn't that great defensively--part of it is a size/strength issue. I can't help it if some are tired of hearing it--IMO it's true. If he could put on 10-15 pounds he could probably compete better. He is still as scrawny as he was 3 years ago.

On Bourret he's just finished his second pro season so I believe he has one more year where he can be sent down without passing through waivers.

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06-15-2008, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
Schremp is working out with Ethan Moreau's brother Chad in California and reports are encouraging.
"Reports" are always encouraging. It's a little like surgery -- every one is reported as a success. Schremp for Bourret sounds OK. Prucha has more value than Schremp does.

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