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06-16-2008, 07:54 AM
  #26
Monctonscout
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I think people are underrating his defensive game and leadership. He's a slower version of Komisarek. I'd take him on for 2 years at a reasonable price(6-6.5 total)...or a 1 year 3.5 mil. If he is not working out you would have no problem trading him.

I think he is the type of player Toronto will overpay for because they need his grit and leadership, something like 8 mil for 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
I like Gorges as much as anyone. But on a true contending team, he would not crack the top 4.

As for Smith I'll pass, he looked too old and slow this year. I guess all the wear and tear from his aggressive style of play has finally caught up to him.
Correct, at this point Gorges is a #5 or 6 on a contender...maybe filling in at #4 in case of injuries.

The Habs are strong at #1-2-3 Hamrlik Komi and Markov but no true #4 guy...O'byrne Bouillon and Gorges are #5-6 guys right now(O'byrne should grow into #4 in 1-2 years)...Brisebois is #7 as he wears down playing every night.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 06-16-2008 at 10:26 AM.
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Old
06-16-2008, 08:17 AM
  #27
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Smitty is starting to remind me of Brad Marsh. He kinda looks like he skates with snow shoes on, but brings leadership and grit to the table. With the game we play, I don't see him being well suited for us, even though I do appreciate his grit and warrior attitude.

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06-16-2008, 09:27 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
Josh Gorges...
Maybe yes, maybe no. But anyway, getting somebody who _can_ play in the Top 4 isn't the same as somebody who _will_ play in the Top 4. We were pretty unscathed by injuries last year. But if Gorges pairs nicely with Hamrlik most days, I still wouldn't mind having a base covered in the event that Komi or Hamrlik get hurt and somebody else has to step up to more minutes. I'm not sure if Smith is still capable of that or not - he seemed to manage ok on a team that eliminated us in the playoffs - but he has at least done it in the past, and consequently might be able to do so again. If he's more typically playing third-pairing minutes when we're all healthy, or if he just meshes better with Bouillon or something, that's fine too. Keith Carney would be in a similar category to consider IMHO.
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Originally Posted by Clumsyhab View Post
Jason Smith = Craig Rivet.
Which is basically exactly what I'd be looking for.

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Old
06-16-2008, 10:27 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Maybe yes, maybe no. But anyway, getting somebody who _can_ play in the Top 4 isn't the same as somebody who _will_ play in the Top 4. We were pretty unscathed by injuries last year. But if Gorges pairs nicely with Hamrlik most days, I still wouldn't mind having a base covered in the event that Komi or Hamrlik get hurt and somebody else has to step up to more minutes. I'm not sure if Smith is still capable of that or not - he seemed to manage ok on a team that eliminated us in the playoffs - but he has at least done it in the past, and consequently might be able to do so again. If he's more typically playing third-pairing minutes when we're all healthy, or if he just meshes better with Bouillon or something, that's fine too. Keith Carney would be in a similar category to consider IMHO.

Which is basically exactly what I'd be looking for.
I think Bouillon can step it up. Ok Gorges and Bouillon are not exactly great Ds, but as an overall strategy I think I would prefer spending dollars on the first line than on a possible 4th D. The big picture as to come into play here because another 3M$ D will rapidly increase the cost of our defense with Komo set to get a big raise. The target should be around 20-22m for the D

Gorges progressed from 7th to 5th D over the course of last season, I think theres still plenty of potential for him to improve to be at least the stable 4th man for the time being.(Before the defensive rebuilt at the draft table shows in the years to come.)

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-Gorges
Bouillon-Obyrne
Dandenault, Valentenko

Future:

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-Gorges
Valentenko-Obyrne
Carle, Subban, Mcdonagh, Weber, Fischer fighting for a spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
I like Gorges as much as anyone. But on a true contending team, he would not crack the top 4.

As for Smith I'll pass, he looked too old and slow this year. I guess all the wear and tear from his aggressive style of play has finally caught up to him.
So at 21 years old playing top 4 minutes with the Sharks was just an aberration?


Last edited by Beakermania*: 06-16-2008 at 11:36 AM.
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06-16-2008, 10:33 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
So at 21 years old playing top 4 minutes with the Sharks was just an aberration?
No it wasn't, but if he was a true top 4 D-man. Don't you think they would have kept him?

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Old
06-16-2008, 10:41 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
No it wasn't, but if he was a true top 4 D-man. Don't you think they would have kept him?
If you look at what they have in terms of Ds, I think it was more of a case of too many puck moving guys and not enough grit, they did traded him for Rivet.

Are they going to trade Vlasic, Ehrhoff or Carle away? He was seen as the least talented of the group(perfectly fine observation) but he was never really about talent anyway. I think hes a good top 4 D, for the price we will pay for him, a very important consideration with Dandenault and Bouillon still on the payroll at around 2m per and the objective of adding a superstar upfront for big dollars while giving big raises to Komo, Plecky and Higgins.

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06-16-2008, 10:53 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
If you look at what they have in terms of Ds, I think it was more of a case of too many puck moving guys and not enough grit, they did traded him for Rivet.

Are they going to trade Vlasic, Ehrhoff or Carle away? He was seen as the least talented of the group(perfectly fine observation) but he was never really about talent anyway. I think hes a good top 4 D, for the price we will pay for him, a very important consideration with Dandenault and Bouillon still on the payroll at around 2m per and the objective of adding a superstar upfront for big dollars while giving big raises to Komo, Plecky and Higgins.
I'll agree that's why they traded him, but I still am not thrilled with Gorges being a good top 4 d-man. Since he's still young I can see him slowly developing into a top 4. But as of this moment, I would feel a lot more comfortable adding a top 4 d-man and keeping Gorges as a 3rd pairing d-man with Cube or O'byrne.

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Old
06-16-2008, 11:04 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
I'll agree that's why they traded him, but I still am not thrilled with Gorges being a good top 4 d-man. Since he's still young I can see him slowly developing into a top 4. But as of this moment, I would feel a lot more comfortable adding a top 4 d-man and keeping Gorges as a 3rd pairing d-man with Cube or O'byrne.
I feel the same, but on the other hand I'm quite sure that if you do that it's gonna cost you on the all-star forward bidding war.

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Old
06-16-2008, 11:11 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
I feel the same, but on the other hand I'm quite sure that if you do that it's gonna cost you on the all-star forward bidding war.
Excellent point, nice way to look at the big picture. In that case I would agree to keep Gorges as a top 4.

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Old
06-16-2008, 12:20 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLR View Post
I think Bouillon can step it up. Ok Gorges and Bouillon are not exactly great Ds, but as an overall strategy I think I would prefer spending dollars on the first line than on a possible 4th D. The big picture as to come into play here because another 3M$ D will rapidly increase the cost of our defense with Komo set to get a big raise. The target should be around 20-22m for the D.
We have plenty of cap space to prioritize getting a first line forward, as well as tagging on a possible #4(-6) D.

And the main reason I'd be looking at more veteran-ish guys like Smith or Carney would be the higher likelihood that they might be amenable to taking shorter term (preferably even just 1-year) contracts, hence providing no interference whatsoever with Komisarek's upcoming raise or the longer term budget constraints on our D. Of course, the NHL free agent marketplace is a wild and crazy place, so who knows if you even get a veteran D on just a 1-year deal. If not, it's fine by me to miss out. But I'd make the cast anyway, just to see what bites.

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