HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Prucha and Girardi

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-16-2008, 11:22 AM
  #26
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
I agree PruBlue...

although I did think that Girardi was beaten and out of position a bit too often which mostly didn't have to do with Toots. They're both good defensemen, but too often they were playing the role of shutdown defensemen - a role they didn't always seem comfortable playing. They were better at the end of the season as opposed to the first half, so hopefully that's something that carries over into next season.

As for Staal - he did have a vet next to him in Rozsival. It was Rozsival, however, who benefitted from playing with Staal. Rozy struggled last season (And I continue to believe he was trying to jack-up his offensive stats in a contract year to get the big payday). Staal played well while paired with Strudwick and Mara also. Staal flat-out was this team's best defensemen night-in and night-out, much to my surprise (I thought he'd be good, but he was a more steady than 20/21 year olds).

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 11:23 AM
  #27
Forechecker
Registered User
 
Forechecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,322
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Forechecker
The reality is, that our core d is very young and will continue to develop. The lack of veteran leadership and true shut down d exposed the learning curve of Girardi, Toots, and even Staal. Like I posted about earlier in the season, our d lacked a player that was both a mentor and skilled defender.

Forechecker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 11:36 AM
  #28
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
The reality is, that our core d is very young and will continue to develop. The lack of veteran leadership and true shut down d exposed the learning curve of Girardi, Toots, and even Staal. Like I posted about earlier in the season, our d lacked a player that was both a mentor and skilled defender.
excatly

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 01:04 PM
  #29
Cherepanisimov
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,181
vCash: 500
i want prucha to play on the 2nd w/gomez next year. he could probably hit 30 again.

Cherepanisimov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 06:05 PM
  #30
otto1219
Registered User
 
otto1219's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 998
vCash: 500
remember that time when girardi kicked the puck to hossa for the OT game winner? Yea that was awesome.

otto1219 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 06:15 PM
  #31
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,479
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
remember that time when girardi kicked the puck to hossa for the OT game winner? Yea that was awesome.
yea, like he did that on purpose.....and every other good player has never had a bad moment

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 06:15 PM
  #32
shon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 451
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
remember that time when girardi kicked the puck to hossa for the OT game winner? Yea that was awesome.
just an example of a comment made by someone who doesn't know anything about hockey. oh yes Girardi was on the ice by himself and just forgot what he was doing and kick the puck right to hossa. I know Girardi is brutal come on ..how come he couldn't take Crosby and Hossa both. Staal was so busy watching the play..ha ha....
we could debate all day , every player has his good and not so good points.
but that last play was not Girardi's fault. it was unfortunate it went off his leg but if I do remember there were 4 other guys on the ice and a goalie.

shon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 07:11 PM
  #33
otto1219
Registered User
 
otto1219's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shon View Post
just an example of a comment made by someone who doesn't know anything about hockey. oh yes Girardi was on the ice by himself and just forgot what he was doing and kick the puck right to hossa. I know Girardi is brutal come on ..how come he couldn't take Crosby and Hossa both. Staal was so busy watching the play..ha ha....
we could debate all day , every player has his good and not so good points.
but that last play was not Girardi's fault. it was unfortunate it went off his leg but if I do remember there were 4 other guys on the ice and a goalie.
meant to be a joke, chris farley anyone?

dont be so quick to judge, played d2 hockey in college bud.

otto1219 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 07:18 PM
  #34
otto1219
Registered User
 
otto1219's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 998
vCash: 500
i dont see any comparison between girardi and staal. girardi has better offensive numbers because he played more powerplay time and took more shots. Girardi had more than double the amount of shots that Staal had last year, and averaged 3 + more minutes a game. He is also 3 years older than staal. When people talk of trades to be made for this team, girardi is often mentioned as part of it, where as staal is untouchable. Girardi will be a solid 2nd pairing defense men for the next few years, but it is highly unlikely he will amount to a star.

otto1219 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 08:01 PM
  #35
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,721
vCash: 500
In a year or two people will think back to the fact that anyone compared Girardi with Staal and realize that the comparison stops with them both being defensemen with two legs.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 08:05 PM
  #36
we want cup
We do not Sow
 
we want cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 10,870
vCash: 500
I am a big fan of Prucha, and I really didn't understand why Renney didn't put him on the power play when it sucked all year and 2 years ago he had a ton of PP goals. Prucha needs to be on a line with guys who can cycle down low while he sneaks around to the front of the net. That's how he succeeded with Jagr. I say put him on a line with Drury and a big guy. He and Drury both play well around the front of the net, and having a big guy around would occupy defenders to free them up.

I think the key to assessing Staal this year was his ability to win one on one battles, which he almost always did. I would feel comfortable with Staal going head to head with a great number of the forwards in the league.

we want cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 09:44 PM
  #37
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
although I did think that Girardi was beaten and out of position a bit too often which mostly didn't have to do with Toots. They're both good defensemen, but too often they were playing the role of shutdown defensemen - a role they didn't always seem comfortable playing. They were better at the end of the season as opposed to the first half, so hopefully that's something that carries over into next season.

As for Staal - he did have a vet next to him in Rozsival. It was Rozsival, however, who benefitted from playing with Staal. Rozy struggled last season (And I continue to believe he was trying to jack-up his offensive stats in a contract year to get the big payday). Staal played well while paired with Strudwick and Mara also. Staal flat-out was this team's best defensemen night-in and night-out, much to my surprise (I thought he'd be good, but he was a more steady than 20/21 year olds).
It's tough to defend the season Rozsival had but if this was the case wouldn't he have shot the puck more? (I understand he was injured but his second half was a terrible drop off..he had nights where he was the teams worst defenseman..)

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-16-2008, 11:57 PM
  #38
mti79
Registered User
 
mti79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,327
vCash: 500
I've been defending Petr for a while and I understand he has his positives and negatives. I still think he has a role on this team and put in a good situation, he could thrive and net 20 goals for us. Only time will tell though.

mti79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 08:56 AM
  #39
MikeyLikesHockey
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 603
vCash: 500
hmmm...

I liked Prucha's play when he was given a chance in the playoffs. He was gritty and throwing his body around.

He will get his touch back....can't pull the trigger too soon.

I wonder, maybe one of you stat heads can pull this info.

Former rangers that we traded away before their 3rd season with the club who are making it big now. I know a few.

Mike York
Mattais Norstrom
Alexei Kovalev
Marc Savard

just to name a few.

MikeyLikesHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 09:30 AM
  #40
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
SoS...

he did have a career high in shots last season. But it's not just about taking shots, it's also about trying to force the puck to Jagr to get his assist total up. I think he shot more even though he may've had less opportunities to shoot (as in his PP unit did not move the puck as well as in the prior season resulting in him being in position less to get off a shot and he still managed only two less PP points).

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 10:14 AM
  #41
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,156
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
I never knew a defenseman maxes out his potential in his rookie season...
Sure, he has room to make improvements, but what in his game indicates to you that he has the ability to step it up and become a legitimate 1/2? It's not an indictment of his play, I think he's a fine second pairing guy. I just don't see much more room for projection.

Honest-to-goodness top pairing defenseman are few and far between, and I think it's unrealistic to project Girardi-- based on his body of work so far-- into that future role.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 10:16 AM
  #42
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,156
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyGSpot View Post
I liked Prucha's play when he was given a chance in the playoffs. He was gritty and throwing his body around.

He will get his touch back....can't pull the trigger too soon.

I wonder, maybe one of you stat heads can pull this info.

Former rangers that we traded away before their 3rd season with the club who are making it big now. I know a few.

Mike York
Mattais Norstrom
Alexei Kovalev
Marc Savard

just to name a few.
Mike York has like 32 points the past two seasons combined.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 12:09 PM
  #43
beastly115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 10,424
vCash: 500
Girardi's stats are very misleading and I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

This past season was technically Girardi's rookie year which is where the OP got the stats from. What he failed to mentioned is that Girardi played 34 games last season. Girardi already had nearly half a season under his belt before he began his "rookie season."

beastly115 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 12:17 PM
  #44
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
alp...

I don't understand what is misleading. Do you think that Girardi's stats aren't impressive because he played in 30-something NHL games already? If we're purely looking at stats, then I think Girardi's first pro season was a home run. 10 goals? Not bad. An even rating for a guy going against top lines on a team that struggled at times to score at even strength? Not bad either. If you look at 2008 alone he was a +9, so the trend is positive. Then in the playoffs he was +1 going against top lines in 10 games compared to -4 last season in 10 games not going against top lines. I think those are exactly the types of stats you'd like to see from a 24 year old defenseman who had 30-something NHL games (plus playoff games) under his belt.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 12:18 PM
  #45
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyGSpot View Post
I liked Prucha's play when he was given a chance in the playoffs. He was gritty and throwing his body around.

He will get his touch back....can't pull the trigger too soon.

I wonder, maybe one of you stat heads can pull this info.

Former rangers that we traded away before their 3rd season with the club who are making it big now. I know a few.

Mike York
Mattais Norstrom
Alexei Kovalev
Marc Savard

just to name a few.
Now make a list of those that weren't traded before their 3rd season who ended up nothing, to be fair.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 01:07 PM
  #46
RMcDonagh
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,268
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Sure, he has room to make improvements, but what in his game indicates to you that he has the ability to step it up and become a legitimate 1/2? It's not an indictment of his play, I think he's a fine second pairing guy. I just don't see much more room for projection.

Honest-to-goodness top pairing defenseman are few and far between, and I think it's unrealistic to project Girardi-- based on his body of work so far-- into that future role.
Completely agree. Rating Girardi as a future NR. 1/2 defenseman is a little homerism.

Staal's the only realistic one currently on our backline that you can say that about. Hell, our number one pair for the previous two years shouldn't even be on the pair.

RMcDonagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 02:19 PM
  #47
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,469
vCash: 500
I don't know...

if rating Girardi is actually homerism. I do believe he struggled at times against the top competition, but seemed to be better in the end than in the early goings, which is a positive sign that he was adjusting. Also, it was his first full NHL season and the adjustment for him was quite big, going from 14 minutes per night to more than 20 minutes against top lines while at the same time netting 10 goals. If Girardi had the exact same first 1+ NHL seasons and was drafted as a #1 pick, he'd be pegged as a top pair defenseman and people would talk about the progress and adjustments he made. I'm not saying he's going to become a legit top pair defenseman since I have my doubts, but at the same time wouldn't call people homers for saying that he will become one.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 02:46 PM
  #48
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,265
vCash: 500
The main thing that annoys me about Girardi is that people will bend over backwards to make excuses for him.

I like him a lot. He's a good, solid defenseman on the Rangers blueline that showed some promising offensive potential last year as well. But he doesn't need to be protected every time he screws up out there, and he had more than his share of screw ups last year. But no, for some reason people want to blame everything on Tyutin, or whoever else was out there, despite Girardi making plenty of his own mistakes.

I feel like he gets a golden child treatment because he was undrafted and that's kind of a feel good story. Whatever, he makes mistakes and he'll learn, there's no need to pretend he's infallible.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 06:03 PM
  #49
shon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 451
vCash: 500
I think it is quite the opposite. people constantly critisize him for the few mistakes he makes and not appreciate the sublte plays to get the puck out etc.
It is Staal who is the golded boy. never makes a mistake always everyone elses fault and is our best d man ever.
with that said. I love Staal and think he will be a top d man.
let's remember what ever Girardi does ,,, he was undrafted and plays as a solid second pairing not bad. and remember it was only is first season.

shon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-17-2008, 06:42 PM
  #50
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,265
vCash: 500
Some people rightly criticize Girardi. Most blame Tyutin.

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.