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2008 Draft Talk Part 4

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06-17-2008, 09:37 AM
  #1
shortcat1
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2008 Draft Talk Part 4

Pardon my apparent fixation on Terry Ryan but again, I've 'fallen upon' some related info that seems worthy of discussion.


I read TSN's TOP 60 PROSPECTS list (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/feature/?fid=1...topRelated_nhl) and I noticed that Kyle Beach is rated 10th. Interestingly, Terry Ryan, by the way, was rated 11th in his draft year.


The two players are quite similar. Aggressive power forwards, big, strong, score goals, drop the gloves, etc.

The differences would seem to be that Beach has a bit of an 'edge' in the skating department (maybe not that much... I don't know) but, in his favour, Ryan came into the draft ahead, health-wise. He had no substantial injury (concussions) record.


Here's a comparison of their draft year numbers.

Kyle Beach
YEAR-GP--G--A-PTS-PIM
07-08-60-27-30-60--222

Terry Ryan
YEAR-GP--G--A-PTS-PIM
94-95-70-50-60-110-207


I know that each person is different but there's an awful lot of similarities between these two.
Just based upon that and knowing what happened to Ryan, would Beach be a good early 1st round draft risk? Would it be better to wait until in the last third of the 1st round or as a second pick by some team that has two picks in the 1st round?

Personally, I'd be a bit hesitant to choose him unless I had two picks in the 1st round.

Ideas?


***********************************************
***********************************************


Just as an add-on to this topic, I'm surprised to see, on the TSN top 60 list, that Justin Jokinen is absent. He doesn't even make the 'Honourable Mentions' list. Interesting...

Aside from all of that, as a indication of my interests, Montreal, when I watch the draft on RDS (or TSN) Friday night, I'd like to see Montreal go for Deschamps, Jokinen or Nemisz. Not necessarily in that order of preference though I'd like to see an impact center, if possible.


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06-17-2008, 05:19 PM
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2008 Draft Talk Part 4

Discuss....

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06-17-2008, 05:20 PM
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Ryan's problem was his skating...Beach is his attitude. Personally, I hope we do not get Beach...do not want attitude on this team


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06-17-2008, 05:25 PM
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Terry was dumb as a post too, not just his skating held him back.

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06-17-2008, 06:36 PM
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Woodlief has us taking Trivino in his mock: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...ck-draft_N.htm

Interesting that his pick is a player that "Timmins insiders" have been talking about. Maybe it really will be one of Deschamps, Trivino, Sauve, or a trade-up for Bailey...

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06-17-2008, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Woodlief has us taking Trivino in his mock: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...ck-draft_N.htm

Interesting that his pick is a player that "Timmins insiders" have been talking about. Maybe it really will be one of Deschamps, Trivino, Sauve, or a trade-up for Bailey...
Personnally, I wouldn't be ecstatic nor will I be dissapointed. Would not be my pick but that would the type of decision that would suit me anyway. Not sexy but definately not a bad pick. Might be the pure definition of BPA at that point.

But if we take that mock draft as the exact replica of what will happen and we end up taking Trivino instead of John Carlson, I don'T care how stack we are on the back-end, I will not like this decision. I prefer thinking, like it should be that Carlson will be gone when we speak and that guys like Burlon, Sauvé and Del Zotto have more chance to be picked later than to see Carlson fall that much.

I tell you Carlson will end up being a better d-man in the end than most guys chosen before but I'm not including the top 5 guys though.

Something I like in that mock is seeing Deschamps around 20. Not that I would like that 'cause I would love our Habs to pick him but I'm pretty sure he won't be available and 20 is a good spot for him.

Jake Allen at 30 is not that stupid. He's definately a darkhorse in my books who's no longer that much of a darkhorse after that U-18. Still McCollum and Markstrom should be chosen before. But Allen that high, really, wouldn't surprise me much. Tons of teams wish they would have chosen Mason earlier...seems to me Allen and Delmas could be considered earlier than expected.

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06-17-2008, 06:53 PM
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In that mock draft John Carlson is still on the board at 25 & I'm positive with size, skill & what he did at the combine, that TT would never pass up the best available player.

That said, to quote Woodlief,
Quote:
Theyre really looking for a forward here and would love to have gotten one of the French kids,
. He must have a short memory after last years draft then eh??

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06-17-2008, 06:57 PM
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Here's exactly what I'm hoping for..

1st round: Nicolas Deschamps
2nd round: Justin Jokinen
3rd round: Nick Larson
4th round: Jack Downing
7th round: Tomas Knotek

In the first round we're getting what it's pretty much the consensus hope for the board. A player out of our own backyard, two-way ability who's drawing comparisons to Patrice Bergeron.

Scouting Report: NHL Central Scouting's Chris Bordeleau
"He came out of nowhere to be the top ranked player in the QMJHL. He is a very good skater who thinks the game well and has soft hands. He works hard and the up side to his skills makes us think he is going to be a pretty good all-round player. He was one of those players that kept improving to surprise a lot of people because the expectations for him were low at the beginning of the season."

In the second round, hopefully we can steal Justin Jokinen who is a center with the heighth and all he needs is the size and strength. I think that there's a real possibility that he may become a poor man's Ryan Getzlaf at the center position.

Scouting Report: NHL Central Scouting's Jack Barzee

"Justin moved to center this year and he ended up carrying his team to the State tournament. He is tall and skinny right now, but he's a lot like Jamie Langenbrunner was at that age, with a little bit different intensity than Langenbrunner had. When Justin kicks that intensity up he has that snap and finesse that allows him to make big plays. He can come down on the defenseman, use him as a screen and snap the puck off to surprise the goalie. He's one of those guys that has the uncanny ability to put the puck in the net – I think he can be a goal scorer at any level – he just needs to get stronger."



Cloquet-Carlton head coach David Esse

"Justin is one of the best athletes I have ever coached over the past 18 years. He makes everyone around him better and has such a passion and love of the game."

In the third round, we are taking the closest thing in the draft to Tomas Holmstrom. The guy we've been hoping for for years. Someone to do the nitty-gritty board work, get front of the net, tip pucks, screen the goalie and take the punishment

Scouting Report: NHL Central Scouting's Jack Barzee

"Nick plays an aggressive, physical game and he plays in all situations. He has excellent puck pursuit and he's hard to control in front of the net. He plays on Waterloo's top line and scored consistently down the stretch – he provided the physical game on his line. Overall, I see a lot of potential and upside in this kid."

In the fourth round, Jack Downing. I don't know why he isn't ranked to go higher, but he's a NCAA bound prospect that in mind is drawing comparisons to Max Pacioretty with more of a scoring touch but less of the defensive polish and NHL-ready body.

Scouting Report: University of Vermont head coach Kevin Sneddon
"Jack has proven himself to be one of the top rising young stars in Hockey East. He is a power forward with exceptional hands and ability to finish. If there's one player on our team that I would want the puck on his stick in tight to the net, it's Jack. I've been very impressed by his work ethic as well as his passion to learn from the coaching staff and his teammates. Jack will have a great future here at UVM as well as at the professional level."

Finally, in the 7th round, we're getting a guy I've seen extensively in the QMJHL. He's got the hands, everything else is suspect and he may never pan out.. But I like what I've seen from him and I'd love to give him a shot.

Scouting Report: Critics will credit his impressive offensive numbers to his linemates. Has slight build and doesn’t play overly physical. Possesses very good passing abilities which are complemented by good vision, poise, and overall hockey sense. Should certainly be scouted heavily this season.

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06-17-2008, 06:57 PM
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John Carlson is not making ti past New Jersey, guys.

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06-17-2008, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Here's exactly what I'm hoping for..

1st round: Nicolas Deschamps
2nd round: Justin Jokinen
3rd round: Nick Larson
4th round: Jack Downing
7th round: Tomas Knotek
Well, obviously I can't agree more with your picks. I have those guys minus Knotek in my big scenario and even though they're not all my number 1's, I would gladly welcome those guys. Just like that we're getting smarter and much much bigger. A couple of MaxPac types in the makings....you can't hate that.

But the day that Timmins won't go for a d-man has not arrived. I can bet you he will take at least 1 d-man. Not too sure about a goalie but wouldn't be surprise either that's why.....I WANT MORE PICKS!!!!

How awesome would that draft be if we were the Kings just for this day....do you imagine? 16 picks!!!!

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06-17-2008, 07:04 PM
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TT will pick one goaltender for sure IMO.

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06-17-2008, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Well, obviously I can't agree more with your picks. I have those guys minus Knotek in my big scenario and even though they're not all my number 1's, I would gladly welcome those guys. Just like that we're getting smarter and much much bigger. A couple of MaxPac types in the makings....you can't hate that.

But the day that Timmins won't go for a d-man has not arrived. I can bet you he will take at least 1 d-man. Not too sure about a goalie but wouldn't be surprise either that's why.....I WANT MORE PICKS!!!!

How awesome would that draft be if we were the Kings just for this day....do you imagine? 16 picks!!!!
No doubt, my friend. Obviously, all of those guys I slotted in, I want a lot.. but there's other names that didn't make it.. Trivino, Gustafsson, Grachev, Ullstrom and countless others.. But if we come out of the draft with a Patrice Bergeron, Getzlaf, Holmstrom, MaxPac v. 2 comparables.. that would be orgasmic.

I'm just really really liking what I'm reading about Jack Downing.

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06-17-2008, 07:13 PM
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Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I'm just really really liking what I'm reading about Jack Downing.
I do as well. Chances are that he could fall due to some questions about his smarts, his quickness, his defensive awareness and his all-around game. 'Cause needless to say from the blue line to the net, seems to me like a real powerful forward to play against, and real tough competitor who knows where the net is and drive it madly.

But in the 4th round, that guy has to be taken if he's not already.

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06-17-2008, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uwey View Post
In that mock draft John Carlson is still on the board at 25 & I'm positive with size, skill & what he did at the combine, that TT would never pass up the best available player.
He'll be gone for sure, but I agree with you, Carlson has TT written all over him.

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06-17-2008, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I do as well. Chances are that he could fall due to some questions about his smarts, his quickness, his defensive awareness and his all-around game. 'Cause needless to say from the blue line to the net, seems to me like a real powerful forward to play against, and real tough competitor who knows where the net is and drive it madly.

But in the 4th round, that guy has to be taken if he's not already.
Would he be comparable to J.T. Wyman?

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06-17-2008, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Drama View Post
Would he be comparable to J.T. Wyman?
Looks much much meaner and tougher. Seems that he's not a bad skater, would be surprise to see him faster than Wyman though. Probably not since Wyman is pretty good in that department.

And then add to the fact that Wyman actually played defense to help his university and I have to say that Wyman does have some defensive abilities and notions....

So to answer your question....I have to say No....

Only similarity might be that both guys seems actually at their best close to the net and are quite big guys to deal with. But that would be it though.

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06-17-2008, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by preston View Post
He'll be gone for sure, but I agree with you, Carlson has TT written all over him.
I agree. Gardiner has TT written all over him as well. Carlson going to London Knights. Gardiner going to Wisconsin and finalist to Mr.Minnesota.

Both guys are TT material. Gardiner is just a great skater.

Seems to me that Timmins is looking for a guy with a great quality. While both guys can't be compared, seems to me that we're witnessing another Fischer's scenario. I thought that Timmins would go for the, what it seems at the time, the more complete d-man in Summers. He went with the smooth, great skater with great size. Remove the size factor, and Carlson seems to be Summers while Gardiner, with his skating looks like Fischer. But again, you can't compare them that much. Gardiner seems much more explosive than Fischer was at that age.

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06-17-2008, 07:45 PM
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Terry was a sharpshooter almost Neely like. He never improved his skating though and had some concussion problems. If his skating would have improved he would have been something. Think Gary Roberts

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06-17-2008, 07:48 PM
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Was wondering....I didn't put him in my ND list, but is anybody here having a not-so-great feeling about Nemisz? For whatever reason, I just don't feel he'll amount to anything significant in the league. I just don't see his game translating offensively. Same for Jenks.

Might be just me.....or the supper I just ate....

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06-17-2008, 07:53 PM
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TT talked in his interview that three Montreal HS player were there. Who would they be ? My guess is :

Antoine Laganière
Nik Pokulok
Julien Cayer

Is there anyone who could be better options ?

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06-17-2008, 07:56 PM
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Why is there so much love for Justin Jokinen here?

Here's what he's ranked by all the draft guides:

Red Line Report: 194
McKeen's: NR...doesn't make their Top 125 or even their 50 Honourable Mention
ISS: 69
THN: NR...doesn't make their Top 100
TSN: NR....doesn't make Bobby Mc's Top 60 nor does he make the dozen or son Honourable Mentions
Futurc Considerations: 71

Also, I read on McKeen's site that Jokinen is soft and needs to add some courage to his game. Some people on this board are lobbying for him as a possible 1st rounder with Habs #25 pick. I don't get it.

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06-17-2008, 08:04 PM
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Thing is, this guy is a latecomer to the show. He got no attention early on. Started to get some attention cause of his good size(though still unfilled) and some qualities. The negatives didnt have time to stand out to the average fan and everyone is getting excited about Jokinen, maybe they're seeing another possible Pacioretty in him. I doubt it personally.

Flavor of the week is my call.

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06-17-2008, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Was wondering....I didn't put him in my ND list, but is anybody here having a not-so-great feeling about Nemisz? For whatever reason, I just don't feel he'll amount to anything significant in the league. I just don't see his game translating offensively. Same for Jenks.

Might be just me.....or the supper I just ate....
I don't mind him. I don't mind him at all. I think he'll become a decent 2nd liner.

The thing about Jokinen was that everyone seemed to get excited about him the other week, after an article in which his coach compared him to Langenbrunner. You have to take some of these things with a grain of salt.

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06-17-2008, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Was wondering....I didn't put him in my ND list, but is anybody here having a not-so-great feeling about Nemisz? For whatever reason, I just don't feel he'll amount to anything significant in the league. I just don't see his game translating offensively. Same for Jenks.

Might be just me.....or the supper I just ate....
I don't get a good feeling about Nemisz either. I think he will bust, or at least not be an impact player.

As for Jenks, as a late second roudn pick, I think he would be good value. I beleive he'll jsut be a good complimentary player. Nothing more.

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06-17-2008, 09:32 PM
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My dream list (using TSN's Top 60 as reference).

25-Nicolas Deschamps (6'0 173lbs C)
-Arguable the top available center at this draft position and we really need to deepen our prospect pool at center
-Not too small
-I don't give a damn but some will-he's from Quebec and plays for Carbonneau's Chicoutimi Sagueneens

56-Evgeny Grachev (6'3 202lbs C)
-Big, skilled, fast
-Some compare him to Malkin
-Marked as a steal by HockeysFuture (TSN has him 55)
-Most likely won't happen, if not, I'd go for Stefanovich

86-?
116-?
206-?

lol, I just don't know enough about the later picks.

Oh, and I've been wanting to say this: God damn the LHJMQ is weak, weak, weak. Forget removing fights and figure out how to train your players damn it. The only attractive players from the Q are Europeans. And before anyone mentions Crosby, he's the exception, not the rule (plus he's not from Quebec). And in that same vein, this comment from last year's draft will never leave me: Chantal Maccabe (or however it's written) "..it's the 7th round! Almost none of these players make it anyway, why don't the Habs just draft 'des p'**** quebecois' ?". Or something to that effect anyway.


Last edited by kernkraft: 06-17-2008 at 09:46 PM.
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