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Old
05-26-2004, 12:16 PM
  #1
BringGilmourBack
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Tor-Sj Proposal

To Sj: N.Antropov, T. Kaberle

To Tor: A.Korolyuk, V. Toskala, 3rd round drft pick in 05

Reason.... well, Toskala is your backup and will probably see no ice time with Nabakov ahead of him. Korolyuk is a streaky, flashy player with some grit (which i like). Toronto would offer up a smooth skating, rushing d-man, with excellant passing skills in Kaberle. And Antropov, although somewhat injury prone, could bring alot to the table if healthy. A 6'5 center with great hands and passing ability, that does play rough as well. A lil' sluggish on the feet at times. Anyways, your opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

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05-26-2004, 12:37 PM
  #2
Kevin Wey
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Nope:

Kaberle is not needed because Christian Ehrhoff is in the system, and this isn't two or three years from now, this is Ehrhoff next year. San Jose will be trying to trade Jim Fahey. Kaberle isn't a bad puckmoving defensemen, its just that San Jose has some in-house solutions. If Kaberle was an elite, like say Sergei Gonchar...but then that wouldn't happen

No way Korolyuk gets traded after how he finished the season and played in the playoffs. Although a big center might be nice, it's not as if Antropov is a major power forward.

Toskala plays a fair amount during the regular season. He's been named to Finland's World Cup team and rightly so. He more than equal Kiprusoff while in San Jose. Am I saying Toskala could have done what Kiprusoff did in Calgary? Yes, yes I am, or at least dang near. (I personally like Kiprusoff's style of goaltending a little more, but Toskala's results are inarguable.) Secondly, I really hope Toronto works with Tellqvist.

The value of players offered in this proposal is reasonable, just not components San Jose really needs.

If Toronto wants a decent back-up at low cost, look to Vancouver for Johan Hedberg. He didn't suddenly become bad. Mark Crawford can like Auld over him for whatever reason, but Hedberg is not a bad goalie. But he could be had rather inexpensively if that's what Toronto needs.

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05-26-2004, 12:46 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Wey
Nope:

Kaberle is not needed because Christian Ehrhoff is in the system, and this isn't two or three years from now, this is Ehrhoff next year. San Jose will be trying to trade Jim Fahey. Kaberle isn't a bad puckmoving defensemen, its just that San Jose has some in-house solutions. If Kaberle was an elite, like say Sergei Gonchar...but then that wouldn't happen

No way Korolyuk gets traded after how he finished the season and played in the playoffs. Although a big center might be nice, it's not as if Antropov is a major power forward.

Toskala plays a fair amount during the regular season. He's been named to Finland's World Cup team and rightly so. He more than equal Kiprusoff while in San Jose. Am I saying Toskala could have done what Kiprusoff did in Calgary? Yes, yes I am, or at least dang near. (I personally like Kiprusoff's style of goaltending a little more, but Toskala's results are inarguable.) Secondly, I really hope Toronto works with Tellqvist.

The value of players offered in this proposal is reasonable, just not components San Jose really needs.

If Toronto wants a decent back-up at low cost, look to Vancouver for Johan Hedberg. He didn't suddenly become bad. Mark Crawford can like Auld over him for whatever reason, but Hedberg is not a bad goalie. But he could be had rather inexpensively if that's what Toronto needs.

Good post

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05-26-2004, 03:01 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Wey
(I personally like Kiprusoff's style of goaltending a little more, but Toskala's results are inarguable.)
Kiprusoff has an advantage in that he's bigger than Toskala. I'm gonna root for the little guy however. Go Toskala!

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Old
05-26-2004, 03:29 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Wey
Nope:

Kaberle is not needed because Christian Ehrhoff is in the system, and this isn't two or three years from now, this is Ehrhoff next year. San Jose will be trying to trade Jim Fahey. Kaberle isn't a bad puckmoving defensemen, its just that San Jose has some in-house solutions. If Kaberle was an elite, like say Sergei Gonchar...but then that wouldn't happen

No way Korolyuk gets traded after how he finished the season and played in the playoffs. Although a big center might be nice, it's not as if Antropov is a major power forward.

Toskala plays a fair amount during the regular season. He's been named to Finland's World Cup team and rightly so. He more than equal Kiprusoff while in San Jose. Am I saying Toskala could have done what Kiprusoff did in Calgary? Yes, yes I am, or at least dang near. (I personally like Kiprusoff's style of goaltending a little more, but Toskala's results are inarguable.) Secondly, I really hope Toronto works with Tellqvist.

The value of players offered in this proposal is reasonable, just not components San Jose really needs.

If Toronto wants a decent back-up at low cost, look to Vancouver for Johan Hedberg.
He didn't suddenly become bad. Mark Crawford can like Auld over him for whatever reason, but Hedberg is not a bad goalie. But he could be had rather inexpensively if that's what Toronto needs.
The part in Bold I like/agree with the most

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Old
05-26-2004, 03:38 PM
  #6
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No thanks - the Sharks have depth at the C position and would not gain much here. We have excellant depth at D with Ehrhoff on the way (he's also
a smooth skating, quick Ofensive minded player). I'm also thinking
that korky had a breakout year for the sharks, he may have upside so i'd not
want to move him until i see what ths update is (e.g. we might not get
enough for him when we could get more later). It's also not clear to me
that we have a backup tender in the wings for next year. I think we Vesa, as
he's proven to be excellant.

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Old
05-26-2004, 05:53 PM
  #7
Kevin Wey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvengerK
Kiprusoff has an advantage in that he's bigger than Toskala. I'm gonna root for the little guy however. Go Toskala!
Avenger: Which makes Toskala's inclination to go down more potentially problematic. Thankfully Toskala is not a flopper though. When I say Toskala goes down more, I mean he will lower his upper body more often, not staying as upright as say Nabokov or Kiprusoff. I really like those two's styles. Goalies that have that butterly/stand-up mix are my favs. Ehelechner and Patzold are like this too, and neither is a tiny goaltender. That said, Toskala's inclination to lower his upper body makes him really good at controlling rebounds around the crease. He's on those with his glove fast. There is a plus and a minus, and with Toskala's results so far, the minus is minimal.

After Steve Shields' flopping around...ugh, a big goalie flopping, the humanity! Use that upper body to your advantage! San Jose has the five goalies it needs. Kiprusoff was just odd man out and I'm happy San Jose traded him to give him a shot to prove himself. Miikka did fine last night too. He's still not any better than either Nabby or Toskala. (A point of mine all along, I just happen to like the two Finns more than Nabby, it has NOTHING to do with ability or results.)

Pinto: I'm happy that at least one Leafs fan agrees with me. I always try to offer something constructive in return if I reject a trade proposal amongst fans.

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Old
05-26-2004, 06:16 PM
  #8
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Toronto fan here.. So i'm probably biased.. But I wouldn't make that trade. Not trying to demean any of the San Jose players.. but I just don't know how you guys can say no to that.


Korolyuk's been in the NHL now what, 6 years and has never eclipsed 40 points. He's has one good playoffs in a year where a lot of players were overachieving. Antropov is also four years younger.

Toskala is useless to us IMO with Tellqvist in the pipe ready to go.


So essentially we'd be trading one of our top 3 defenseman, someone who would be second amongst defensemen in points and +/- on your team, for a guy who probably couldn't even crack our top two lines and a goaltender to sit on the bench.

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Old
05-26-2004, 07:13 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini
Toronto fan here.. So i'm probably biased.. But I wouldn't make that trade. Not trying to demean any of the San Jose players.. but I just don't know how you guys can say no to that.

Korolyuk's been in the NHL now what, 6 years and has never eclipsed 40 points. He's has one good playoffs in a year where a lot of players were overachieving. Antropov is also four years younger. :
Thank you.

Korky spent some time in the previous coachs dog house and had to
play over seas last year - over all this has slowed his development
somewhat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini
Toskala is useless to us IMO with Tellqvist in the pipe ready to go.

So essentially we'd be trading one of our top 3 defenseman, someone who would be second amongst defensemen in points and +/- on your team, for a guy who probably couldn't even crack our top two lines and a goaltender to sit on the bench.
Right on.

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Old
05-26-2004, 07:23 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini
Toronto fan here.. So i'm probably biased.. But I wouldn't make that trade. Not trying to demean any of the San Jose players.. but I just don't know how you guys can say no to that.


Korolyuk's been in the NHL now what, 6 years and has never eclipsed 40 points. He's has one good playoffs in a year where a lot of players were overachieving. Antropov is also four years younger.

Toskala is useless to us IMO with Tellqvist in the pipe ready to go.


So essentially we'd be trading one of our top 3 defenseman, someone who would be second amongst defensemen in points and +/- on your team, for a guy who probably couldn't even crack our top two lines and a goaltender to sit on the bench.

Antropov - has lost a lot of mobility and is not likley to command much in a trade
Kaberle - regressed this year and did not do much in the playoffs - new surroundings might help

Korolyuk - did not get a chance with Sutter as the coach due to poor defensive play , is on the penalty killing unit now

Toskala - has #1 ability and the Sharks have no acceptable backup


To sum up - no interest in Antropov and Toskala is untouchable. At this point I would keep Korolyuk over Kaberle. Ekman and a 3rd in 2004 for Kaberle is a possibility.

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Old
05-26-2004, 07:28 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini

Toskala is useless to us IMO with Tellqvist in the pipe ready to go.

Just wondering, who would back up Tellqvist? It sounds like Kidd is gone, and Belfour is planing to retire.



Ya, a fair deal, but not a needed deal. Sj does not need more defensemen. I love Anthropov, but SJ has enough centres already... How is he on the faceoff?

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Old
05-26-2004, 07:59 PM
  #12
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If I'm the Sharks, I make this deal in a heartbeat.

Kaberle has almost 80 more points in one more year than Stuart. Frankly, the assumption that Ehrhoff will just jump right in and be the PP QB is what caused Jillson to become a bust. Kaberle would be a great, great addition now for sure. Ehrhoff, he might be. Might.

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05-26-2004, 07:59 PM
  #13
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I agree with Kevin here. Ehrhoff and Kaberle play a very similar style, and I, myself, am a Toskala supporter as well. He's the future number one of this team when Nabokov's contract is up, or future contract is up. And then a third rounder in the 05 draft, which is expected to be very deep, is far too much to cover the minimal gap between Korolyuk and Antropov, even if there is one.

As for faceoffs, I'd agree with going after Perrault. Sillinger was a great acquisition for the Blues late in the year, and he's very good on draws. I believe he's a FA, isn't he?

As for Tellqvist as a starter, Centomo would more than likely be the backup.

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Old
05-27-2004, 01:42 AM
  #14
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About Toskala: A lot will depend on Nabokov's future contract. If they'll be able to sign him to a long term contract, Toskala should get the possibility to go in case he gets a chance somewhere (to find a solid backup as replacement would be a very easy choice). If not, San Jose should keep Toskala.

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05-27-2004, 08:30 PM
  #15
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to me, it's as simple as this:

Why dump a great backup Goaltender and an awsome forward that is fitting into the SJ glove perfectly?

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Old
05-27-2004, 09:57 PM
  #16
SpinTheBlackCircle
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I love Korky. I do. but.....awesome? Awesome?

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Old
05-27-2004, 10:29 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzank
Thank you.

Korky spent some time in the previous coachs dog house and had to
play over seas last year - over all this has slowed his development
somewhat.
And Antropov's development has been slowed by injuries and similar situations. He's played full time the last years, but he's bounced between the AHL and NHL as well.
As well Pat Quinn isn't exactly a poster-boy for developing younger players.


There are two reasons why San Jose wouldn't move Korolyuk for Antropov.

1.) They feel that Antropov's injuries will limit him even further and he'll end up missing more games than he currently does.
2.) They don't have a real need for a player like Antropov and Korolyuk fits well in the current team system.

In terms of a strictly player for player swap, Antropov > Korolyuk, and decisively so IMHO.

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05-28-2004, 01:53 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAndWhite
In terms of a strictly player for player swap, Antropov > Korolyuk, and decisively so IMHO.
Injuries do factor into a strict player for player swap.

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05-28-2004, 10:58 AM
  #19
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So does current team chemistry.

There's no way San Jose would call upon Nik Antropov to kill penalties. I don't think most of the rest of the NHL (fans in this case) appreciate exactly what Alexander Korolyuk has now become. It should become clear next season when Korolyuk spends all of next season on the top two lines. His offense down the stretch was impressive and the turnaround is so big he's kiling penalties.

I know there is no way San Jose would trade Korolyuk straight up for Antropov.

San Jose is also a speed team, which Korolyuk fits into and Antropov does not.

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Old
05-31-2004, 12:21 AM
  #20
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As for Kaberle and Ehrhoff, I wouldn't make this trade. Chrsitian is anotherof the German connection, and eventually, SJ will be the German's NHL Team....

not that the above matters only to say that Ehrhoff was given a good shot in the NHL this year and then hit Cleveland. I don't think SJ is in such a rush as Sutter was with Jillson. I can only imagine that Sutter's overbearing/aggressive coaching style left Jillson feeling like a freshman in College again.

I can't see Wilson leaping tons of responsibility on him, nor can I see Wilson continue to ice a player who needs more development and confidence. I like what Ehrhoff did this year and I hope he can do more next year, but if he's in Cleveland so be it.

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Old
05-31-2004, 01:45 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModestoFan
not that the above matters only to say that Ehrhoff was given a good shot in the NHL this year and then hit Cleveland. I don't think SJ is in such a rush as Sutter was with Jillson. I can only imagine that Sutter's overbearing/aggressive coaching style left Jillson feeling like a freshman in College again.
To me it always looked like Lombardi was in a rush to get Jillson playing while Sutter wanted to send him down, don't know but it just seemed like it. Since Sutter kept benching him and Lombardi praising him.

There is no way the Sharks do this trade with the Leafs. Antropov hasn't shown anything at all (except that he is injury prone) while Korky finally put it together. Ehrhoff is a big part of the Sharks future while Kaberle wouldn't provide the Sharks with anything of value.

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