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Habs loooking to move up in Draft

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Old
06-17-2008, 09:19 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
What's this? Surely poeple don't seriously think Gainey would trade a roster player to move up in the draft?? Unless it was for Stamkos?

Otherwise you guys are smokin' better stuff than I am; pass it over.

And while you're at it, Filatov WHO? The guy hasn't played a game in the NHL and with these Russkies you dunno what you're gonna get. Maybe a big fat nothing, if a RSL club ponies up.

No way, NONE, no way does BG throw away a guy like Higgins or Plekanec to move up in a frickin DRAFT. Just incredible what I read here sometimes.

HF boards = having a draft pick is better than a 1rst/2nd line center.

Here, all trades are gross underpayments when prospects or picks are dealt.

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06-17-2008, 10:01 PM
  #52
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I think every single team is looking to either trade up or down, depending how the draft goes. If there's a guy the really want, they'll try to move up and if there a number of guys they like equally when they're pick is up, they'll try to move down.

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06-17-2008, 10:16 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Wonder if it is Karlsson who he is trying for? But who do we give up? Difficult trade to make

ke
Interesting. Recently I've heard his name more and more. He's a Swedish defenceman, right? Drawn comparisons to Kronwall?

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06-17-2008, 10:22 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony View Post
wait....you wouldnt trade Pleks to get the 6th pick???

i love Pleky, but the 6th pick in a very strong top 10 draft is nothing to scoff at...

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06-17-2008, 10:27 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
If Filatov is there I'd do what it takes to make the deal. Guy is a STUD (and a right hand shot which we desperately need for our PP).

If they want a Center, we don't have much to offer in that area thouh, unless they're in love with Maxwell or Grabovski...
Don't know if this was mentionned, but in Gare Joyce's book, who followed the jackets scouts and got an inside look at the draft, does mention that they had Maxwell pretty high on thier list. So he could indeed seem interesting to them.

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06-17-2008, 10:51 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
Gross overpayment? 25th+Chipchura+O'Byrne for a superstar winger?
Yes. Unless you have a crystal ball and this draft pick is able to fill a full time roster position next year.

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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
Would you offer a 1st, Chipchura and O'Byrne for Datsyuk or Zetterberg?
Maybe, maybe not. But atleast I don't need a crystal ball to tell what either has to offer. They have made their name in the league already, and would obviously fit in the top two lines on our team without any concerns. An 18 or 19 year old draft pick though? Nonsense.

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06-17-2008, 11:00 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony View Post
wait....you wouldnt trade Pleks to get the 6th pick???

i love Pleky, but the 6th pick in a very strong top 10 draft is nothing to scoff at...
I don't see exactly why trading away Plekanec would benefit the Habs in the next 3-4 years.
According to many experts,the top 10 this year is considered strong and the option to trade up in order to get a higher selection in the draft is quite tempting,but dealing away a valuable,proven asset on our team and a excellent centre in Plekanec and the Habs immediately take a step back.We can't afford to let a centre of his calibre walk with our current situation down the middle.

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06-17-2008, 11:04 PM
  #58
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What's at the 6th spot? Boedker, Schenn, Wilson?

Filatov will be gone by the 5th.

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Old
06-17-2008, 11:12 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Trade Plekanec for a prospect? LOL. Way to move the team backwards. Though Filatov might turn out good, we already know Plakenec is good and progressing. It would be really dumb.
I'm not saying it will or it should happen...but here's a scenario :

- Timmins is HIGH on Filatov and thinks he's really close from Stamkos. He thinks he'll be a sure fire first liner who'll put at least 80 points a year. (so far, plausible)

- Gainey contacts Columbus, and to his surprise, the 6th pick is available. The thing is the price is obviously high, and the Jackets want a center. Plekanec is the only valuable one at this point, so he would have to be part of the deal. (still plausible)

- Gainey is intelligent and he won't want to trade one of his top 2 center for a prospect. That's where the Sundin rumor take place. If it's true, and Sundin do want to come here for two years, he would bring the team to a higher level, and while he does that, Filatov would be ready to be a really good center. (plausible, but hard to predict Sundin's intentions)

With all that in place, if Timmins is really confident about Filatov, I could see it as a possibility, and while I would hate losing Plekanec, getting a stud would be great. The bust potential isn't high with a guy like Filatov IMO. Without getting Sundin, or a replacement for Pleks, I would say no, but if we can get another center, it would be a yes from me.

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06-17-2008, 11:16 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
I'm not saying it will or it should happen...but here's a scenario :

- Timmins is HIGH on Filatov and thinks he's really close from Stamkos. He thinks he'll be a sure fire first liner who'll put at least 80 points a year. (so far, plausible)

- Gainey contacts Columbus, and to his surprise, the 6th pick is available. The thing is the price is obviously high, and the Jackets want a center. Plekanec is the only valuable one at this point, so he would have to be part of the deal. (still plausible)

- Gainey is intelligent and he won't want to trade one of his top 2 center for a prospect. That's where the Sundin rumor take place. If it's true, and Sundin do want to come here for two years, he would bring the team to a higher level, and while he does that, Filatov would be ready to be a really good center. (plausible, but hard to predict Sundin's intentions)

With all that in place, if Timmins is really confident about Filatov, I could see it as a possibility, and while I would hate losing Plekanec, getting a stud would be great. The bust potential isn't high with a guy like Filatov IMO. Without getting Sundin, or a replacement for Pleks, I would say no, but if we can get another center, it would be a yes from me.

I see where you're coming from,and this scenario is interesting in theory,but at this point it's essentially speculation.

Plekanec won't be moved.

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Old
06-17-2008, 11:19 PM
  #61
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The reason I'd be willing to package a Higgins (and say a Maxwell and a future pick) for Filatov is as follows:

We have plenty of great young LH forwards within the organization. This team desperately needs an elite level RH shot for the purpose of our PP and just to give a different look to netminders. Higgins might have plateaued, and for all we know may never be more than a 2nd tier player. Filatov is bursting with talent, and has absolutely no questions regarding his mind or character. By all accounts this guy is the absolute complete package, and will be a superstar in this league. Higgins is good, but he's replaceable within the organization.

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06-17-2008, 11:24 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
The reason I'd be willing to package a Higgins (and say a Maxwell and a future pick) for Filatov is as follows:

We have plenty of great young LH forwards within the organization. This team desperately needs an elite level RH shot for the purpose of our PP and just to give a different look to netminders. Higgins might have plateaued, and for all we know may never be more than a 2nd tier player. Filatov is bursting with talent, and has absolutely no questions regarding his mind or character. By all accounts this guy is the absolute complete package, and will be a superstar in this league. Higgins is good, but he's replaceable within the organization.
I'd definitely consider including Higgins before Plekanec for that very reason. Not that I'm super low on Higgins, nor that I'm super high on Pleks. But at a certain point "trying to improve" your team through trades and drafting can start to look too much like "rebuilding" which is DEFINITELY not the focus of Habs brass.

Any and all moves will be made to improve the team both next year AND in the future, not just one or the other.

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Old
06-17-2008, 11:27 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Stephen Locke View Post
I see where you're coming from,and this scenario is interesting in theory,but at this point it's essentially speculation.

Plekanec won't be moved.
It's PURE speculation, indeed. If it was to happen, we could be lucky because Columbus want to make the playoffs now, and not in a few years. That's why they might not want to wait for that 6th pick to become dominant.

If only we could win another lottery and have another high pick to select a future stud forward

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06-17-2008, 11:32 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I'd definitely consider including Higgins before Plekanec for that very reason. Not that I'm super low on Higgins, nor that I'm super high on Pleks. But at a certain point "trying to improve" your team through trades and drafting can start to look too much like "rebuilding" which is DEFINITELY not the focus of Habs brass.

Any and all moves will be made to improve the team both next year AND in the future, not just one or the other.
I'm well aware of the fact that Higgins hasn't had consistent and strong performances the last two years for some reasons,due to injuries holding him back(in 06-07)and a mitigated inconsistency last season.(but he still managed to put up decent production over the last three seasons IMO)However I think certain people are harsh on Higgins.I personally don't consider that his development has been finally completed and he reached his absolute peak.He can be considered as a very good trade asset, due to his potential and because he's a solid LH all-around winger, but I don't think this is the best option to consider in order to improve this squad.He has a lot to prove,let him stay here.He'll be valuable for this team in the long run and he'll be a consistent contributor.


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Old
06-17-2008, 11:33 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
I suppose it would be possible that the Habs could pull off a 3-way to get Columbus' 6th overall.

Something along the lines of :
to CBJ: Mike Cammaleri, LA's 2nd(48th), MTL's 1st
to LA: Kyle Chipchura, Ryan O'Byrne
to MTL: 6th overall

or
to CBJ: Mike Cammaleri, Kyle Chipchura, Ryan O'Byrne
to LA: Mtl's 1st
to MTL: 6th overall

thoughts?
and

Chipchura and Higgins aren't going anywhere. Too much character to contribute to what Bob is building.

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Old
06-17-2008, 11:42 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by zurg999 View Post
and

Chipchura and Higgins aren't going anywhere. Too much character to contribute to what Bob is building.
lol so true.

the funny thing is who knows who will be there at #6, Filatov could be gone and who knows if Timmins is that high on Pietrangelo, Bogosian, Schenn, Doughty or whoever is left available at #6.

Chipchura and O'Byrne will be able to step this year for us and help us contend for a cup, I don't get why people are looking to the future when we got a contending team right now. If we give up prospects and future picks to move up then I don't mind but to give up roster players who will make a difference this year just doesn't make sense at all.

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Old
06-17-2008, 11:43 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Stephen Locke View Post
I'm well aware of the fact that Higgins hasn't had consistent and strong performances the last two years for some reasons,due to injuries holding him back(in 06-07)and a mitigated inconsistency last season.(but he still managed to put up decent production over the last three seasons IMO)However I think certain people are harsh on Higgins.I personally don't consider that his development has been finally completed and he reached his absolute peak.He can be considered as a very good trade asset, due to his potential and because he's a solid LH all-around winger, but I don't think this is the best option to consider in order to improve this squad.He has a lot to prove,let him stay here.He'll be valuable for this team in the long run and he'll be a consistent contributors.
I agree...people saw too much in him when he had a few hot streaks. He's just not a first line winger, which don't mean that he's not a very good player. He has to understand his role and play in those limit. If he does that, he'll be really valuable to us. And if he play within his limit, he'll be more consistent, and probably put more points on the board. I want him to stay, that's for sure.

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Old
06-17-2008, 11:50 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I'd definitely consider including Higgins before Plekanec for that very reason. Not that I'm super low on Higgins, nor that I'm super high on Pleks. But at a certain point "trying to improve" your team through trades and drafting can start to look too much like "rebuilding" which is DEFINITELY not the focus of Habs brass.

Any and all moves will be made to improve the team both next year AND in the future, not just one or the other.
Exactly, I like Higgins but I think he is our most tradeable asset since he has great value to other teams, and we are capable of replacing him from within our organization. And a rare talent like Filatov is worth it. However what I'm reading is that he will likely go #2 at this point since there are no longer questions of him coming over. But if he were somehow there at 6, we'd be foolish not to offer Higgins in order to select the player some our saying is the best offensive player in the draft (including Stamkos). The guy has the talent to score 60-70 pts as a rookie.

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06-18-2008, 12:33 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by zurg999 View Post
and

Chipchura and Higgins aren't going anywhere. Too much character to contribute to what Bob is building.
Peca over Zetterberg.

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06-18-2008, 01:11 AM
  #70
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Peca over Zetterberg.
Way to overrate an 18 year old kid who has barely played any games on North American ice, let alone against NHL-calibre and sized players.

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06-18-2008, 05:30 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Dominant Hegemony View Post
wait....you wouldnt trade Pleks to get the 6th pick???

i love Pleky, but the 6th pick in a very strong top 10 draft is nothing to scoff at...
Off the top of my head, I would guess that Plekanec has turned out better to date than the average #6 pick over the long haul, so.....NO.

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06-18-2008, 05:36 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Trade Plekanec for a prospect? LOL. Way to move the team backwards. Though Filatov might turn out good, we already know Plakenec is good and progressing. It would be really dumb.
This is Hockey's Future Board. Plekanec was esteemed by some here ONLY while young and virgin, before showing any limitations whatsoever (such as we probably know now that he will never score 60 goals or get 120 points). Once a player has ARRIVED, he is ready to be discarded by many here for even YOUNGER, NEWER prospects.

This explains the treatment being accorded to Chris Higgins and Guillaume Latendresse, but now Plekanec (!!), that's ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
I'm not saying it will or it should happen...but here's a scenario :

- Timmins is HIGH on Filatov and thinks he's really close from Stamkos. He thinks he'll be a sure fire first liner who'll put at least 80 points a year. (so far, plausible)

- Gainey contacts Columbus, and to his surprise, the 6th pick is available. The thing is the price is obviously high, and the Jackets want a center. Plekanec is the only valuable one at this point, so he would have to be part of the deal. (still plausible)

- Gainey is intelligent and he won't want to trade one of his top 2 center for a prospect. That's where the Sundin rumor take place. If it's true, and Sundin do want to come here for two years, he would bring the team to a higher level, and while he does that, Filatov would be ready to be a really good center. (plausible, but hard to predict Sundin's intentions)

With all that in place, if Timmins is really confident about Filatov, I could see it as a possibility, and while I would hate losing Plekanec, getting a stud would be great. The bust potential isn't high with a guy like Filatov IMO. Without getting Sundin, or a replacement for Pleks, I would say no, but if we can get another center, it would be a yes from me.
The whole Sundin option in your message is a red herring. If the Habs spend millions to acquire a 70 point guy, it's not to give another 70 point guy away for a draft pick.

Think about the philosophy each move implies.

Getting Sundin = going for the cup NOW.

Trading Plekanec for a pick = tanking and rebuilding.

The two philosophies are incompatible.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 06-18-2008 at 01:17 PM.
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Old
06-18-2008, 07:00 AM
  #73
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Way to overrate an 18 year old kid who has barely played any games on North American ice, let alone against NHL-calibre and sized players.
Way to miss my point. I'd gladly trade our future 3rd line 'character' center for the chance of drafting someone that could emerge as a true superstar.
Everyone just about **** their pants at the thought of getting Kovalchuk, another 18 year old that had never played any games on North American ice. Sure, Filatov won't ever be as prolific a scorer as Kovalchuk, but he's up there in terms of potential.

And he's not some hit-or-miss Brendl, or a player like Zherdev that doesn't utilize his potential, he's a determined and charismatic guy like everyone's favourite Canadian boy Stamkos. And Timmins loves him.

His English is also as good as Russians that have been in the league 5 years.


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06-18-2008, 07:31 AM
  #74
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06-18-2008, 07:32 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Exactly, I like Higgins but I think he is our most tradeable asset since he has great value to other teams, and we are capable of replacing him from within our organization. And a rare talent like Filatov is worth it. However what I'm reading is that he will likely go #2 at this point since there are no longer questions of him coming over. But if he were somehow there at 6, we'd be foolish not to offer Higgins in order to select the player some our saying is the best offensive player in the draft (including Stamkos). The guy has the talent to score 60-70 pts as a rookie.
Tell me please, where is our 27 goal scoring replacement?

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