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Jagr needs to go.

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06-17-2008, 06:52 PM
  #1
battlerex99
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Jagr needs to go.

I will say this, I was originally adamant about us needing to re-sign Jagr, but the more I think about it the more I feel he needs to go. Yes, he was our leading scorer with 71 points, and that is worth $5 million a year in this league. However, consider the fact that he can only seem to play with Brandon Dubinsky. This automatically forces Chris Drury to become our $7 million 3rd center. Our first two centers need to be Gomez and Drury, in either order. By forcing Drury to play with less quality players, we're making his contract even worse than it is (I honestly believe that Chris Drury is a $6 million a year player... he led our team in goals despite playing with two rookies, Dawes and Callahan, all year. Put him with two higher quality players (I think he should stay with Dawes actually and get a new right winger) and just imagine the results).

The point of signing Gomez and Drury was that we wouldn't need high-priced, elite wingers, so let's start that trend now. Sign a couple of less-heralded guys like Michael Ryder and Niklas Hagman and then focus on the defense. Jagr's points can easily be replaced.

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06-17-2008, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battlerex99 View Post

The point of signing Gomez and Drury was that we wouldn't need high-priced, elite wingers, so let's start that trend now. Sign a couple of less-heralded guys like Michael Ryder and Niklas Hagman and then focus on the defense. Jagr's points can easily be replaced.
Are you sure about that? I would have thooght that the point of signing Gomez and Drury is to get elite wingers to play with your elite centres, thus giving you elite lines with which to win championships

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06-17-2008, 07:20 PM
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This team will not make the playoffs if Jagr is not resigned. Gomez and Drury can't carry this team.

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06-17-2008, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by drcameraman View Post
This team will not make the playoffs if Jagr is not resigned. Gomez and Drury can't carry this team.
I agree with this with the only condition being that if we didnt sign Jags, but some how ended up with Hossa I think we would be alright.

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06-17-2008, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by battlerex99 View Post
I will say this, I was originally adamant about us needing to re-sign Jagr, but the more I think about it the more I feel he needs to go. Yes, he was our leading scorer with 71 points, and that is worth $5 million a year in this league. However, consider the fact that he can only seem to play with Brandon Dubinsky. This automatically forces Chris Drury to become our $7 million 3rd center. Our first two centers need to be Gomez and Drury, in either order. By forcing Drury to play with less quality players, we're making his contract even worse than it is (I honestly believe that Chris Drury is a $6 million a year player... he led our team in goals despite playing with two rookies, Dawes and Callahan, all year. Put him with two higher quality players (I think he should stay with Dawes actually and get a new right winger) and just imagine the results).

The point of signing Gomez and Drury was that we wouldn't need high-priced, elite wingers, so let's start that trend now. Sign a couple of less-heralded guys like Michael Ryder and Niklas Hagman and then focus on the defense. Jagr's points can easily be replaced.
By signing guys like Michael Ryder and Hagman your only adding more Nigel Dawes and Ryan Callahan's to the team (who you previously just bashed).

Production wise, they're hardly a tickle away from eachother.

If your basing it line-wise then you'll have a problem with it, but our "order of centers" does not matter. It's how the team meshes as that set of players. Just because Brandon Dubinsky is playing with Jaromir Jagr does not make him a #1 Center because he doesn't have the playing ability or TOI to call himself that. That's Gomez, Drury that take up the top two TOI to call themselves the top two centers.

It's all about TOI, and Brandon Dubinsky won't see above 20 minutes a night this year while Gomer and Dru will see that quite often.

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06-17-2008, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by drcameraman View Post
This team will not make the playoffs if Jagr is not resigned. Gomez and Drury can't carry this team.
100% agree

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06-17-2008, 07:47 PM
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Hey guys, new to the boards, but not to hockey. Just wanted to say this team right now without Jagr will have a tough time. Although he doesn't score as much as he once did, he is still a force. He draws people too him, makes other teams focus on him more than others. Im not sure that other players on this team right now are ready for the responsibility that he has.

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06-17-2008, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlue68 View Post
Hey guys, new to the boards, but not to hockey. Just wanted to say this team right now without Jagr will have a tough time. Although he doesn't score as much as he once did, he is still a force. He draws people too him, makes other teams focus on him more than others. Im not sure that other players on this team right now are ready for the responsibility that he has.
welcome....and please forgive the awkwardness of threads like "lets not resign our best, most game breaking player"

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06-17-2008, 08:19 PM
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Losing Jagr will greatly hurt our chances in making the playoffs....you think if we add Ryder (who was brutal this season) and Hagman that we will be the same..or better?

Your forgetting that everytime Jagr is on the ice so is the other teams TOP defenseman, so even if Jagr isn't scoring, he is still keeping top pairs from playing against Gomez's line and Dru's line. That alone is huge.

Then add the fact Jagr is still our leading point getter, and was by far our most effective player in the playoffs.....

It will just be silly not to get him resigned this year....we need him until we are able to replace him, and nobody this UFA year can do that (Sorry, not paying Hossa 9 million).

Ive been a HUGE Sather fan since the trade deadline before the lockout, but so far, he has been brutal this offseason..I really hope things change before July 1st (which they can with a snap of a finger if he wants)....so I still have hope Slats knows what he is doing.

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06-17-2008, 08:39 PM
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honestly, as much as i want to make the playoffs with jagr, i think its time to move on....i just dont see the rangers as a legitimate SC contender next year with jagr...i say move on and build the team around the great all-around play of the high-quality centers the rangers have......i understand the arguments here about how jagr is the most game-breaking player on the team, and i agree, however sometimes i feel like the team watches him too much and i feel like certain players may step up without him, and the others who dont(or who maybe shy away) should be let go....i am not saying the rangers will be a powerhouse next year, however i would rather see some of the younger players get more time and see if sather can pull a trade for a winger and concentrate on signing a couple quality defenseman which i think will not only help the defense but the offense as well as i have posted in other threads....i just feel like signing jagr is a stopgap and i would rather see what the rest of the team can do...plus the fact that the team can save money and put is elsewhere

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06-17-2008, 11:57 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by battlerex99 View Post

The point of signing Gomez and Drury was that we wouldn't need high-priced, elite wingers
It was? I thought the point was to have quality centers to set up the high elite wingers.

Last year was last year.

Jagr certainly deserves another contract. Hes been a good Ranger. Good for the Franchise, good for the team. The whole team went into a slump last year. When you change 3 centers there are adjustment issues. It was more than they expected.

This season will be better. Even with a meh regular season without Jagr the Rangers miss the playoffs.

I dont know what Jaromir Jagr "needs" but if he wants to play in the NHL he has welcome home in NYC

He is the Captain. Have Faith

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06-18-2008, 12:02 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i understand the arguments here about how jagr is the most game-breaking player on the team, and i agree, however sometimes i feel like the team watches him too much and i feel like certain players may step up without him
Who stepped up on the Pens when he left Pittsburgh? Mmmm lean years until Crosby

Who stepped up when he left Washington? Mmmm lean years until Ovechkin


Jagr is not an easy guy to replace. People forget what an amazing hockey player Jagr is. I know hes 36. He still should be resigned. There is no immediate replacement for #68. Players like that just dont come around often and you have to be REALLY REALLY bad to land one in the draft.

Jagr, despite a drop in production, was not the problem last year or in the playoffs.

There are more pressing holes to fill imo.

The real question should be WHO replaces Shanny on the 2nd line. Thats the spot that needs to be upgraded. Jagrs spot, there is no upgrade available.

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06-18-2008, 12:43 AM
  #13
battlerex99
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Originally Posted by Marc Staal View Post
By signing guys like Michael Ryder and Hagman your only adding more Nigel Dawes and Ryan Callahan's to the team (who you previously just bashed).

Production wise, they're hardly a tickle away from eachother.

If your basing it line-wise then you'll have a problem with it, but our "order of centers" does not matter. It's how the team meshes as that set of players. Just because Brandon Dubinsky is playing with Jaromir Jagr does not make him a #1 Center because he doesn't have the playing ability or TOI to call himself that. That's Gomez, Drury that take up the top two TOI to call themselves the top two centers.

It's all about TOI, and Brandon Dubinsky won't see above 20 minutes a night this year while Gomer and Dru will see that quite often.
Hmm... I never really thought about it that way before. Consider my opinion changed. Jagr stays

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06-18-2008, 12:59 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
Who stepped up on the Pens when he left Pittsburgh? Mmmm lean years until Crosby

Who stepped up when he left Washington? Mmmm lean years until Ovechkin


Jagr is not an easy guy to replace. People forget what an amazing hockey player Jagr is. I know hes 36. He still should be resigned. There is no immediate replacement for #68. Players like that just dont come around often and you have to be REALLY REALLY bad to land one in the draft.

Jagr, despite a drop in production, was not the problem last year or in the playoffs.

There are more pressing holes to fill imo.

The real question should be WHO replaces Shanny on the 2nd line. Thats the spot that needs to be upgraded. Jagrs spot, there is no upgrade available.
Come on now, that's a mischaracterization. They built that team to suit him and he disappeared, so they intentionally blew up the team in a slow rebuild. It's not as if they tried to replace Jagr and failed. For the Pens, it was about the money, so they wouldn't have been able to afford replacing him. The Rangers aren't running low on money, and I can't see them ever going through a slow rebuild (whether it'd be a good idea or not, I can't see it happening in that market) so they could probably replace Jagr if they had to.

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06-18-2008, 01:14 AM
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Not signing Jagr would mean taking a step back in 08-09. I think we'd have a much harder time making the playoffs. In the long run it might be beneficial as it would likely improve our draft position next year and it would put us in much better position to make a move on a LeCavalier if TB continues to stink. Truthfully I don't think I'd be all that jazzed about getting hammered next season though. Sometimes taking a step back is the way you eventually start moving forward. Tough call. Marian Hossa though is only a consolation prize--signing him takes us out of the market for even higher profile free agents that may become available after this year like LeCavalier, Nash, Kovalchuk. In that regard I'd rather wait and let someone else sign Hossa. As for Ryder--a healthy scratch during the Canadiens playoffs this season might tell you something. I don't think I'd sign him either.

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06-18-2008, 03:37 AM
  #16
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can someone pls list the players that could be available and who are superior to Jagr and their price tag. I would really like to know what's out there in the market.
Vinny?

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06-18-2008, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
Who stepped up on the Pens when he left Pittsburgh? Mmmm lean years until Crosby

Who stepped up when he left Washington? Mmmm lean years until Ovechkin



Jagr is not an easy guy to replace. People forget what an amazing hockey player Jagr is. I know hes 36. He still should be resigned. There is no immediate replacement for #68. Players like that just dont come around often and you have to be REALLY REALLY bad to land one in the draft.

Jagr, despite a drop in production, was not the problem last year or in the playoffs.

There are more pressing holes to fill imo.

The real question should be WHO replaces Shanny on the 2nd line. Thats the spot that needs to be upgraded. Jagrs spot, there is no upgrade available.
so your saying if we get rid of Jagr, in a few seasons we'll have the next Crosby/Ovechkin...?

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06-18-2008, 07:26 AM
  #18
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The FA list blows.........Jagr is needed for one more yr

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06-18-2008, 08:01 AM
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I can't imagine that Sather wants to enter the new season without a superstar winger like Jagr. Just doesn't make sense. The Rangers have the cap space, I'm not sure how tight it would be but they have the space.

However, he hasn't been signed yet, apparently not even given an offer. And he has made it clear that playing with the Rangers is his number one choice.

That leads me to believe that Jagr is option number two (three?), and Sather plans to only sign Jagr if option number one doesn't materialize. Either Sather is thinking of a trade (unlikely) or he plans to make an offer to Hossa on July 1. I'd say 95% chance that Hossa is in his crosshairs.

I have mixed feelings. Jagr has given everything to the Rangers the past three seasons, and was critical to our success. However his regular season performance has declined every year. Even if his performance this playoffs was heroic, it couldn't get the job done - not his fault but it wasn't enough. And I wouldn't expect better next year.

Emotionally, I wan't Jagr to go out on his own terms. But Hossa is 7 years younger, is probably more dominant than Jagr next season because of that, and might be a better fit with the other forwards on the team. I hope he isn't offered an insane contract because that would tie our hands for years.

There is also a possibility that Sather gets Hossa, re-signs others, determines his cap, and offers Jagr a contract for one year based on what is left. It isn't his style to lowball offers though - notice that Shanahan got a 32% raise this past season as compared to the previous. Hmm.... I like this option best of all

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06-18-2008, 08:12 AM
  #20
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Come on now, that's a mischaracterization. They built that team to suit him and he disappeared, so they intentionally blew up the team in a slow rebuild. It's not as if they tried to replace Jagr and failed. For the Pens, it was about the money, so they wouldn't have been able to afford replacing him. The Rangers aren't running low on money, and I can't see them ever going through a slow rebuild (whether it'd be a good idea or not, I can't see it happening in that market) so they could probably replace Jagr if they had to.
With who? My point is that Jagr is not really easily replaceable with an equal player. There are few equals to #68 and if they are already in the NHL the price is too high. You basically have to draft a Superstar of an era to replace him and that will take a lottery pick and some luck. Bad luck followed by good luck.


Rangers may have all the $$$ in the world they still have to work within the same Cap as everyone else

And you are right, the Rangers dont have the stomach to really suck that bad to get the 1st pick in a draft.

There best bet would be to gamble on which team will suck that bad this year and overpay them for their 1st rounder next season.


Other than that the best course is to re-sign Jagr and continue to improve the bigger holes.

Wingers for Gomez, Better D Men

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06-18-2008, 08:19 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n_a_c View Post
I can't imagine that Sather wants to enter the new season without a superstar winger like Jagr. Just doesn't make sense. The Rangers have the cap space, I'm not sure how tight it would be but they have the space.

However, he hasn't been signed yet, apparently not even given an offer. And he has made it clear that playing with the Rangers is his number one choice.

That leads me to believe that Jagr is option number two (three?), and Sather plans to only sign Jagr if option number one doesn't materialize. Either Sather is thinking of a trade (unlikely) or he plans to make an offer to Hossa on July 1. I'd say 95% chance that Hossa is in his crosshairs.

I have mixed feelings. Jagr has given everything to the Rangers the past three seasons, and was critical to our success. However his regular season performance has declined every year. Even if his performance this playoffs was heroic, it couldn't get the job done - not his fault but it wasn't enough. And I wouldn't expect better next year.

Emotionally, I wan't Jagr to go out on his own terms. But Hossa is 7 years younger, is probably more dominant than Jagr next season because of that, and might be a better fit with the other forwards on the team. I hope he isn't offered an insane contract because that would tie our hands for years.

There is also a possibility that Sather gets Hossa, re-signs others, determines his cap, and offers Jagr a contract for one year based on what is left. It isn't his style to lowball offers though - notice that Shanahan got a 32% raise this past season as compared to the previous. Hmm.... I like this option best of all
3 years ago we questioned Jagr aptitude for the job. IMO he fulfilled the role as team leader with flying colours.

You won't find a more opaque player than Hossa......Yes nice streaky scorer but when he vanishes on the ice - he is gone. I can't imagine Hossa morphing into a team leader in NYC.

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06-18-2008, 08:37 AM
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I'm not a Hossa expert, but I agree that he doesn't seem to be a great team leader. I think that Jagr showed a lot more guts and determination in the playoffs than Hossa.

So I'm not saying I hope the Rangers sign Hossa, I just think Sather intends to.

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06-18-2008, 08:42 AM
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I'm not a Hossa expert, but I agree that he doesn't seem to be a great team leader. I think that Jagr showed a lot more guts and determination in the playoffs than Hossa.

So I'm not saying I hope the Rangers sign Hossa, I just think Sather intends to.

I also don't know much about Hossa's leadership skills but comparing his first post season t his second is night and day. Plus he didnt do it all because of Crosby. His playoff performance makes Hossa a very viable option for teams looking for a leader.

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06-18-2008, 08:45 AM
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This team will not make the playoffs if Jagr is not resigned. Gomez and Drury can't carry this team.
wow, so quick to say.

Might as well not even watch then if he doesnt sign.

I've been saying it since they shook hands in Pittsburgh. The Rangers should move away from Jagr if they want to help this team long term. Yeah he might help next season - but do you really think he'll take a one year deal?

Sather is waiting this out for that exact reason. He doesnt want to sign him to a 2-year or more deal. Neither would I. Who wants a 38 year old Jagr in 2010, that you have to piece together a team around when you've already spilled over into the third years of Drury and Gomez's contracts - without giving THEM the supporting cast they need to better the team?

Let's face it. Sather rolled out the red-carpet for Drury and Gomez and overpaid to get them. Thats said and done. I'm not going to complain about their contracts, thats already been discussed before. The reality is that you HAVE those contracts on the team and they are invested in your top two CENTERS. Common sense is to build around the middle up front. You gotta give these guys what they need so you arent left finally patching a team together around them 4 years into their contracts. Thats a waste to me. A total waste.

Any team Jaromir Jagr is on is HIS team. Whether you like it or not. Whether you agree with that notion or not. Its HIS team. Straka's retirement hinges on whether or not Jagr comes back (why he can't make his own decisions is a whole different story) Rucinsky has stated he would only play in the NHL with the Rangers if those two re-signed. Neither is even close to a lock to sign here if Jagr does but I guarantee this... SOMEONE will be signed to compliment Jagrs style of play.

A big word around here last season was "DEFER". Everyone on the ice was DEFERRING to Jagr. Even strength. On the Powerplay. In Practice. Off the ice. On the street. In the supermarket...
Everywhere.

You know damn well if Jagr is signed (most likely for two years) Sather will have to do whats best for Jagr and thats surrounding him with complimentary players that fit HIS needs, NOT the teams needs. Its more about what direction or style this team is heading in, and less about what Jagr brings to the table. Everyone seems to forget that for long stretches of the last season, Jagr wasn't putting up any numbers. Lines where all over the place. It happened in cycles until they finally found Dubinsky for him. But thats not the answer folks. Just because Jagr had a very good ending to the year does not suggest he will be like that right out of the gate or for over 75% of the next two seasons. Fans WILL regret it if they sign him. Slowly but surely, mark my words.

Now some of those who really want Jagr back will probably ask the question.... Who do you replace him with smart-ass?? The answer is this:

You don't, yet.

You could replace him with a guy like Hossa, but i dont think that will happen. He will cost too much, and who even knows if he even wants to play in NYC. So why NOT sign Jagr ? For all the reasons above and this - You get creative through trades and lower-tier signings that give you enough room to go after someone in July of 2009 or later. To me thats a better gamble to take then if you sign Jagr for 2 years. Not only will you have more cap room (if they allow themselves to), but a better idea of where the NHL stands financially (cap increase or not).

Next season, most of us are expecting a step back possibly. Then why have Jagr bridge a season or two when you can start whatever it is you envision this team being NOW.

Either way, its all about complimenting the young players you have worked so hard to bring along and the two centers you hit a homerun with on July 1, 2007. The Rangers would be taking the easy way out by signing Jagr, and thats exactly what was done wrong in the past.

Let me ask you this - If Jagr was on the Capitals or the Blue Jackets or the Kings this entire time - and he was just a plain free agent at 36 - would you sign him to a two or three year deal given the direction this team is heading in and the past summers the Rangers have post 1994?? Think about it.


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Old
06-18-2008, 09:39 AM
  #25
Nich
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i think we need to sign jagr for one more year

don't resign shanny
and don't resign avery for anything over 3
trade prucha and backman to upgrade picks or maybe another winger
sign orpik

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