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Old
06-18-2008, 10:06 AM
  #26
Bluenote13
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Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers View Post
Whats everyone's thoughts on Coleborne? I saw on tsn's profiles they compared him to Joe Thornton, pretty lofty comparison.
They only compared him to Joe cause he's big and is more of a playmaker. I'm hoping we don't take him. That size is tempting but if he used it wouldnt he be a top ten pick?

I prefer Cuma over Yann Sauve, I think Cuma's a smarter overall player.

I can't understand why anyone would think have an abundance of puck movers on the blueline is a bad thing. Maybe we shouldnt have drafted Zubov cause we had Leetch?

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06-18-2008, 10:12 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
They only compared him to Joe cause he's big and is more of a playmaker. I'm hoping we don't take him. That size is tempting but if he used it wouldnt he be a top ten pick?

I prefer Cuma over Yann Sauve, I think Cuma's a smarter overall player.

I can't understand why anyone would think have an abundance of puck movers on the blueline is a bad thing. Maybe we shouldnt have drafted Zubov cause we had Leetch?
it's because we need grit so badly that people want to draft it.... I just hope Sather isn't that dumb. Even if we drafted grit now that person probably won't be NHL ready for at least 2 years, probably more knowing how the Rangers don't like to rush prospects now. Who knows who we will have signed by then, or even how the game is played/called by then. Again, draft by skill not size. You can always teach players how to play defense, you can't teach skill. Also players will grow, and fill out more.

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06-18-2008, 10:14 AM
  #28
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Most of the D the Rangers have now are effective at moving the puck out of the zone, and even up ice if needed. The Rangers really went hard for two-way defensemen, and that's what most of their young players are. So I don't see the need for a puck lugging defenseman to be as big as for a defenseman who can really solidify the backline with some nastiness and all of that. Of course he'd still have to be competent with the puck, though.

And I'm less worried about the D and more worried about offense because there are simply more slots on offense that need to be filled by guys who can score.

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06-18-2008, 10:17 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
Here's who was left on the board:

Eberle
Cuma
Gratchev
Carlson
Gardiner
Sauve
Pickard
Karlsson
Dalpe
Ness

I'd take any of the names in bold over Robak.
Especially Eberle.

If my guys Tedenby, Gustafsson, and Del Zotto are taken and Eberle is still on the board at #20 the Rangers better NOT pass on him. He has a chance to be a real good one. It would be a huge mistake to pass on him. He has a ton of skill.

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06-18-2008, 10:17 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers View Post
Whats everyone's thoughts on Coleborne? I saw on tsn's profiles they compared him to Joe Thornton, pretty lofty comparison.
I think someone grabs Colbourne in the top 15. More specifically the Hawks. They could use a little size up front, and if this guy is as good a skater/puck handler as they say, it will be interesting to see him worked into the top 6 over there. They have a tremendous amount of talent already, I think they are a good risk/reward candidate to match up with assets a guy like Colbourne might bring.

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06-18-2008, 10:19 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Most of the D the Rangers have now are effective at moving the puck out of the zone, and even up ice if needed. The Rangers really went hard for two-way defensemen, and that's what most of their young players are. So I don't see the need for a puck lugging defenseman to be as big as for a defenseman who can really solidify the backline with some nastiness and all of that. Of course he'd still have to be competent with the puck, though.

And I'm less worried about the D and more worried about offense because there are simply more slots on offense that need to be filled by guys who can score.
I'd have to respectfully disagree w/ you here. I think the Rangers dmen were among the worst at passing and moving the puck this season. All they did was chip it up the boards. They rarely ever created odd man rushes w/ good passes, and frequently made bad passes that led to oddman rushes going the other way. Their best passing Dman was Malik who definately isn't coming back. We need a good passing dman who can lead a breakout. I don't think we have one at all.

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06-18-2008, 10:19 AM
  #32
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I want size, grit and highly skilled offensive players too, who doesn't?

But when it comes to the draft you have to take the best player you think is on the board. He becomes and asset, and if down the line you need to trade for grit or the latest offensive player thats on the trading block you have a valuable chip to use.

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06-18-2008, 10:20 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
I think someone grabs Colbourne in the top 15. More specifically the Hawks. They could use a little size up front, and if this guy is as good a skater/puck handler as they say, it will be interesting to see him worked into the top 6 over there. They have a tremendous amount of talent already, I think they are a good risk/reward candidate to match up with assets a guy like Colbourne might bring.
Posted a mock on the MD board, and had Colborne going 13 to Buffalo. They like to draft risks, JC is a big offensive forward for a Buffalo system that is small and lacking in legit prospects.

CHI is more of a consensus type of team, I can see them taking either Myers/Beach, whoever falls.

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06-18-2008, 10:24 AM
  #34
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So is it safe to say Ennis is going to drop far?

I would it if we traded down and got back a second 2nd round picks.

Giving us one 1st and two 2nd round picks.

With the 2nd second round pick I'd take Ennis. I like that kid's speed and skill. Just put him through intense leg and core strengthening training, and he would be fine. He is an incredible skater, has elite puck skills and agility. His size is his only draw back, and i would be willing to gamble on that. All you gotta do is put him with a big center and a decently sized winger.

I think he is one of the most underrated in the draft.


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Old
06-18-2008, 10:25 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
So is it safe to say Ennis is going to drop far?

I would it if we traded down and got back two 2nd round picks.

Giving us one 1st and three 2nd round picks.

With the 2nd or 3rd second round pick I'd take Ennis. I like that kid's speed and skill. Just put him through intense leg and core strengthening training, and he would be fine. He is an incredible skater, has elite puck skills and agility. His size is his only draw back, and i would be willing to gamble on that. All you gotta do is put him with a big center and a decently sized winger.

I think he is one of the most underrated in the draft.
How do we trade down and get TWO 2nd rounders and still have a first??

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06-18-2008, 10:30 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I want size, grit and highly skilled offensive players too, who doesn't?

But when it comes to the draft you have to take the best player you think is on the board. He becomes and asset, and if down the line you need to trade for grit or the latest offensive player thats on the trading block you have a valuable chip to use.
I wrote a whole thing about this in another thread. People want size so badly they are willing to sacrifice everything else that makes a hockey player a good hockey player.

Size is good, if the rest of the package is good. Hands, speed, skill, agility, and character.

I take a guy like Tedenby, who has no character issues to go along with his immense level of speed and skill over a lumbering, slow, gritty big guy with questionable skill and character, 100% of the time.

Size is ONLY good when the rest oft he package is there. Otherwise it just makes the pick a waste.

You draft based on SKILL. Not based on size. 17/18 year old kids will grow. But if a guy has limited skill that WONT improve.

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06-18-2008, 10:31 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
How do we trade down and get TWO 2nd rounders and still have a first??
My mistake i meant a second 2nd round pick.

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06-18-2008, 10:33 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
How do we trade down and get TWO 2nd rounders and still have a first??
Trade our #20 with LA for their #28 & #32. Hmmm, but that leaves us two 2nds. I doubt they'd trade three picks to move up 8 spots.

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06-18-2008, 10:37 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
My mistake i meant a second 2nd round pick.
I wonder, would they do 28, 32, & 61 for #20? Or 28, 48, & 61?

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06-18-2008, 10:38 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
Trade our #20 with LA for their #28 & #32. Hmmm, but that leaves us two 2nds. I doubt they'd trade three picks to move up 8 spots.
I think LA would want to hang on to that #32 pick and give us #48 if we swap #20 for #28.

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06-18-2008, 10:40 AM
  #41
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Despite his size, I really hope we grab Aaron Ness at #20 (if none of the top wingers are available). I just have such a good feeling about the guy. Then grab Petrov in the second round!

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06-18-2008, 10:47 AM
  #42
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Despite his size, I really hope we grab Aaron Ness at #20 (if none of the top wingers are available). I just have such a good feeling about the guy. Then grab Petrov in the second round!
Petrov won't last until the 51st pick.

Ness is just a huge gamble defensively, not sure i'd want to take that bet.

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06-18-2008, 10:53 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Petrov won't last until the 51st pick.

Ness is just a huge gamble defensively, not sure i'd want to take that bet.
I'm hearing ranks of around 90th for Petrov right now, so I wouldn't be too sure about that. Then again, it's the NHL Draft so anything can happen. What about trading our first rounder to the Blues for both of their second rounders and taking Jared Staal and Petrov there. That could work methinks.

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06-18-2008, 10:55 AM
  #44
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All I know about any of these players comes from write-ups I've seen here and elsewhere. That said, the player I am most hoping falls to the Rangers (that has a somewhat realistic chance of doing so) is Mattias Tedenby. He sounds to me like a defensively aware Petr Prucha with a legitimate scoring touch. I love the Swedish style as well and it couldn't hurt to surround Henrik with more of his countrymen.

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06-18-2008, 10:57 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
I think LA would want to hang on to that #32 pick and give us #48 if we swap #20 for #28.
I was thinking that, too, but they have SOOO many picks this year. 13 or 15?

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06-18-2008, 11:04 AM
  #46
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I'd have to respectfully disagree w/ you here. I think the Rangers dmen were among the worst at passing and moving the puck this season. All they did was chip it up the boards. They rarely ever created odd man rushes w/ good passes, and frequently made bad passes that led to oddman rushes going the other way. Their best passing Dman was Malik who definately isn't coming back. We need a good passing dman who can lead a breakout. I don't think we have one at all.
A huge part of that is the system the Rangers play. The D chip it up the boards because thats' where the forwards are. Odd man breaks aren't usually created because the forwards are back playing D and collapsing in front of the net. Getting a strict puck mover isn't going to change that. He might be better at passing, but he's not going to have anyone to pass it to.

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06-18-2008, 11:10 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Wario Lemieux View Post
All I know about any of these players comes from write-ups I've seen here and elsewhere. That said, the player I am most hoping falls to the Rangers (that has a somewhat realistic chance of doing so) is Mattias Tedenby. He sounds to me like a defensively aware Petr Prucha with a legitimate scoring touch. I love the Swedish style as well and it couldn't hurt to surround Henrik with more of his countrymen.
I would have no problems with Tedenby, love his skating and speed. Plus he has goalscorers hands, a top two line winger most definitely. Doesn't seem to mind going into the traffic areas either.

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06-18-2008, 11:11 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
A huge part of that is the system the Rangers play. The D chip it up the boards because thats' where the forwards are. Odd man breaks aren't usually created because the forwards are back playing D and collapsing in front of the net. Getting a strict puck mover isn't going to change that. He might be better at passing, but he's not going to have anyone to pass it to.
Well with what you said is correct, I still don't think that we have the dmen capable of making good breakout passes. None of them showed any real passing skills when they did try breakout passes, and all were turnover prone (some more than others). I think if we did get a dman w/ good/great passing skills it will allow us to alter our game a little more where we can try to make those long passes. it will also help us on the PP, where it is more obvious that our dmen have no passing skills, b/c they didn't know how to thread any passes, and most of the time had trouble keeping pucks in the zone.

Our dmen really aren't good stickhandlers or passers, both of which are skills that are very hard to develop. Playing sound defensive hockey you can develop (we even go Jagr to play some defense for cris sakes), having good offensive skills and instincts you are born w/. Therefore I still think that w/ the top 2picks you go for the best offensive skilled players we can get. It can't hurt.

Just look at some of our picks that we chose b/c of their size. Jessiman, Graham. Skill will always triumph over size.

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06-18-2008, 11:12 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
I'd have to respectfully disagree w/ you here. I think the Rangers dmen were among the worst at passing and moving the puck this season. All they did was chip it up the boards. They rarely ever created odd man rushes w/ good passes, and frequently made bad passes that led to oddman rushes going the other way. Their best passing Dman was Malik who definately isn't coming back. We need a good passing dman who can lead a breakout. I don't think we have one at all.
I think it has to do with our forwards, too. We have speedy guys, but Gomer is a puck dragger; Dawes was still very new; Avery is too slow for a break-away; Jags & Shanny have lost a step. Who else has that break-a-way speed?

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06-18-2008, 11:20 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
I think it has to do with our forwards, too. We have speedy guys, but Gomer is a puck dragger; Dawes was still very new; Avery is too slow for a break-away; Jags & Shanny have lost a step. Who else has that break-a-way speed?
was just about to address this as well. This also goes to my point of you draft skill not size or grit. We have to play this boring bs, crap type system b/c frankly we don't have that many skill players. We have an aging Jagr, Gomez, Dawes. that's it. Drury isn't that highly skilled, his only real offinsive skill is being in the right place, at the right time. Which makes him a good scorer, but his actually skill levels ie shot, accuracy, passing acc, stickhandling really are only about avg.

I don't think Avery is too slow for a breakaway, I don't think he has the hockey sense for when to try for a breakaway.

Dubi has skills, but has to refine them more, which i think jagr will help him. But he still isn't a great passer by any means.

Fact is we really need to draft guys w/ the best skill, in this draft. Those high risk, high reward type players. We dont need 3rd liners, we need guys who will have the high skill. and I could care less about grit. Grit players are your bottom pairing dmen, and bottom line players and they are a dime a dozen.

Guys like Tedenby, Karlsson are high skill players who still can grow (physica height) b/c they are only 18. But they are already extremely highly skilled.

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