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Rumor/Speculation: Avery is a goner

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06-18-2008, 01:08 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by nyrangers23 View Post
who was 2nd in goals during the playoffs? who never takes off a shift an plays with his heart on his sleeve? he has played injured and he sticks up for his teamates. he brings something to the table that allot of players dont have. if we dont resign avery it will hurt us in big games when he is usually at his best
QFT, i think Avery will wait until Free Agency but he will see the teams that are intrested in him, and he'll like NY better i think hes getting 3.25 per year for 5 years

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06-18-2008, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
QFT, i think Avery will wait until Free Agency but he will see the teams that are intrested in him, and he'll like NY better i think hes getting 3.25 per year for 5 years
whateva it takes we just need him on this team. everyone who says he is not a top 6 foward i guess just doesnt understand that you dont need to be the most skillfull at your position, ect. the guy has a good shot, plays with intensity, goes in front of the net, should be used more on the pp, and he will stick up for anyone on the team. you cant have enough of those types of players

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06-18-2008, 01:16 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by nyrangers23 View Post
whateva it takes we just need him on this team. everyone who says he is not a top 6 foward i guess just doesnt understand that you dont need to be the most skillfull at your position, ect. the guy has a good shot, plays with intensity, goes in front of the net, should be used more on the pp, and he will stick up for anyone on the team. you cant have enough of those types of players
I think a legit Stanley Cup contender does not have a guy like Sean Avery playing on its top two lines.

And it's presumptuous to say that he'll take less because he likes NY. It's his first time out as a UFA going to look to cash in.

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06-18-2008, 01:17 PM
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I would argue that Avery does take a shift off. There are times when he is invisible on the ice. I like him, want him for the right price, but let's not turn him into Doug Gilmour, Brendan Shanahan, or Mark Messier.

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06-18-2008, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
I would argue that Avery does take a shift off. There are times when he is invisible on the ice. I like him, want him for the right price, but let's not turn him into Doug Gilmour, Brendan Shanahan, or Mark Messier.
nice to see Gilmour mentioned.... always loved him as a player.

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06-18-2008, 01:21 PM
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nice to see Gilmour mentioned.... always loved him as a player.
agreed with nice 2 see gilmore, im not trying to make him out to be like one of those players, more in the line of esa tik's or someone in that role. can score, is fiesty and finishes his checks

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06-18-2008, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
I would argue that Avery does take a shift off. There are times when he is invisible on the ice. I like him, want him for the right price, but let's not turn him into Doug Gilmour, Brendan Shanahan, or Mark Messier.
for the most part he plays hard every game and sticks up for his teammates. its not like he is jagr and takes off a whole season and just plays in the playoff's(im not complaining, just making a point)

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06-18-2008, 02:03 PM
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I just think that alot of you are underestimating the impact he has on this team's confidence. People are getting caught up in the numbers game, looking at the puzzle as a bunch of individual pieces instead of looking at the picture as a whole. When Avery is in the lineup the team has a swagger, an edge, and a level of confidence that is absent when he is. This team tends to take less crap from the other team, they turn the other cheek less, they stick up for themselves and others... they actually look like they don't deserve to be abused by the entire league.

Avery's number alone don't justify anything over $2.75m but it isn't often that a player elevates... something in each and every player. If Sather kicks in another 3/4 of a mil just to have that swagger, it's worth it.

Look at the last 2 cup winners, they had a take no s*** approach, they had an edge and an aggressiveness. Maybe they applied that attitude differently but you can't convince me that playing like a bunch of wimps will win anyone a cup, that's your common thread- and that is not how they play with Avery.

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06-18-2008, 02:12 PM
  #84
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Top 6 forwards do not grow on trees. We've got, as you correctly pointed out, shortage of that material. If Avery is not top 6, then who? Shanny may be back, but he is too slow for that. Dawes? Oh, my... If anyone believes that Dawes WILL EVER BE as skilled as Avery, keep dreaming. The only one with potential is Callahan, but he has to gain weight, the frame is there. Sather could pick one UFA, no more. Thus, we need Avery.
Shanny won't be back.

I never even mentioned Dawes or compared him to Avery.

If Sather picks (1) UFA and resigns Avery, he still has (2) holes to fill on the top (2) lines, hence the reason to spend as little as necessary on each position.

Ultimately, what brought the Rangers down had nothing to do with Sean Avery. It had to do with the absence of consistent offense and a defense that couldn't handle a Stanley Cup caliber offensive attack. Address those areas and it won't matter if Avery is in the lineup or not.

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06-18-2008, 02:14 PM
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I'm sorry, but you don't pay 3.5 million to a third line player just for that "edge." We're in a league with a salary cap. I'd rather save that 1.5 million and put it towards a player who's going to net me 30 goals then to put it towards a player who may be injury prone (3 injuries in one season) and puts up 15 goals, maybe 20 in a great season, but plays with an edge.

Avery will continue to have injury problems as his career progresses. With the kind of game he plays and with the way that everyone in the league hates him, people aren't going to shy off when they hit Sean Avery, they will hit him as hard as they can as often as they can. That stuff will take a toll on a person's body.

I wouldn't say that he's the kind of player who really impacts that physical game. Sure he hits guys and he agitates, which is great and all, but I'd rather a guy who will hit a guy and make him pay the price. Someone who's going to make someone think twice about roughing up a star player. Avery does not do that. No one is afraid of Avery.

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06-18-2008, 02:22 PM
  #86
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Don't give me any crap about the record with Avery in and out of our lineup. To me that is just an indication of our horrible depth and our lack of grit overall. He's never scored more than 15 goals in his career. That's a third liner at best. That's not worth more than $2 million in my book. Think about it, he was after $2 million in arbitration last year (which he didn't get, mind you). Then he had an injury riddled year in which he recorded 33 points. How is that worth a $1.5 million raise? How is that worth any raise? He's likely hit his ceiling already, so it's not like you're paying for potential...

Bye bye Avery!
Agree 100%. He didn't do anything this year to validate a $1.5+ million raise. And, as disgusted as everyone is that Sather isn't willing to give him the extra money you do realize that if Avery wanted to REALLY STAY IN NEW YORK he would take less money to play in Manhattan. Every years tons of players take huge pay cuts to stay where they want to play. Look at Modano, signed to $3.4 million a year to stay in Dallas, Brodeur signed at $5.2 million to stay in New Jersey. I think we can all agree teams would be throwing Brodeur millions more if he ever hit the free agent market.

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06-18-2008, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
I'm sorry, but you don't pay 3.5 million to a third line player just for that "edge." We're in a league with a salary cap. I'd rather save that 1.5 million and put it towards a player who's going to net me 30 goals then to put it towards a player who may be injury prone (3 injuries in one season) and puts up 15 goals, maybe 20 in a great season, but plays with an edge.

Avery will continue to have injury problems as his career progresses. With the kind of game he plays and with the way that everyone in the league hates him, people aren't going to shy off when they hit Sean Avery, they will hit him as hard as they can as often as they can. That stuff will take a toll on a person's body.

I wouldn't say that he's the kind of player who really impacts that physical game. Sure he hits guys and he agitates, which is great and all, but I'd rather a guy who will hit a guy and make him pay the price. Someone who's going to make someone think twice about roughing up a star player. Avery does not do that. No one is afraid of Avery.

Tell me where you can pay 1.5 for a guy who scores 30 goals a season

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06-18-2008, 02:24 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by nyrangers23 View Post
for the most part he plays hard every game and sticks up for his teammates. its not like he is jagr and takes off a whole season and just plays in the playoff's(im not complaining, just making a point)
And yet still remains more offensively potent than all those other players making millions of dollars and bust their ass.

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06-18-2008, 02:24 PM
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I just think that alot of you are underestimating the impact he has on this team's confidence. People are getting caught up in the numbers game, looking at the puzzle as a bunch of individual pieces instead of looking at the picture as a whole. When Avery is in the lineup the team has a swagger, an edge, and a level of confidence that is absent when he is. This team tends to take less crap from the other team, they turn the other cheek less, they stick up for themselves and others... they actually look like they don't deserve to be abused by the entire league.

Avery's number alone don't justify anything over $2.75m but it isn't often that a player elevates... something in each and every player. If Sather kicks in another 3/4 of a mil just to have that swagger, it's worth it.

Look at the last 2 cup winners, they had a take no s*** approach, they had an edge and an aggressiveness. Maybe they applied that attitude differently but you can't convince me that playing like a bunch of wimps will win anyone a cup, that's your common thread- and that is not how they play with Avery.
No one is questioning what he brings to the team. But...

I think you are not seeing the picture as a whole and only seeing it from the individual piece that is Avery, and not the whole which is the New York Rangers organization.

There is a salary cap. And 16 mil of that cap alone is wrapped up into 2 centers (Gomez, Drury) not to mention the 6+ mil in Lundqvist. And the 2+ mil deferred from Shanahan's contract. And the raises that Tyutin and Girardi got. Needing to resign Dawes, finding a backup goaltender, filling two holes back on defense...

There are 4 wing positions on the top two lines to fill on top of what i listed above. And some want to WASTE 2.75-3.5 on a third line player? because he brings gusto.

I'd rather spend 3.5 on a guy who will bury the puck, then waste it on a role player who can't keep his yap shut.

Again the whole picture is the New York Rangers, not Avery, not Jagr. I just assume say 'goodbye' to those two and bring in new players with skill and good character that won't handcuff us for the next 5 years.

Also, please keep in mind that Staal and Dubinsky will be due a raise soon. And we will need to pay Cherepanov and Sanguinetti soon too. Korpikoski is already making over 1mil.

We absolutely can not afford to keep Avery at the price tag he wants.

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06-18-2008, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
Tell me where you can pay 1.5 for a guy who scores 30 goals a season
Petr Prucha!

He'd didn't say spend 1.5 for a guy who can score 30 goals. He said he would take that money and put it towards that kind of guy.

A better question to me is what FA out there is a lock to score 30 goals? Besides Hossa.

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06-18-2008, 02:27 PM
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Tell me where you can pay 1.5 for a guy who scores 30 goals a season
I said put it towards, not sign a guy for 1.5.

If you're buying a TV for $1000, and you decide to save $300 from not doing something, and you would like to use that $300 instead to help pay for that TV, you could say that you are putting that $300 towards buying the TV. It doesn't mean you're going to buy the TV for $300.

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06-18-2008, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Petr Prucha!

He'd didn't say spend 1.5 for a guy who can score 30 goals. He said he would take that money and put it towards that kind of guy.

A better question to me is what FA out there is a lock to score 30 goals? Besides Hossa.
Ryder--HELL NO
Rolston--Hes way to old
Hossa--Gonna cost at least 8 per
thats about it, thats why i think we need to keep avery,he is a very good player and hes getting better every single year now. if you look at his stats in 2006-08 he had 18 goals, and this year Avery would of notched at least 20 if he didnt get his shoulder sperated.

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06-18-2008, 02:30 PM
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I said put it towards, not sign a guy for 1.5.

If you're buying a TV for $1000, and you decide to save $300 from not doing something, and you would like to use that $300 instead to help pay for that TV, you could say that you are putting that $300 towards buying the TV. It doesn't mean you're going to buy the TV for $300.
don't know why but I found this hysterical.

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06-18-2008, 02:31 PM
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Top 6 forwards do not grow on trees. We've got, as you correctly pointed out, shortage of that material. If Avery is not top 6, then who? Shanny may be back, but he is too slow for that. Dawes? Oh, my... If anyone believes that Dawes WILL EVER BE as skilled as Avery, keep dreaming. The only one with potential is Callahan, but he has to gain weight, the frame is there. Sather could pick one UFA, no more. Thus, we need Avery.
Skilled? I think you're confusing grit with skill. Dawes has the potential to be a very skilled top-six forward. In his rookie season he already put up nearly as many points as Avery did this year.

And yes, I'm aware Avery didn't play an entire season. Neither did Dawes.

That top-six material isn't restricted to our own talent pool. If we can't find it within our organization, that doesn't automatically mean "Time to resign Avery." Trades and the FA market are viable options as well.

Sather can pick one UFA? Where the hell did you come up with that? Sather could pick a dozen UFA's if he wanted to and trade away roster players to open up the slots.

What you want Sather to do, has no bearing on what he's actually going to do.

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06-18-2008, 02:31 PM
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No one is questioning what he brings to the team. But...

I think you are not seeing the picture as a whole and only seeing it from the individual piece that is Avery, and not the whole which is the New York Rangers organization.

There is a salary cap. And 16 mil of that cap alone is wrapped up into 2 centers (Gomez, Drury) not to mention the 6+ mil in Lundqvist. And the 2+ mil deferred from Shanahan's contract. And the raises that Tyutin and Girardi got. Needing to resign Dawes, finding a backup goaltender, filling two holes back on defense...

There are 4 wing positions on the top two lines to fill on top of what i listed above. And some want to WASTE 2.75-3.5 on a third line player? because he brings gusto.

I'd rather spend 3.5 on a guy who will bury the puck, then waste it on a role player who can't keep his yap shut.

Again the whole picture is the New York Rangers, not Avery, not Jagr. I just assume say 'goodbye' to those two and bring in new players with skill and good character that won't handcuff us for the next 5 years.

Also, please keep in mind that Staal and Dubinsky will be due a raise soon. And we will need to pay Cherepanov and Sanguinetti soon too. Korpikoski is already making over 1mil.

We absolutely can not afford to keep Avery at the price tag he wants.
Agreed

Dubinsky is a RFA after next season and Staal in two seasons. Bringing back Jagr for a season or possibly two won't hurt too much. However, I would be pretty sure that Avery would want at least three years. Avery is a high risk, IMO. We're not talking about signing him for one year here. It's a matter of investing that much money for three or more years in a player who we're not even sure how he'll play once he's under a long term contract and who there are doubts as to whether he can play another season without injuring himself as much as he did this past season due to the kind of game he plays.


BTW, to the guy who says Dawes won't ever be as good as Avery. Ummm... he's already better than him. Let's be honest. I wasn't a huge Dawes supporter at the beginning of the season, but come on now. The guy had a very good rookie season and will be a very good player by the time he gets to his late 20s.

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06-18-2008, 02:35 PM
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If Avery leaves because Slats offers him 500gs less than his own perceived value, then so be it.

Salary caps create very difficult decisions.

For Sean it comes down to what you believe his intangibles are worth.

Personally IF his rep in the lockeroom is spotty as some say then Glenn should try real hard to sign if for no more than one year. 2.9 sounds fair to me.

As much as I love what Sean brings to the table, I would run away as fast as I could if he is looking to sign with my club for the long term.

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06-18-2008, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Petr Prucha!

He'd didn't say spend 1.5 for a guy who can score 30 goals. He said he would take that money and put it towards that kind of guy.

A better question to me is what FA out there is a lock to score 30 goals? Besides Hossa.
No real locks.

However, you could go ahead and trade for Afinogenov. Whose contract expires after next season.

Huselius only made 1.4 this year and scored 25 this year, last year he scored 34. 30 the year before that. Perhaps we can get a bargain on him at around 3 per.

Maybe Ryder comes cheaper considering his down year, but he had back to back 30 goal seasons before this year.

Point is, there are much better options out there that pose more of a threat to put the puck in the net, then Avery.

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06-18-2008, 02:45 PM
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Skilled? I think you're confusing grit with skill. Dawes has the potential to be a very skilled top-six forward. In his rookie season he already put up nearly as many points as Avery did this year.

And yes, I'm aware Avery didn't play an entire season. Neither did Dawes.

That top-six material isn't restricted to our own talent pool. If we can't find it within our organization, that doesn't automatically mean "Time to resign Avery." Trades and the FA market are viable options as well.

Sather can pick one UFA? Where the hell did you come up with that? Sather could pick a dozen UFA's if he wanted to and trade away roster players to open up the slots.

What you want Sather to do, has no bearing on what he's actually going to do.
Not to mention 4 less goals in his rookie season then Avery's career high.

Dawes rookie year 14 goals.

Avery career high 18 goals.

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06-18-2008, 03:30 PM
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I would argue that Avery does take a shift off. There are times when he is invisible on the ice. I like him, want him for the right price, but let's not turn him into Doug Gilmour, Brendan Shanahan, or Mark Messier.
Bless your heart for pointing this out Forechecker. This is precisely what I DON'T like about Avery. I can get over the fact he's an azzhole (anyone who says he isn't needs to take the blinders off) because he's good for the team, but I saw too many shifts last season where he wasn't even trying. People accuse Jagr of taking shifts off or not backchecking or gliding back to his own zone or to the bench, but if you really watch Avery, he's just as guilty of that kind of thing -- the difference is that he hasn't earned that right with a Hall of Fame career. But because fans love the energy and excitement he brings when he's out there giving 100%, they ignore the shifts where he doesn't show up.

I want him back, but not at anything over $3m or for longer than 2-3 years. I see him wearing out his welcome eventually, and don't want to be stuck with a bigger contract long-term.

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06-18-2008, 03:45 PM
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2.8-3 million as i like him as a player but i wouldnt pay him more than 3.....even that is a lot for a 3rd liner

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