HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Jagr needs to go.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-18-2008, 03:04 PM
  #51
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
I agree.

After the team started playing better i had hope, since what could we do after the deadline passed? Just support the players we had.

But i was really hoping for a fire sale of sorts. I think we could have gotten back the kind of players to turn the team around completely next year, much like what Philly did the year before.

You saw what San Jose gave up for Campbell? Campbell got a 1st rounder and Bernier. We could have pulled off those kinds of trades.

Rozsival, Mara, Malik, Straka, Shanahan, Avery, Valiquette, and if you wanted an extreme... Jagr.

Image the return we could have gotten?

Wasted opportunity, IMO.
i know, its a painful reminder. not doing this was worse than the 2003 draft debacle. but you can't change the past... just hope Sather doesnt f up the future.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 03:06 PM
  #52
KreiMeARiver
Have Confidence
 
KreiMeARiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,511
vCash: 500
Personally I would like to keep Jagr for his offense, but I would like to see another Captain. So I'm torn.

KreiMeARiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 03:07 PM
  #53
Fataldogg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,896
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The problem I see is this: how much more are the Rangers really going to get out of Jagr next year? Or how much less might be a better question. You're still looking at a 36 year old guy to carry the bulk of the offense. And while you are hoping that Jagr can match his production from last seasons other team's top players are going to get better as they are only entering their primes while Jagr is moving further away from his.
You never know he might surprise you. Do you think many people were expecting him to score 123 points with us his first full season or register 96 points in his second season with a bum shoulder? I think if you look at his career this is the "odd" season out. He has surprised us before I see no reason to believe that he can't surprise us again with a 90+ point season, especially with Dubinsky centering him.

Fataldogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 03:16 PM
  #54
squishy
Registered User
 
squishy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,149
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
Personally I would like to keep Jagr for his offense, but I would like to see another Captain. So I'm torn.
I'll never understand why anyone who's never been in the locker room or on the ice with the team gives a crap about who the captain is. You have no idea how he is received in the room, or that anyone else would be better received by the team as it is built now. Do you really think a different captain will suddenly transform this team into something it currently is not?

Seriously, the "who should be the captain" debate has to be the most overvalued amongst Ranger fans. Having a letter on your chest doesn't suddenly make you a better leader or more important voice in the locker room anymore than not having a letter prevents you from being a good leader. You earn the respect of your teammates and of the officials through your actions, not through a letter on your jersey.

squishy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 03:32 PM
  #55
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
I agree.

After the team started playing better i had hope, since what could we do after the deadline passed? Just support the players we had.

But i was really hoping for a fire sale of sorts. I think we could have gotten back the kind of players to turn the team around completely next year, much like what Philly did the year before.

You saw what San Jose gave up for Campbell? Campbell got a 1st rounder and Bernier. We could have pulled off those kinds of trades.

Rozsival, Mara, Malik, Straka, Shanahan, Avery, Valiquette, and if you wanted an extreme... Jagr.

Image the return we could have gotten?

Wasted opportunity, IMO.
agreed, at least IMO, sather should have traded shanahan, mara and malik and allowed prucha and baranka to play for the remainder of the season.....i also wouldve liked to trade rozsival however there woulde had to be a good solid young nhl defender coming back....either way i wouldve been happy getting good prospects and picks back for most of the UFA's, and before anyone says it, i said this at the deadline as well as i didnt like the team as it was

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 03:38 PM
  #56
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,780
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fataldogg View Post
You never know he might surprise you. Do you think many people were expecting him to score 123 points with us his first full season or register 96 points in his second season with a bum shoulder? I think if you look at his career this is the "odd" season out. He has surprised us before I see no reason to believe that he can't surprise us again with a 90+ point season, especially with Dubinsky centering him.
"There are few 600 goal scorers. There are even fewer 700 goal scorers."

Let's not let two good rounds in the playoffs blind us from a regular season that was 26 points lower than the previous season. And 52 points less than his 123 point season.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 03:38 PM
  #57
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
I'll never understand why anyone who's never been in the locker room or on the ice with the team gives a crap about who the captain is. You have no idea how he is received in the room, or that anyone else would be better received by the team as it is built now. Do you really think a different captain will suddenly transform this team into something it currently is not?

Seriously, the "who should be the captain" debate has to be the most overvalued amongst Ranger fans. Having a letter on your chest doesn't suddenly make you a better leader or more important voice in the locker room anymore than not having a letter prevents you from being a good leader. You earn the respect of your teammates and of the officials through your actions, not through a letter on your jersey.
i agree, however i think drury has more respect in the league than jagr does, especially with the refs, but that is just me....

overall i just dont want the team molded around jagr anymore....i want to see players who fit the system and a hard-nosed, gritty team....i hate to say it, but a team like philly who played on the edge and got their hands dirty every game and gave it their all(minus all the crap they did)....i want a team of hard-workers such as cheechoo, torres, orpik, smith.....players who battle and stick up for one another......i just see jagr as not being one of those players although he is amazing gifted offensively i would rather see the team molded around the great two-way play and counter-attacking ability of the players such as drury, gomez, dubinsky, dawes, callahan...players with speed and who can turn the other teams mistakes against them....

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 03:39 PM
  #58
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
"There are few 600 goal scorers. There are even fewer 700 goal scorers."

Let's not let two good rounds in the playoffs blind us from a regular season that was 26 points lower than the previous season. And 52 points less than his 123 point season.
agreed, and i will say right after the playoffs i really wanted him back, but the more i think about it the more i think the team should go in a different direction

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 03:47 PM
  #59
KreiMeARiver
Have Confidence
 
KreiMeARiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
I'll never understand why anyone who's never been in the locker room or on the ice with the team gives a crap about who the captain is. You have no idea how he is received in the room, or that anyone else would be better received by the team as it is built now. Do you really think a different captain will suddenly transform this team into something it currently is not?

Seriously, the "who should be the captain" debate has to be the most overvalued amongst Ranger fans. Having a letter on your chest doesn't suddenly make you a better leader or more important voice in the locker room anymore than not having a letter prevents you from being a good leader. You earn the respect of your teammates and of the officials through your actions, not through a letter on your jersey.
I don't agree with you at all. Even though Messier is one of the best Captain's ever....towards the end...the team needed to go in another direction, and he should not have been the face of the team, anymore. His failure to retire until he was WAY over the hill, could have cost them a playoff appearance. As long as Jagr wears the C, and you have a player of that magnitude in the locker room, other players voices may be unheard, purely out of respect to Jagr...just as it was with Messier.

KreiMeARiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 03:50 PM
  #60
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i agree, however i think drury has more respect in the league than jagr does, especially with the refs, but that is just me....

overall i just dont want the team molded around jagr anymore....i want to see players who fit the system and a hard-nosed, gritty team....i hate to say it, but a team like philly who played on the edge and got their hands dirty every game and gave it their all(minus all the crap they did)....i want a team of hard-workers such as cheechoo, torres, orpik, smith.....players who battle and stick up for one another......i just see jagr as not being one of those players although he is amazing gifted offensively i would rather see the team molded around the great two-way play and counter-attacking ability of the players such as drury, gomez, dubinsky, dawes, callahan...players with speed and who can turn the other teams mistakes against them....
you forgot one important piece.... Philly's players have a ton more talent than we do.

Just look: Carter, Gagne, Richards, Briere, Umberger, Timonen oh yeah and they are all big.

now us: Drury, Gomez, Dubi, Dawes, Cally, Prucha

get where i'm going w/ this. If only Philly played a little bit better defensively, or had a good goalie they might have been holding the cup. oh yeah and their best scorer (and most of their) team was out w/ significant injuries at one point or another this season.

we don't need more grit.... we need more SKILL

personally i think you need a to find a team like Detroit. Lots and Lots of skill, mixed w/ some grit. Unfortunately we can't for 7 more years b/c a) nobody takes hometown discounts and b) that is when the last of our retard signings come off the books.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 03:56 PM
  #61
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 28,043
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
you forgot one important piece.... Philly's players have a ton more talent than we do.

Just look: Carter, Gagne, Richards, Briere, Umberger, Timonen oh yeah and they are all big.

now us: Drury, Gomez, Dubi, Dawes, Cally, Prucha

get where i'm going w/ this. If only Philly played a little bit better defensively, or had a good goalie they might have been holding the cup. oh yeah and their best scorer (and most of their) team was out w/ significant injuries at one point or another this season.

we don't need more grit.... we need more SKILL

personally i think you need a to find a team like Detroit. Lots and Lots of skill, mixed w/ some grit. Unfortunately we can't for 7 more years b/c a) nobody takes hometown discounts and b) that is when the last of our retard signings come off the books.
i wouldnt say philly had more skill than the rangers did....they had more youth and players who were willing to battle....

looking at the macthups:

jagr-richards
gomez-carter
drury-briere
avery-hartnell
etc...


but they had players like hatcher, smith, hartnell, dowd, richards, carter, umberger, knuble who would battle everywhere on the ice...thats all it was....the playoffs is basically a fight and they never surrendered and wore teams down(like montreal)....i just propose to get grittier....the more players battle the more room other players get and more mistakes other teams make

NYR Viper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 04:45 PM
  #62
Jeds2StepOpus
Registered User
 
Jeds2StepOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 893
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by drcameraman View Post
This team will not make the playoffs if Jagr is not resigned. Gomez and Drury can't carry this team.
Newsflash, Gomez carried this team for a majority of this past season.

Anyone who watched all the games clearly saw that.

Every time Shanny's line strggled, Renney moved Gomez in the middle there and the scoring began.

When Jagr struggled, it was Gomez who was moved there and the scoring started.

Then Dubinsky and Drury started to get it going.

But consistently through out the season, it was Gomez that carried this team, offensively.

Jagr spent most of the season with his head firmly planted in his own a**.

I like what Jagr did in the Post Season. But it's clear he's on a severe decline.

Maybe one year would be okay, for a reasonable salary (4 to 5 mil). But Jagr said it himself to the media, his body can no longer take the physical demands of an eighty-two game regulation season and an extended post season.

That tells you something right there, when he says it himself.

Jeds2StepOpus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:06 PM
  #63
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,627
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by squishy View Post
I'll never understand why anyone who's never been in the locker room or on the ice with the team gives a crap about who the captain is. You have no idea how he is received in the room, or that anyone else would be better received by the team as it is built now. Do you really think a different captain will suddenly transform this team into something it currently is not?

Seriously, the "who should be the captain" debate has to be the most overvalued amongst Ranger fans. Having a letter on your chest doesn't suddenly make you a better leader or more important voice in the locker room anymore than not having a letter prevents you from being a good leader. You earn the respect of your teammates and of the officials through your actions, not through a letter on your jersey.
agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The problem I see is this: how much more are the Rangers really going to get out of Jagr next year? Or how much less might be a better question. You're still looking at a 36 year old guy to carry the bulk of the offense. And while you are hoping that Jagr can match his production from last seasons other team's top players are going to get better as they are only entering their primes while Jagr is moving further away from his.
I agree that's a problem, I don't know if there's a solution though, as I'm not sure you're going to find more production for less anywhere.

__________________
Rangers Unlimited
Hockey Graphs
Brian Boyle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:07 PM
  #64
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,627
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Every time Shanny's line strggled, Renney moved Gomez in the middle there and the scoring began.
bull.

Gomez played with Shanny for most of the season. the same season than Shanny struggled throughout.

Brian Boyle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:16 PM
  #65
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Newsflash, Gomez carried this team for a majority of this past season.
It's kinda hard to argue against that.

He and Lundqvist were clearly our best players through most of the season.

It is obvious the team needs to start being built around Gomez and Drury. They were signed for a reason.

However, it is up to the front office to realize that is what they had intended when they signed them.

Maybe it is time to move on from Jagr. Just build the team from scratch now. New identity. hand the torch over. Wasn't that the point of signing Gomez and Drury to begin with?

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:19 PM
  #66
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Guys, Shanahan struggled because he is 39 years old and can't skate anymore.

He wouldn't have been able to produce with Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, or any other superstar as his pivot.

He's just done as an NHL player.

Plain and simple. It's sad, but it's time to move on here.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:22 PM
  #67
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,627
vCash: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Guys, Shanahan struggled because he is 39 years old and can't skate anymore.

He wouldn't have been able to produce with Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby, or any other superstar as his pivot.

He's just done as an NHL player.

Plain and simple. It's sad, but it's time to move on here.
if that's directed at me, I wasn't blaming Gomez for Shanny's play, but you can't say that he caught fire when put with Gomez

Brian Boyle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:29 PM
  #68
Burlington Bomb 26
Louie Louie Oh oh
 
Burlington Bomb 26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Green Mountain State
Country: United States
Posts: 16,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
I don't agree with you at all. Even though Messier is one of the best Captain's ever....towards the end...the team needed to go in another direction, and he should not have been the face of the team, anymore. His failure to retire until he was WAY over the hill, could have cost them a playoff appearance. As long as Jagr wears the C, and you have a player of that magnitude in the locker room, other players voices may be unheard, purely out of respect to Jagr...just as it was with Messier.
I truley dont believe Messier was the reason they never made it the playoffs in that span, maybe its Sandy McCarthy on 1st line

Burlington Bomb 26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:31 PM
  #69
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
i know, its a painful reminder. not doing this was worse than the 2003 draft debacle. but you can't change the past... just hope Sather doesnt f up the future.
Yea, true. No sense crying over spilled milk.

I hope we make really smart moves this summer and beyond.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:31 PM
  #70
ThirdEye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 11,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
Personally I would like to keep Jagr for his offense, but I would like to see another Captain. So I'm torn.
I'd honestly want to see another captain next year as well, but I also would like our team to make the playoffs. If Jagr leaves and we don't replace him with anyone worthwhile we're screwed as mentioned.

I think Hossa would keep this team a playoff team, but chances are he's not coming here. Not to mention that we have a little too much money tied up in forwards, and Hossa is going to want a long-term deal (that is, if he didn't alright sign with the Pens. I'm too lazy to check).

ThirdEye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:34 PM
  #71
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
if that's directed at me, I wasn't blaming Gomez for Shanny's play, but you can't say that he caught fire when put with Gomez
No, you can't. I agree. He certainly didn't catch fire at any point this season.



It wasn't directed at you or anyone specifically, i was just pointing out a fact. Shanny, as a player, or at least hopefully as a player with the Rangers, is done.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:34 PM
  #72
Burlington Bomb 26
Louie Louie Oh oh
 
Burlington Bomb 26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Green Mountain State
Country: United States
Posts: 16,615
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
I'd honestly want to see another captain next year as well, but I also would like our team to make the playoffs. If Jagr leaves and we don't replace him with anyone worthwhile we're screwed as mentioned.

I think Hossa would keep this team a playoff team, but chances are he's not coming here. Not to mention that we have a little too much money tied up in forwards, and Hossa is going to want a long-term deal (that is, if he didn't alright sign with the Pens. I'm too lazy to check).
yeah we are definetly not getting Hossa, Eklund has us tied with Montreal, and Boston. I geuss he's going out west

Burlington Bomb 26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 05:36 PM
  #73
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
yeah we are definetly not getting Hossa, Eklund has us tied with Montreal, and Boston. I geuss he's going out west


It's true, whatever Eklund says, expect the opposite.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 06:19 PM
  #74
DontStepanMe
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,377
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i wouldnt say philly had more skill than the rangers did....they had more youth and players who were willing to battle....

looking at the macthups:

jagr-richards
gomez-carter
drury-briere
avery-hartnell
etc...


but they had players like hatcher, smith, hartnell, dowd, richards, carter, umberger, knuble
ummmm.... if you think that those 4 Rangers are better than those 4 Philly players and have more skill than them you're crazy. Also you forgot about Umberger, Gagne, Knuble, Lupul, Upshall..... their lineup is 10x better, and has 10x the amount of skill that the Rangers do. The only reason they didn't win the division/conference was because they don't have a great goalie, and because injuries undermined them yet again. Oh yeah and they are all young. The Rangers don't even come close to having players like that.

DontStepanMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2008, 06:44 PM
  #75
KreiMeARiver
Have Confidence
 
KreiMeARiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UES
Posts: 6,511
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
I truley dont believe Messier was the reason they never made it the playoffs in that span, maybe its Sandy McCarthy on 1st line
I'm definitely not saying he was the main reason they didn't make the playoffs...but they needed a totally new identity....not the one where they are holding on to 94.

Oh and the players all skated around like chickens with their heads cut off....that had something to do with it too lol

KreiMeARiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.