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Old
06-19-2008, 02:36 PM
  #26
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
Honestly, I'd rather take the elite defenseman this year than take a shot at maybe sucking enough to get a good enough pick to grab an elite forward next year.
if we lose jagr, Shanny, Avery, Straka, Roszival and don't replace them sufficiently we might suck alot next year and get a real high pick.

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06-19-2008, 02:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
if we lose jagr, Shanny, Avery, Straka, Roszival and don't replace them sufficiently we might suck alot next year and get a real high pick.
It seems to me that a great deal of our fanbase would rather lose then win...as if wining on draft day (which doesn't mean the kid actually makes it just that they drafted a kid with potential) is better then winning a stanley cup.....

I mean i'm not trying to insult anybody here but it feels like if we aren't a legit stanley cup contender on June 20th then we should just say "screw it..what's the point"

The Rangers should just forfeit every game next season to get in the lottery....

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06-19-2008, 02:46 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
It seems to me that a great deal of our fanbase would rather lose then win...as if wining on draft day (which doesn't mean the kid actually makes it just that they drafted a kid with potential) is better then winning a stanley cup.....

I mean i'm not trying to insult anybody here but it feels like if we aren't a legit stanley cup contender on June 20th then we should just say "screw it..what's the point"

The Rangers should just forfeit every game next season to get in the lottery....
mediocrity leads to more mediocrity.....

the rangers have hit a wall withthe players they have....and the team, as some have said, is built around jagr, who is only getting older and is showing his age....being realistic the team wont make it to the 2nd round again next year with jagr as the focal point....its not that i dont want to win, its that i dont want to go back to when the team just sat in 9th place forever and didnt make the playoffs or get a good pick as it killed the organization.....i would rather finish the rebuilding in one year than drag it out with another year or two of the jagr era

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06-19-2008, 02:47 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
It seems to me that a great deal of our fanbase would rather lose then win...as if wining on draft day (which doesn't mean the kid actually makes it just that they drafted a kid with potential) is better then winning a stanley cup.....

I mean i'm not trying to insult anybody here but it feels like if we aren't a legit stanley cup contender on June 20th then we should just say "screw it..what's the point"

The Rangers should just forfeit every game next season to get in the lottery....
Yeah that's pretty much the attitude. If the Rangers aren't winning the Stanley cup, they should be winning the draft lottery. There's no inbetween or enjoyment of them being a good team and making the playoffs

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06-19-2008, 02:51 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
mediocrity leads to more mediocrity.....

the rangers have hit a wall withthe players they have....and the team, as some have said, is built around jagr, who is only getting older and is showing his age....being realistic the team wont make it to the 2nd round again next year with jagr as the focal point....its not that i dont want to win, its that i dont want to go back to when the team just sat in 9th place forever and didnt make the playoffs or get a good pick as it killed the organization.....i would rather finish the rebuilding in one year than drag it out with another year or two of the jagr era
its too bad that our rebuilding will take another 4 years until somebodys *cough*Drury*cough horrendous contract comes off the books.

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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Yeah that's pretty much the attitude. If the Rangers aren't winning the Stanley cup, they should be winning the draft lottery. There's no inbetween or enjoyment of them being a good team and making the playoffs
I enjoyed them in the playoffs and having a good team at the end. I did want them to trade everybody away at the deadline and completely start from scratch w/ alot of picks, and good prospects but once the deadline passed they were an enjoyable team. Especially in the PO's.

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06-19-2008, 02:55 PM
  #31
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It's really just not feasible for a team to do that, and it's completely possible to improve the team to cup contender status without blowing everything up

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06-19-2008, 02:57 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post

its too bad that our rebuilding will take another 4 years until somebodys *cough*Drury*cough horrendous contract comes off the books.
It really pains me to agree, but I can't deny that I do. I know he has a NMC, but I wouldn't mind seeing him moved.

cue: flame fest

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06-19-2008, 03:00 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
mediocrity leads to more mediocrity.....

the rangers have hit a wall withthe players they have....and the team, as some have said, is built around jagr, who is only getting older and is showing his age....being realistic the team wont make it to the 2nd round again next year with jagr as the focal point....its not that i dont want to win, its that i dont want to go back to when the team just sat in 9th place forever and didnt make the playoffs or get a good pick as it killed the organization.....i would rather finish the rebuilding in one year than drag it out with another year or two of the jagr era
The Rangers hit a wall? When and where?

What if the 2nd Dubinsky played with the first half Jagr...or better yet...what if Dubinsky matures even more in the offseason and gets to play with Jagr again next season...

How can you say it's realistic the Rangers won't make it to 2nd round of the playoffs with Jagr as the focal point...Jagr had a down year but the whole team did...wouldn't an improved power play help the rangers advance next season? what if the rangers actually improve the team this offseason while bringing back the important pieces they need? why do they have to blow things up?

I would rather win then lose...i would rather see my team do well then have a plan to tank a season...

can we stop calling this a rebuild..it's been 4 years now since the rebuild was started....it's time for the rangers to take a step forward not 3 steps back...

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06-19-2008, 03:04 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
its too bad that our rebuilding will take another 4 years until somebodys *cough*Drury*cough horrendous contract comes off the books.



I enjoyed them in the playoffs and having a good team at the end. I did want them to trade everybody away at the deadline and completely start from scratch w/ alot of picks, and good prospects but once the deadline passed they were an enjoyable team. Especially in the PO's.
Chris Drury is far from the problem...far from it...

also in a year or two that contract will not be that big of a deal...Drury is another guy that fans can't understand that what he does will never translate on the score sheets in your morning paper...

you want to look at why the rangers will be limited this offseason...look no further then the most overrated player in rangers history...Captain Shanny.....thanks grampa shanny for the wasted season last year and wasted cap space this coming season.....at least he won't be embarassing himself in a rangers uniform next season...

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06-19-2008, 03:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
look no further then the most overrated player in rangers history...Captain Shanny.....thanks grampa shanny for the wasted season last year and wasted cap space this coming season.....at least he won't be embarassing himself in a rangers uniform next season...
Though I think you're going wayyy too far with your criticism of him (most overrated player in Rangers history? Hardly), I agree that his contract was crap and that it's time the Rangers move on. I liked him in his first year until he got his bell rung, and he was alright for half of this last year, but he looked completely and totally done towards the end of the season and the playoffs.

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06-19-2008, 03:39 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Chris Drury is far from the problem...far from it...

also in a year or two that contract will not be that big of a deal...Drury is another guy that fans can't understand that what he does will never translate on the score sheets in your morning paper...

you want to look at why the rangers will be limited this offseason...look no further then the most overrated player in rangers history...Captain Shanny.....thanks grampa shanny for the wasted season last year and wasted cap space this coming season.....at least he won't be embarassing himself in a rangers uniform next season...
I consider Shanny and Drury the same... both are big wastes of cap space... both have leadership abilities and intangibles and etc... but both are grossly overpaid for what they bring... Shanny should have gotten paid around $2mill last season so he is a waste of $3mil.... Drury should have gotten between $4-5mill so he is a waste of $2-3 mil in cap space.... a bad contract is a bad contract. unfortunately now because of Drury's contract being on the books for so much and so long we can't get a hossa who would actually deserve a $7-8 mil contract. or really another superstar as than we have to many high paid players on long term deals b s.

so yeah it is a horrible contract IMO that will suffocate the team for the next 4 years unless there is a huge jump in cap.

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06-19-2008, 03:49 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
I consider Shanny and Drury the same... both are big wastes of cap space... both have leadership abilities and intangibles and etc... but both are grossly overpaid for what they bring... Shanny should have gotten paid around $2mill last season so he is a waste of $3mil.... Drury should have gotten between $4-5mill so he is a waste of $2-3 mil in cap space.... a bad contract is a bad contract. unfortunately now because of Drury's contract being on the books for so much and so long we can't get a hossa who would actually deserve a $7-8 mil contract. or really another superstar as than we have to many high paid players on long term deals b s.

so yeah it is a horrible contract IMO that will suffocate the team for the next 4 years unless there is a huge jump in cap.
Drury is so terrible, I think I'm going to just throw my hands in the air and give up on the Rangers for the next 4 years.

I can see the press releases now, starting with Sather, "Well, we were trying to build a winner, but I signed Chris Drury, and boy what a mistake that was. He backchecks, which is frankly just a waste of energy, and is a leader, and who needs that? Sure he has won cups, but he's never been on a team that won the draft lottery. Once I realized that was the goal, I buried my face in my hands and cried, knowing that we would forever be doomed to a playoff spot while Chris was in town."


Anyway, I'll stick with what we got in Cherepanov. Breaking the RSL rookie record for goals, no matter how you slice it, sounds pretty good to me.

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06-19-2008, 03:55 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by bigblue21 View Post
Drury is so terrible, I think I'm going to just throw my hands in the air and give up on the Rangers for the next 4 years.

I can see the press releases now, starting with Sather, "Well, we were trying to build a winner, but I signed Chris Drury, and boy what a mistake that was. He backchecks, which is frankly just a waste of energy, and is a leader, and who needs that? Sure he has won cups, but he's never been on a team that won the draft lottery. Once I realized that was the goal, I buried my face in my hands and cried, knowing that we would forever be doomed to a playoff spot while Chris was in town."
It's not that signing drury is bad or dumb... it is that paying him $7mil a year is...
the point is is that you don't pay $7 mil annully for somebody that backchecks or plays defense... Cally plays good defense and backchecks does he deserve $7mill a year? would you sign John Madden for $7 mill a year? of course not.

you play payers over $5 mil a year to put up a crapload of points... they are your superstars... Drury is paid like a superstar but is nowhere close to being one. That is a problem. Who would you rather pay $7mil Drury or Kovy... Drury or Gaby... Drury or Lecalvalier... how about Drury or Gomez? get the point... which unfortunately Drury doesnt get enough of.

Drury is not the type of player who can or will carry a team... that is who you pay uberbucks too... Drury is a good compliment to a star but NOT the star to lead the team.

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06-19-2008, 04:00 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
It's not that signing drury is bad or dumb... it is that paying him $7mil a year is...
the point is is that you don't pay $7 mil annully for somebody that backchecks or plays defense... Cally plays good defense and backchecks does he deserve $7mill a year? would you sign John Madden for $7 mill a year? of course not.

you play payers over $5 mil a year to put up a crapload of points... they are your superstars... Drury is paid like a superstar but is nowhere close to being one. That is a problem. Who would you rather pay $7mil Drury or Kovy... Drury or Gaby... Drury or Lecalvalier... how about Drury or Gomez? get the point... which unfortunately Drury doesnt get enough of.

Drury is not the type of player who can or will carry a team... that is who you pay uberbucks too... Drury is a good compliment to a star but NOT the star to lead the team.
Today's market with the rising cap none of Gaborik, Lecavalier, Kovalchuck are getting only 7 mil. Not a chance. Elias, 2 years ago was signed to a 7 mil/yr contract. And who would I rather have there? Yep, Drury.

Drury does the little things, yes--including winning faceoffs, a very important skill for the playoffs--and also scores, much more than Madden has ever done in his career. Maybe it's a slight overpayment but that's what happens with FA's. You want to sign Lecavalier as an FA? Open up the checkbook, because he's hitting 10 mil a year easy.

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06-19-2008, 04:04 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by bigblue21 View Post
Today's market with the rising cap none of Gaborik, Lecavalier, Kovalchuck are getting only 7 mil. Not a chance. Elias, 2 years ago was signed to a 7 mil/yr contract. And who would I rather have there? Yep, Drury.

Drury does the little things, yes--including winning faceoffs, a very important skill for the playoffs--and also scores, much more than Madden has ever done in his career. Maybe it's a slight overpayment but that's what happens with FA's. You want to sign Lecavalier as an FA? Open up the checkbook, because he's hitting 10 mil a year easy.
and I would rather Pay Lecalvalier $10 mil than Drury $7mil because he brings more bang for the buck than Drury.

even though Lecalvalier probably won't get over $9 on FA.

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06-19-2008, 04:07 PM
  #41
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I think Gomez and Cherepanov could be a nice fit.

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06-19-2008, 04:23 PM
  #42
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Cherepanov is the more advanced player. And has been at younger ages.

In Juniors, at ages 16/17, Cherepanov scored 31 goals, 61 points, in only 28 games.

As a 17/18 year old Filatov scored 32 goals, 66 points, in 34 games.


Then, Cherepanov played in the Russian Super League as a 17/18 year old and broke Bure's scoring record.

The following year(this year) basically matched those numbers despite starting off the year injured.


Cherepanov, if he were in NA this year, he would be in the NHL or AHL.

Filatov will most likely be in the CHL and has a chance to be in the AHL.


Cherepanov is more advanced, and for a reason.


But that isn't taking anything away from Filatov. He is a good player.

IMO they are two different kinds of players.


The only reason Cherepanov is not coming to NA to play for the Rangers in the NHL next season is because he decided to be loyal and honor his final year of his contract with Omsk, with the Rangers approval. And he also stated he wants to be a dominant player in Russia. And only uninformed people in media don't realize that the Rangers and Omsk have a little partnership going, and that Cherepanov WILL be in the NHL in 2009-2010.

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06-19-2008, 05:43 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
wow talk about massive overpayment for a pick.
Really???
Cus renney refuses to play prucha..bourret has some issues (and upside) and tyutin is a decent defenseman..
our number 20 brings what??? a project two years off the bigs at best...
and if we are a playoff team this year as we all hope and expect are pick next year is what, somewhere around the 20 (or 30 i hope) range??

With Staal, Girardi, Mara and a free agent or 2 (of good caliber) and young guys like sauer, sanguinetti, potter developing we can have a good defense.
what we lack is a game breaking forward and with LA's #2 overall we can get that guy....add to that LA's 2nd rounder which should be high I assumed, we may be able to snag Jared Staal, who could develop into a steal...

Long story short, we need young impact scoring...not project players and dawes, callahan level players..

Do all of you not see that without jagr we arent a playoff team???

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06-19-2008, 05:50 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
Do all of you not see that without jagr we arent a playoff team???
yea, we didnt score enough with jagr, imagine us without him. We need a replacement now. i dont mean ryder or rolston, i mean a true #1 forward. Drury is not that, nor does he deserve that kind of money. If we waited a year and signed gaborik instead, shalome stanley cup.

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06-19-2008, 07:16 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherepanisimov View Post
yea, we didnt score enough with jagr, imagine us without him. We need a replacement now. i dont mean ryder or rolston, i mean a true #1 forward. Drury is not that, nor does he deserve that kind of money. If we waited a year and signed gaborik instead, shalome stanley cup.
Exactly my sentiment. We play a good team game and defense as a unit of 5, if we had a jagr/gaborik/kovalchuk type scorer we'd be in much better shape....
obviously

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06-19-2008, 08:31 PM
  #46
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Right now it's a toss of the coin.

I think Filatov is the safer pick, but Cherry has the higher upside.

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06-19-2008, 08:40 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Right now it's a toss of the coin.

I think Filatov is the safer pick.
why, because he coming to NA next year or is it something in his game?

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06-19-2008, 09:00 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Filatov is more exciting to watch, and looks more offensively explosive, and defensively aware, but youd really need to see how their games translate to the NHL before making a judgement call.
How much have you gotten to see of Filatov?

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06-19-2008, 09:00 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Cherepanisimov View Post
why, because he coming to NA next year or is it something in his game?
I think Cherry is a little bit more of a wildcard.

He's extremely skilled, but I think his career could go down a wider direction of paths.

Filatov is flashier, but I think his attributes (speed, agility, etc.) give him better odds of at least being something, even if it's "only" a second line player.

Cherry strikes me as a guy who could be a 30-40 goal scorer, or he could be a guy who never successfully makes the jump. I can't see him falling in the middle as a second line guy.

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06-19-2008, 09:44 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by nyrangers23 View Post
id take rudy poeschek over both of them
honestly i think both will be good nhl players but i would stick with cherry
Rudy Poeschek.

There's this group on Facebook called "Mediocre NHL'ers of the 1990's" and the one of the pictures posted is of Rudy Poeschek, and the caption the person used when posting it was "Nobody was cheering for this Rudy."

I'm sorry, everytime I see his name now I'm going to affiliate it with that picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherepanisimov View Post
i know, everybody is saying that filatov is better, but he didnt even play in the RSL. cherry didnt just play in the RSL, he was on the 2nd line on a playoff team, while scoring better than the best player in the world at the same age
Some people think Filatov is better because he's faster and flashier. Cherepanov can easily be a better goal scorer, and has proven this. They were undeniably good together at the WJC.

Quote:
i just wanted to see how everybody felt about it, and if filatov is being really overrated
I think overrated is too strong of a word. Overhyped, maybe slightly. But he definitely is a top-3 talent in this draft, just as Cherepanov was last year, and Cherepanov's draft was much deeper, if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
the main thing is that only two teams in the nhl will have one of these guys and the rangers are lucky enough to be one of them
Amen, here's to Cherepanov scoring 30-40, hopefully.

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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Judging by the 3 games ive seen them play, Filatov.
I can't necessarily say that. I've seen Filatov play just as much, but I've seen more of Cherepanov, and although Filatov is faster and flashier, Cherepanov is no joke when it comes to speed. He can fly if he wants to, and that's the thing. He doesn't turn it up unless he wants to, but he can turn the jets on in a split-second. People also talk about him not being able to score goals from the outside, in terms of having a big slapshot like Ovechkin. He probably won't do that as often, but he can. I think if anything though, Cherepanov is definitely the stronger of the two on the puck. Seeing multiple players try to close him off at times - even when he's playing with Omsk - and still coming out with the puck is something.

Call me a homer, but Cherepanov over Filatov, by a little. Cherepanov has played against far better competition at the same age, if not younger, and has excelled big time, re-writing history in the process, and outperforming peers that have happened to have tremendous NHL careers so far, and one that's Toronto-bound for sure. With that said, I can't help but give the edge to Cherepanov, for right now at the least.

Quote:
Expect him to be an Islander.
God I hope not, while I take Cherepanov over his linemate Nikita, Filatov is going to be one hell of a player.

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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
its too bad that our rebuilding will take another 4 years until somebodys *cough*Drury*cough horrendous contract comes off the books.
Somebody's finally saying what I got bashed for last summer.

I also got bashed for saying Gomez's contract was the better of the two... go figure.

Quote:
I enjoyed them in the playoffs and having a good team at the end. I did want them to trade everybody away at the deadline and completely start from scratch w/ alot of picks, and good prospects but once the deadline passed they were an enjoyable team. Especially in the PO's.
The problem is, as someone else has mentioned in this thread that this team has hit it's wall. This past season was the year for the Rangers to come up big and win it, because we all thought they had the team that was built for it. What we forgot is that defense wins, and we didn't have the defense to handle two lines worth of Top-3 players in the NHL.

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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Though I think you're going wayyy too far with your criticism of him (most overrated player in Rangers history? Hardly), I agree that his contract was crap and that it's time the Rangers move on. I liked him in his first year until he got his bell rung, and he was alright for half of this last year, but he looked completely and totally done towards the end of the season and the playoffs.
Shanahan was burned out by Renney half way through the 06-07 season because Renney was a moron and overused him unnecessarily on the PK. 2nd line minutes and power play time, and the guy easily goes 40-40-80 again like he did in 06, like he was on track to do. Then when he got his game going again, the Knuble incident happened, and he hasn't been the same player since.

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