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Jagr needs to go.

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Old
06-19-2008, 06:11 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Don't bring back Straka and Rozsival and we're already taking another step forward.
And Shanny.

That is 3 steps forward already.

Jagr's not the problem. It was Straka and Shanny, they need to be replaced, not Jagr.


I'm still trying to figure out how the "Don't re-sign Jagr" crowd expects us to replace half our team? Straka, Avery, Jagr, Rosy, Mara, Malik, Shanny....are gone...that leaves us with about no vetran leadership. We are so eagar to throw away a team, who's top played help lead us to the 2nd round of the playoffs 2 years in a row because people fear we need to new direction?

Whoever said this team has been spoiled over the past few years nailed it and will be in for a huge wakeup call next season when we have an entire new team, no chemistry, and fighting to get the 8th spot.

So please, to that crowd...how do you expect to replace all these lost bodies? Maintain chemistry, leadership and compete for a long playoff run?


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06-19-2008, 07:25 PM
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
And Shanny.


I'm still trying to figure out how the "Don't re-sign Jagr" crowd expects us to replace half our team? Straka, Avery, Jagr, Rosy, Mara, Malik, Shanny....are gone...that leaves us with about no vetran leadership. We are so eagar to throw away a team, who's top played help lead us to the 2nd round of the playoffs 2 years in a row because people fear we need to new direction?
[/B]
I am in agreement with what your saying about a complete team overhaul, it could backfire, but I really would like to resign JAGR and Avery, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing back Mara and Straka...

Rosy, Malik, Shanny, Backman, and Hollweg are all the players I would like to see gone. I truly believe we could upgrade all those players for even less than they would make. I'd expect that group to pull in 12 Million combined, we could get 2 or 3 quality free agents and fill the backman and hollweg losses from within easily...

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Old
06-19-2008, 08:41 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
And Shanny.

That is 3 steps forward already.

Jagr's not the problem. It was Straka and Shanny, they need to be replaced, not Jagr.


I'm still trying to figure out how the "Don't re-sign Jagr" crowd expects us to replace half our team? Straka, Avery, Jagr, Rosy, Mara, Malik, Shanny....are gone...that leaves us with about no vetran leadership. We are so eagar to throw away a team, who's top played help lead us to the 2nd round of the playoffs 2 years in a row because people fear we need to new direction?

Whoever said this team has been spoiled over the past few years nailed it and will be in for a huge wakeup call next season when we have an entire new team, no chemistry, and fighting to get the 8th spot.

So please, to that crowd...how do you expect to replace all these lost bodies? Maintain chemistry, leadership and compete for a long playoff run?
i have said what i wanted done....i would rather add grit to the forwards and add leadership and grit to the defense

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06-19-2008, 08:48 PM
  #104
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There's no guarantee with Jagr, either.

It's a crapshoot.

He could resign and then have a worse year than this past season. He could continue his decline in an even worse manner.

It's highly unlikely he returns and has a better year than this past season.

Unless Sather some how brings in another (or two) elite skilled player/players, along with Jagr.

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06-19-2008, 08:50 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i have said what i wanted done....i would rather add grit to the forwards and add leadership and grit to the defense
I've read it..but who do you want to replace that huge chunk of our team?

I agree with you 100% on Orpik, he would be a huge upgrade for us on defense alone. Smith, ok, I can see that also, if we lose all this leadership then getting Smith I would be ok with.

But what about on offense?

We have plenty of grit in our system and young players, but we need some high skill forwards on offense, we can't expect Cally and Dubi to run the show. Nobody from HFD is ready to step up and chip in 20 goals for us either.

I somewhat agree, we need to get away from the whole Euro movement we have been in, but only because those set of guys are getting too old (Straka mainly, Malik of course, 50/50 on Rosy...).

Move away from that group of guys slowly, replace a couple this season, and couple more the next season.

There is no reason we should be throwing away half the team just to rebuild for the future...and thats exactly what we would be doing.

Without Jagr, i'll say it again, it's going to be hard to compete for a playoff spot.

Keep Jagr this year, replace him with Cherry next year and a UFA.

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06-19-2008, 08:52 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
There's no guarantee with Jagr, either.

It's a crapshoot.

He could resign and then have a worse year than this past season. He could continue his decline in an even worse manner.

It's highly unlikely he returns and has a better year than this past season.

Unless Sather some how brings in another (or two) elite skilled player/players, along with Jagr.
There is a guarantee though he will take top defense pairings off of Gomez and Drury though.

Even if he puts up 60 points i'd be happy. You can't expect him to dominate all season like his MVP year 2-3 years ago. But he proved he can dominate when the time comes.

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06-19-2008, 08:54 PM
  #107
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I say we bring back Jagr minus his entourage. That gives us a transition year while keeping us competitive. Jagr signs a one year deal and we ditch Rozsival, Straka and Shanny.

It probably sounds like it's just delaying the inevitable but if Jagr and his entourage leave, this team will need a complete overhaul. We're talking several UFA signings and several trades to make this team competitive. I'd rather not completely overhaul the team because of the reasons Fly mentioned above. Bring back Jagr minus his groupies. Sign a UFA or two and fill the other 1 or 2 spots with rookies.

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06-19-2008, 09:00 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
There is a guarantee though he will take top defense pairings off of Gomez and Drury though.

Even if he puts up 60 points i'd be happy. You can't expect him to dominate all season like his MVP year 2-3 years ago. But he proved he can dominate when the time comes.

I don't expect any player to dominate all year. They're human beings, not machines. All players are going to have their share of bad games, bad shifts and lifeless funks. It's human.

But what I saw with Jagr this past season was not that.

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Old
06-19-2008, 09:03 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
I've read it..but who do you want to replace that huge chunk of our team?

I agree with you 100% on Orpik, he would be a huge upgrade for us on defense alone. Smith, ok, I can see that also, if we lose all this leadership then getting Smith I would be ok with.

But what about on offense?

We have plenty of grit in our system and young players, but we need some high skill forwards on offense, we can't expect Cally and Dubi to run the show. Nobody from HFD is ready to step up and chip in 20 goals for us either.

I somewhat agree, we need to get away from the whole Euro movement we have been in, but only because those set of guys are getting too old (Straka mainly, Malik of course, 50/50 on Rosy...).

Move away from that group of guys slowly, replace a couple this season, and couple more the next season.

There is no reason we should be throwing away half the team just to rebuild for the future...and thats exactly what we would be doing.

Without Jagr, i'll say it again, it's going to be hard to compete for a playoff spot.

Keep Jagr this year, replace him with Cherry next year and a UFA.
honestly, i woul rather have three even lines than one first line....and if you really wanted to have a first line move drury with gomez.....the thing is that if jagr is resigned then sather will get a winger to play with him and dubi.....and then the players who are playing the actual system will get less time.....

drury-gomez-dawes
avery-dubinsky-torres
korpikoski-anisimov-callahan
sjostrom-betts-byers
orr
redden-staal
orpik-girardi
tyutin-potter
struds

i really think that improving the defense will improce the offense...people look at it like the rangers lived up to expectations last year and that there is no way any of them will improve on their numbers....if half of the other players have even average years they will reach the same plateau or better.....i really think the younger players can replace shanahan and straka....and IMO with other players getting more time and with an improved pp they could score more than last year.....

the two main problems i saw last year:
1)the powerplay...no pp qb or anyone to stand in front to screen
solution: torres/redden
2) the forwards came too low in the zone because there wasnt a defenseman who could make along breakout pass(hence so few odd-man rushes)....also leading to the opposing defensemen to not back-up off of the blue-line because they dont have to respect any sort of attack with speed....
solution: orpik/redden-reddens breakout pass and ability to move the puck.....orpiks ability to seperate the other team from the puck and take care of below the goal-line so the forwards dont have to go as low

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Old
06-19-2008, 09:07 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
I don't expect any player to dominate all year. They're human beings, not machines. All players are going to have their share of bad games, bad shifts and lifeless funks. It's human.

But what I saw with Jagr this past season was not that.
i agree.....the thing is people say its all about jagr taking away other teams top defensive pairings....but with that comes the fact he will be playing against other teams top forward lines as well makes his 50-60 points not good at all....he would be a minus...also the amount of minutes he eats could go towarda a replacement...IMO korpikoski would be good for 20-30 points at least if he plays on the third line....thats half of jagr and he actually gets some experience...jagr minus all the points is no where near the same player....he isnt great defensively so you cant say that and he is slowing down

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