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Rumor/Speculation: Avery is a goner

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Old
06-19-2008, 02:42 PM
  #126
NYR Viper
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I don't understand something...Avery has played on the top 2 lines for two season yet we keep calling him a 3rd line player...What am I missing here?

I can see everybodys point that doesn't want him back for $3.5M but I still disagree with it. Here we have a guy that ALWAYS sticks up for his teammates (I question any Rangers player that doesn't want Sean Avery as a teammate) It also doesn't really matter to us or effect us what goes on in the lockeroom....for somebody to say that the coaches and players aren't ther to babysit a player I mean come on...Why do teams have captains? Because Avery won't give Sam Weinman a quote or tell Delipina anything that makes him a bad guy? Who cares about that stuff...

For anybody to say that the reason Avery played so hard is because it was a contract year clearly never saw Avery play BEFORE he became a Rangers player. Also in a contract year he played with a lacerated spleen for two periods....I mean what does that tell you?

We have become to spoiled the past 3 years...We call guys that are 29 old...We have no apperciation for effort or intangibles just what a guy does on a stat sheet. Forget the fact Avery was the only play that had any chemistry with all THREE of the Rangers centers..Forget the fact that Avery was our 2nd line center on a team that almost made the ECF last season...A first line LW during half the season...A second line LW for the other half of the season...But he's a third line player? where...when?


If we you want to replace Avery then please lets here all the plan Bs? Lets hear who everybody wants to bring in...

It's almost like some guys would rather play the younger kids and have a fire sale then actually winning...
its not that i dont understand what he brings tothe team, its that he seems to have off nights, and that looking around the league, on many good teams he would be a third liner....in order for the rangers to become a good team he should be on the third line where he can thrive....there isnt anything wrong with that...he doesnt put up a ton of points and he isnt overly large but he does play hard and gritty, the ideal third liner....granted on the rangers he is most likely going to play on the second line, but it doesnt mean he should be paid like that just beacuse of the lack of depth

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06-19-2008, 02:49 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
its not that i dont understand what he brings tothe team, its that he seems to have off nights, and that looking around the league, on many good teams he would be a third liner....in order for the rangers to become a good team he should be on the third line where he can thrive....there isnt anything wrong with that...he doesnt put up a ton of points and he isnt overly large but he does play hard and gritty, the ideal third liner....granted on the rangers he is most likely going to play on the second line, but it doesnt mean he should be paid like that just beacuse of the lack of depth
off nights? Is it really off nights or is it that on somenights he gets neutralized...also who among us hasn't mailed in a day at work?

The Rangers are a good team he has played well on the 1st and 2nd lines on a good team...(weren't fans crying about Avery not being re-united with Jagr...i mean at one time we understood chemistry but now we only understand stats..)

$3.5M for a 2nd line player that can play well on special teams and piss off the other team at the same time....it's almost a bargain...

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06-19-2008, 03:08 PM
  #128
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SoS...

there is a level at which it's too much and I'm guess that there has been a player or two moved because he didn't get along with his teammates. I can't say this is actually the case because I don't have firsthand knowledge and most everything I say is with an 'if' caveat, but lockerroom problems can show on the ice. I'm guess there's a reason why players, coaches, announcers, etc., speak about the lockerroom so often, which is probably because there is an affect on the game. If you have a cancer, sometimes it's better to get rid of it as opposed to letting the problem get worse. That's just my opinion, and it's a general opinion and may not apply to the Rangers since again, I have no way of knowing if there is a lockerroom problem.

On another note - I've mailed in a day at work but typically work almost every day of the week. When I have to be on (i.e., a pitch to win business), I'm always on. Avery needs to work 82 games a year (under 60). And his workday is about 16 minutes each game (although he has to show up for a few hours). So I'm not a huge fan of the analogy. The better analogy is every player in the league has had a few bad games, and has taken off a shift here and there, so what's different about Avery? Personally, and I've said this a few times, his bad games are pretty bad and are more noticeable because it's more like him being a bonehead more than anything else and frustrates. The question is does he take off more than the average guy or is it just more noticeable when he does take off.

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06-19-2008, 03:17 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I don't understand something...Avery has played on the top 2 lines for two season yet we keep calling him a 3rd line player...What am I missing here?

I can see everybodys point that doesn't want him back for $3.5M but I still disagree with it. Here we have a guy that ALWAYS sticks up for his teammates (I question any Rangers player that doesn't want Sean Avery as a teammate) It also doesn't really matter to us or effect us what goes on in the lockeroom....for somebody to say that the coaches and players aren't ther to babysit a player I mean come on...Why do teams have captains? Because Avery won't give Sam Weinman a quote or tell Delipina anything that makes him a bad guy? Who cares about that stuff...

For anybody to say that the reason Avery played so hard is because it was a contract year clearly never saw Avery play BEFORE he became a Rangers player. Also in a contract year he played with a lacerated spleen for two periods....I mean what does that tell you?

We have become to spoiled the past 3 years...We call guys that are 29 old...We have no apperciation for effort or intangibles just what a guy does on a stat sheet. Forget the fact Avery was the only play that had any chemistry with all THREE of the Rangers centers..Forget the fact that Avery was our 2nd line center on a team that almost made the ECF last season...A first line LW during half the season...A second line LW for the other half of the season...But he's a third line player? where...when?


If we you want to replace Avery then please lets here all the plan Bs? Lets hear who everybody wants to bring in...

It's almost like some guys would rather play the younger kids and have a fire sale then actually winning...
I love everything about this post.

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06-19-2008, 03:21 PM
  #130
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Yeah, I don't understand this nonsense of slamming Avery, diminishing his worth and contribution. Nevermind the silly insistence of calling him a Third Liner, when he has played on the top two lines since coming to the Rangers; and has shown the skills and abilities to stay there.

This is a guy that brings so much to the table in terms of heart, soul, courage, tenacity, aggression and skills.

Yet these people are killing the guy.

Would serve you guys right, if he walks away and signs with another team.

Of course, then these Rangers fans will be screaming bloody murder and crying that the Rangers don't have a player with the kind of heart, tenacity, physicality and skills of someone........like ......you know.......Sean Avery.

I'm not saying the guy's worth 5 or 6 mil. But sheesh, he's worth 3 mil. Hell, I'll even step-off my initial 3 mil stance and say he's definitely worth at least 3.5 mil.

Every player in the league has bad nights, bad shifts, off-shifts. Jagr has them all the time. Turnovers? You guys complain about turnovers? Hell, then Jagr is your biggest culprit.

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06-19-2008, 03:22 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I don't understand something...Avery has played on the top 2 lines for two season yet we keep calling him a 3rd line player...What am I missing here?

I can see everybodys point that doesn't want him back for $3.5M but I still disagree with it. Here we have a guy that ALWAYS sticks up for his teammates (I question any Rangers player that doesn't want Sean Avery as a teammate) It also doesn't really matter to us or effect us what goes on in the lockeroom....for somebody to say that the coaches and players aren't ther to babysit a player I mean come on...Why do teams have captains? Because Avery won't give Sam Weinman a quote or tell Delipina anything that makes him a bad guy? Who cares about that stuff...

For anybody to say that the reason Avery played so hard is because it was a contract year clearly never saw Avery play BEFORE he became a Rangers player. Also in a contract year he played with a lacerated spleen for two periods....I mean what does that tell you?

We have become to spoiled the past 3 years...We call guys that are 29 old...We have no apperciation for effort or intangibles just what a guy does on a stat sheet. Forget the fact Avery was the only play that had any chemistry with all THREE of the Rangers centers..Forget the fact that Avery was our 2nd line center on a team that almost made the ECF last season...A first line LW during half the season...A second line LW for the other half of the season...But he's a third line player? where...when?


If we you want to replace Avery then please lets here all the plan Bs? Lets hear who everybody wants to bring in...

It's almost like some guys would rather play the younger kids and have a fire sale then actually winning...
QFT!!

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Old
06-19-2008, 03:26 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
QFT!!
I want to keep Avery and Jagr but I also don't mind changing things up if managment feels they would be getting too much money

have to keep the cap in mind

with that Avery will take a little discount to stay .............i hope

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06-19-2008, 03:26 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
there is a level at which it's too much and I'm guess that there has been a player or two moved because he didn't get along with his teammates. I can't say this is actually the case because I don't have firsthand knowledge and most everything I say is with an 'if' caveat, but lockerroom problems can show on the ice. I'm guess there's a reason why players, coaches, announcers, etc., speak about the lockerroom so often, which is probably because there is an affect on the game. If you have a cancer, sometimes it's better to get rid of it as opposed to letting the problem get worse. That's just my opinion, and it's a general opinion and may not apply to the Rangers since again, I have no way of knowing if there is a lockerroom problem.
I'd have a big problem if any Rangers player lets what Avery does in the lockeroom get to them on the ice...Avery is one of the few guys that sticks up for his teammates against anybody and everybody that comes at them. I said it earlier in the thread i don't expect Avery to be on the Rangers when his contract would expire but i think it's terrible asset managment letting him walk over a few hundered thousand dollars. Not when you know you can trade Avery at any point the next 3 years if/when he becomes a problem...

Quote:
On another note - I've mailed in a day at work but typically work almost every day of the week. When I have to be on (i.e., a pitch to win business), I'm always on. Avery needs to work 82 games a year (under 60). And his workday is about 16 minutes each game (although he has to show up for a few hours). So I'm not a huge fan of the analogy. The better analogy is every player in the league has had a few bad games, and has taken off a shift here and there, so what's different about Avery? Personally, and I've said this a few times, his bad games are pretty bad and are more noticeable because it's more like him being a bonehead more than anything else and frustrates. The question is does he take off more than the average guy or is it just more noticeable when he does take off.
His bad games are pretty bad but the good outweighs the bad with this player...what annoys me about Avery is that he's offsides far and away the most on the team...

i think his effort makes it more noticeable when he takes a night or shift off...people notice it when he isn't on...

if fans want to replace avery that's fine (i'm all for anything that helps the team win) but lets start discussing who can take averys minutes on the top 2 lines and play as effective...Prucha? no Callahan? no Korpedo? (who i love) no..somebody from outside the team that none of us know will be able to play here? i mean these games arent' played on paper...can we take what avery has done as a rangers player into account before we dismiss him.....i just don't get how fast the fans have turned on avery...

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06-19-2008, 03:36 PM
  #134
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I think..

I've made most of my points about him and think he is a very talented player but too often loses focus. When he's on, he's a 20+ goal scorer, a banger, and good at both ends. When he's not on, he's a liability.

On the other issue...having not been in a lockerroom in a very long time it's hard for me to comment, but talking to some people who have, when you don't like someone it is in the back of your head, even on the ice. Again, I don't know if this is an issue, but isn't this why you get rid of a guy like Aaron Ward?

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06-19-2008, 03:44 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I've made most of my points about him and think he is a very talented player but too often loses focus. When he's on, he's a 20+ goal scorer, a banger, and good at both ends. When he's not on, he's a liability.

On the other issue...having not been in a lockerroom in a very long time it's hard for me to comment, but talking to some people who have, when you don't like someone it is in the back of your head, even on the ice. Again, I don't know if this is an issue, but isn't this why you get rid of a guy like Aaron Ward?
I think the good outweighs the bad...by far...I also think the way avery plays even when hes not on teams are on the lookout for what he could do next...

i think ward was traded because he went to the press with his problem..it feels like one of the reasons the fans don't want avery back is because he doesn't really talk to the press....a weird conundrum

if avery was a not liked by his teammates why do they defend him and why does he defend them? to me it's media "gossip" it's like the media thinks avery is a problem in the lockeroom because he won't give weinman or zipay the time of day....

can we find a quote from any rangers player that questions avery or the way he plays? can we find a former rangers player that has said anything about avery? i mean what does a former rangers player have to lose by saying anything about avery?

i think letting avery become a free agent is a big mistake and i also think he'll end up getting more then $3.5M on the open market..

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06-19-2008, 03:53 PM
  #136
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All good questions...

of course a team that has class guys on it isn't airing their dirty laundry. If it gets to that point, then it's pretty bad. While a guy may not be liked in a lockerroom, that's something you try to keep within the confines. Of course sometimes you hear some dirty laundry (in any sports) later from some scab who happened to be there, but often don't hear it at the time it's happening. Because it's not public doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it doesn't exist, I'm not 100% sure what Sather's hesitancy was regarding trying to lock him up pre-UFA season. Is it he wants to see who he can secure and thinks Avery will be there on day two of the UFA season? Perhaps that's his strategy. We'll see. If he returns it's a sign to me that there isn't a real lockerroom problem and Avery will be an asset next season.

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06-19-2008, 03:53 PM
  #137
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Wow, SOS & Fletch just relived an argument from a FEBRUARY thread on Avery almost verbatim! Way to go boys!

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06-19-2008, 04:01 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
of course a team that has class guys on it isn't airing their dirty laundry. If it gets to that point, then it's pretty bad. While a guy may not be liked in a lockerroom, that's something you try to keep within the confines. Of course sometimes you hear some dirty laundry (in any sports) later from some scab who happened to be there, but often don't hear it at the time it's happening. Because it's not public doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If it doesn't exist, I'm not 100% sure what Sather's hesitancy was regarding trying to lock him up pre-UFA season. Is it he wants to see who he can secure and thinks Avery will be there on day two of the UFA season? Perhaps that's his strategy. We'll see. If he returns it's a sign to me that there isn't a real lockerroom problem and Avery will be an asset next season.

Fletch have we even heard a leak from any player? an off the record comment...anything?!?!?!?

I think if that's Sathers strategy then avery is as good as gone...teams are going to swoop in fast to sign sean avery...

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06-19-2008, 04:12 PM
  #139
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How can I hear...

an off the record comment?

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06-19-2008, 04:14 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Fletch have we even heard a leak from any player? an off the record comment...anything?!?!?!?

I think if that's Sathers strategy then avery is as good as gone...teams are going to swoop in fast to sign sean avery...
Agreed, what Avery brings is extremely unique and i'm positive that there will be a bunch of teams calling his agent up on July 1st to try to sign him. And yes, there will be teams that will give him what he wants 3.5M(or more).

If Sather doesn't have him locked up by July 1st, he is gone.

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06-19-2008, 06:35 PM
  #141
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Just an observation, neither positive or negative, take it however you want to.

I seem to remember many times during the season thinking to myself that Sean Avery seems to sit by himself on the bench a lot. If he's not where the benches meet, he's off on his own towards the far end. Many times when they cut to him on the bench you couldn't even see another ranger in the picture. While he's doing this, he just stares straight ahead, like he's not even in the game or anything.

Having said that my real opinion. Personally, I don't like the guy. I think the Rangers record without him is an abberation as someone alluded to the same record without Malik.

In the playoffs they won the game he was out, if I recall. He's not worth the money and headache. I'd much rather have a solid player who is not as prone to giveaways and mental mistakes. Plus I really don't think he's out for the sweater and he only does his act if it gets him attention, like in contract situation.

Quite frankly, i think he is a heart and soul guy only for Sean Avery's heart and soul and his own reputation. He is neither the impact player or warrior some claim him to be.

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06-19-2008, 06:41 PM
  #142
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Would be idiotic. He's worth $3.5M easy. Just look at the Rangers W-L record with and without him in the lineup for the last 2 seasons.

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06-19-2008, 06:57 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by NJrocket24 View Post
Just an observation, neither positive or negative, take it however you want to.

I seem to remember many times during the season thinking to myself that Sean Avery seems to sit by himself on the bench a lot. If he's not where the benches meet, he's off on his own towards the far end. Many times when they cut to him on the bench you couldn't even see another ranger in the picture. While he's doing this, he just stares straight ahead, like he's not even in the game or anything.

Having said that my real opinion. Personally, I don't like the guy. I think the Rangers record without him is an abberation as someone alluded to the same record without Malik.

In the playoffs they won the game he was out, if I recall. He's not worth the money and headache. I'd much rather have a solid player who is not as prone to giveaways and mental mistakes. Plus I really don't think he's out for the sweater and he only does his act if it gets him attention, like in contract situation.

Quite frankly, i think he is a heart and soul guy only for Sean Avery's heart and soul and his own reputation. He is neither the impact player or warrior some claim him to be.
Well, the vast majority of Ranger fans will disagree with you. I don't think the good record with him in is an "aberration". He adds a lot of fuel to team that gets complacent way too easily

It's really easy to blame him, because he talks so much trash that the end result is that he takes a lot of the heat. He disappears no more than other players in the NHL, and his negatives are somewhat overblown. Basically, I don't think we'll be a better team without him. However, that's not for me to decide. If enough of the Rangers can't live with him, especially if those Rangers include Drury and other players that are here for the long haul, then obviously that will be taken in to consideration. Probably much more so than the little extra money that he is demanding.

I'm sure most of the players won't be crying if he did leave the team though. The fans will probably take it harder

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06-19-2008, 07:05 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by NJrocket24 View Post
Just an observation, neither positive or negative, take it however you want to.

I seem to remember many times during the season thinking to myself that Sean Avery seems to sit by himself on the bench a lot. If he's not where the benches meet, he's off on his own towards the far end. Many times when they cut to him on the bench you couldn't even see another ranger in the picture. While he's doing this, he just stares straight ahead, like he's not even in the game or anything.

Having said that my real opinion. Personally, I don't like the guy. I think the Rangers record without him is an abberation as someone alluded to the same record without Malik.

In the playoffs they won the game he was out, if I recall. He's not worth the money and headache. I'd much rather have a solid player who is not as prone to giveaways and mental mistakes. Plus I really don't think he's out for the sweater and he only does his act if it gets him attention, like in contract situation.

Quite frankly, i think he is a heart and soul guy only for Sean Avery's heart and soul and his own reputation. He is neither the impact player or warrior some claim him to be.
im speechless

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06-19-2008, 08:53 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by NJrocket24 View Post
Just an observation, neither positive or negative, take it however you want to.

I seem to remember many times during the season thinking to myself that Sean Avery seems to sit by himself on the bench a lot. If he's not where the benches meet, he's off on his own towards the far end. Many times when they cut to him on the bench you couldn't even see another ranger in the picture. While he's doing this, he just stares straight ahead, like he's not even in the game or anything.

Having said that my real opinion. Personally, I don't like the guy. I think the Rangers record without him is an abberation as someone alluded to the same record without Malik.

In the playoffs they won the game he was out, if I recall. He's not worth the money and headache. I'd much rather have a solid player who is not as prone to giveaways and mental mistakes. Plus I really don't think he's out for the sweater and he only does his act if it gets him attention, like in contract situation.

Quite frankly, i think he is a heart and soul guy only for Sean Avery's heart and soul and his own reputation. He is neither the impact player or warrior some claim him to be.
He sits at the end of the bench so he could be closer to the opponents bench

He's always chattering to the opoonents.

But I have seen him on the bench many times with teamates on both sides of him and talking going on between them. So I'm not buying that.

And quite frankily, if there's a Ranger player in that locker room who can't handle having a teammate like Avery; then I don't want that guy on my team. If you're too much of a P**** to handle Avery, then get the hell out of the locker room.

Avery is what he is. As a teammate, you have to have the balls and smarts to know the benefits of having a guy like that on the team.

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06-19-2008, 10:25 PM
  #146
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looking around the league, on many good teams he would be a third liner........
Yes, but his stats in the year's worth of games since he has arrived, dictate that he is very much a second line player.
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in order for the rangers to become a good team he should be on the third line where he can thrive....
20 goals, 50 points and 200 pim's.....sounds like he is doing quite well. And he certainly makes an impact.
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he doesnt put up a ton of points and he isnt overly large but he does play hard and gritty, the ideal third liner
Again, in his time with the Rangers he has, in fact, produced points that are indicative of a 2nd line player. Compare his production in his year's worth of games compared to Malone's this past year and you will be surprised at what you find.
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granted on the rangers he is most likely going to play on the second line, but it doesnt mean he should be paid like that just beacuse of the lack of depth
What he deserves is 2nd line player money. And that is what he will get.

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06-19-2008, 10:57 PM
  #147
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Yes, but his stats in the year's worth of games since he has arrived, dictate that he is very much a second line player.

20 goals, 50 points and 200 pim's.....sounds like he is doing quite well. And he certainly makes an impact.

Again, in his time with the Rangers he has, in fact, produced points that are indicative of a 2nd line player. Compare his production in his year's worth of games compared to Malone's this past year and you will be surprised at what you find.

What he deserves is 2nd line player money. And that is what he will get.
i still disagree....3 million is what he deserves.....he is coming off a year when he was injured allmost half the games and he is going to get 3.5?.....i think people arent understanding where i am coming from....i like avery A LOT, however looking at the tp 4 teams in the league.....philly, pitt, detroit, dallas.......would avery be a top two line player on those teams?....probably not.....he is a very good third liner, and in the new nhl third liners are expected to produce(matt cullen for example)....i just dont want to give him 3.5 million as it just seems like too much.....he has never scored 30 goals....or really put up that many points....i like his edge and the fact he stands up for his teammates but 3 million a year isnt a bad deal.....at all....considering most teams wouldnt have touched him two years ago when the rangers traded for him because he was a "cancer".....its the same thing with rozsival. the only reason he is where he is today is because the rangers gave him the opportunity and believed in him and coached him well......and now he will leave for big money because he isnt worth it...3 million for avery

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06-19-2008, 11:13 PM
  #148
Thirty One
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i like avery A LOT, however looking at the tp 4 teams in the league.....philly, pitt, detroit, dallas.......would avery be a top two line player on those teams?....
no, no, yes, yes

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06-20-2008, 07:48 AM
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Sather low balling Sean and his agent. Why not? That is what he has to do and he's been good at it. At this point in time Slats has absolutely nothing to lose. I predict Avery will be Ranger for 3 year 10 million .

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06-20-2008, 07:58 AM
  #150
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Sather low balling Sean and his agent. Why not? That is what he has to do and he's been good at it. At this point in time Slats has absolutely nothing to lose. I predict Avery will be Ranger for 3 year 10 million .
i hope ur right along with mara, straka and jagr those r the 4 players id resign. mara is cheaper than rozsival and plays a better all round game and actually plays physical when he has too.

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