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Is Pacioretty Expendable?

View Poll Results: Is Pacioretty Expendable?
Yes 9 6.62%
For a superstar only 61 44.85%
No thanks 66 48.53%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-19-2008, 09:34 PM
  #51
Melvin Udall
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montrealistic View Post
Bob says he's aiming short term. This isn't a long term project anymore. He feels we're a couple of players away from winning it all. What if another GM wants our top prospect, who I personally feel is Pacioretty. Big, skilled, tough- just like Bob didn't hesitate to trade Iginla for final pieces, would he trade away Pacioretty? (Don't assume I think Pacioretty=Iginla...)

So how do you guys feel about Max; is he expendable or do we stay away from anything that involves him going the other way?

Edit: Realize when I say superstar only, you have to take into account exactly what 'superstars' are being shopped. Example, Jokinen? Gaborik?

At the time of the Iginla trade (at least to me) Dallas was much closer to being a true CUP contender than the Habs currently are.

In '07-'08 they had a good regular season, not a good playoff!

The Habs have won one playoff series (in 7 games) and need to get to and do some damage in the "final 4" before thinking about the "next step" of becomming close to serious Cup contenders!

The Habs may be a couple players away if both those players were really top end talent -- Gainey is not in a position to draft that level of talent and he hasn't been successful signing top end talent from the UFA pool! Trades? What would Gainey have to give up in a trade to acquire top end talent? Waaay too much!

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Old
06-19-2008, 11:46 PM
  #52
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The last time we did a player-player trade it was Rivet for Gorges. I don't think (sorry to burst your bubbles) that we will be trading for anything but a pick perhaps. As much as I want to believe that Gaborik is coming here, I don't think he is. I don't think the block buster trade we have been waiting for is going to happen. I hope and pray to the Hockey Gods it does, but I don't think it will. So I don't think worrying about Max.P being expendable is an issue.

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Old
06-20-2008, 12:35 AM
  #53
Habruti!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Poutine View Post
Not to be a dick here but there is no way that Bob considers Max Pacioretty expendable. He's a jewel in the rough and he's here to stay for a long time.
Its always like this with prospects.. I remember few years ago when the threads where about promoting Balej and Marcel Hossa because they where so much more talented then the players we had back then. I still remember Marcel Hossa's first game as a hab when he scored on his first shot...everyone where on the banwagon saying he would be better then his brother. Higgins how has 3 20+ goal seasons in the NHL. He now has some playoff experience that will help us in the years to come. We invested quite a lot to bring him where he is... and people would trade him before Pacioretty (which by the way most have not see him play)...

Lats as two seasons with 15+ goals playing on a fourth line and sudenly he is expandable because people don't like the way he skates. This board can be a complete joe sometime. Guys that are expandable are guys that have not yet started to contribute to this team.. This includes guys like Pacioretty, McDonagh, Fisher, Halak, Obyrne, Chipchura, Grabovski, Yemelin, Valentenko, Subban, Maxwell. There is certaily something to make a deal here... And if the deal provides us a skilled player that can solidify our roster today then great!

BTW I would try and do two trades to change the face of this team...
1- Halak for Vermette
2- Obyrne, Chipchura, 2nd for Jokinen

We end up with the following linup...
Higgins, Plekaneks, Kovalev
Vermette, Jokinen, A.Kostsitsyn
Latendresse, Koivu, S.Kostsitsyn
Begin, Lapierre, Kostopoulos

Markov-Komisarek
Hamerlik-Goerges
Bouillon-Velentenko

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Old
06-20-2008, 01:14 AM
  #54
les3couleurs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
BTW I would try and do two trades to change the face of this team...
1- Halak for Vermette
2- Obyrne, Chipchura, 2nd for Jokinen
You could try trade number 2, but then Jacques Martin would never return your calls ever again. He wants established quality players for Jokinen.

Halak for Vermette is not that far fetched, but I think we'd have to add a pick to it. Anyway it seems Vermette is one players the Sens would like to keep.

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Old
06-20-2008, 01:44 AM
  #55
Habruti!
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Originally Posted by les3couleurs View Post
You could try trade number 2, but then Jacques Martin would never return your calls ever again. He wants established quality players for Jokinen.

Halak for Vermette is not that far fetched, but I think we'd have to add a pick to it. Anyway it seems Vermette is one players the Sens would like to keep.
It was reported few times before the deadline that Jacques Martin was very high on Obyrne, perhaps it would be a 1st as opposed to a second, not sure. BG did mention that the asking price for the players they where interested in was not as high now as it was at the trade dead line last year. To me BG is more likely to acquire another skilled forward via a trade then via a free agency and Jokinen seems like the perfect fit IMO.

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Old
06-20-2008, 06:23 AM
  #56
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Timmins said MaxPac was ready to go pro. Imo, MaxPac can play with the Habs within one or two years. I don't think we should trade him since he's the kind of big and gritty guy that we lack on our top lines.

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06-20-2008, 06:44 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
Its always like this with prospects.. I remember few years ago when the threads where about promoting Balej and Marcel Hossa because they where so much more talented then the players we had back then. I still remember Marcel Hossa's first game as a hab when he scored on his first shot...everyone where on the banwagon saying he would be better then his brother. Higgins how has 3 20+ goal seasons in the NHL. He now has some playoff experience that will help us in the years to come. We invested quite a lot to bring him where he is... and people would trade him before Pacioretty (which by the way most have not see him play)...

Lats as two seasons with 15+ goals playing on a fourth line and sudenly he is expandable because people don't like the way he skates. This board can be a complete joe sometime. Guys that are expandable are guys that have not yet started to contribute to this team.. This includes guys like Pacioretty, McDonagh, Fisher, Halak, Obyrne, Chipchura, Grabovski, Yemelin, Valentenko, Subban, Maxwell. There is certaily something to make a deal here... And if the deal provides us a skilled player that can solidify our roster today then great!

BTW I would try and do two trades to change the face of this team...
1- Halak for Vermette
2- Obyrne, Chipchura, 2nd for Jokinen

We end up with the following linup...
Higgins, Plekaneks, Kovalev
Vermette, Jokinen, A.Kostsitsyn
Latendresse, Koivu, S.Kostsitsyn
Begin, Lapierre, Kostopoulos

Markov-Komisarek
Hamerlik-Goerges
Bouillon-Velentenko
Agreed...some on here over value prospects and look at the glass half full when talking current `young veterans`.

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Old
06-20-2008, 07:10 AM
  #58
montreal
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No way, I can't us getting high value for him as he hasn't proven anything, but he's exactly the type of player we sorely lack. Imo he could step into the nhl next season, we have waited a long time for a player like him in our system. To me we should build a strong team for a long time and you do that through the draft. Granted at times you have to make moves but if you do, do it from a position of strength. We are knee deep in RD prospects but have 1 true skilled PF in our system, you can't deal away Pac when you have only one like him and have struggled for years to land a player like him.

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Old
06-20-2008, 07:29 AM
  #59
Habruti!
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
No way, I can't us getting high value for him as he hasn't proven anything, but he's exactly the type of player we sorely lack. Imo he could step into the nhl next season, we have waited a long time for a player like him in our system. To me we should build a strong team for a long time and you do that through the draft. Granted at times you have to make moves but if you do, do it from a position of strength. We are knee deep in RD prospects but have 1 true skilled PF in our system, you can't deal away Pac when you have only one like him and have struggled for years to land a player like him.
Common Montreal, comming from you its a bit suprising. Yes getting rid of a prospect is always painful but if it can make your team win now it has to be considered. Perhpa Pac is ready, we won't know for sure until he steps in the lineup. We have been waiting for a guy like Latendresse for so long and we are still waiting IMO, we where waiting for a big center and had one in our system that had all the tools in Marcel Hossa. He even proved that he could be one of the top AHL performer yet he never came.

I don't think anyone is suggesting to get rid of Pac and I don't think the word expandable is the rigth term either but there is no reason not to listen to a deal that would involve Pac if the return includes a missing piece that we have bee having for a long time...

I am not stating that we should trade him for a Jamal Mayers of this league either. What I am saying is say there is a team that wants him and is ready to pay the price... Lets imagine Horton wants out of florida per example...would'nt you listen?

I would...

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Old
06-20-2008, 07:38 AM
  #60
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On Habs Inside Out, they reported that "Gainey expects to be in a good position in either case. While he has been protective of the team's young talent, he noted that the team has more depth and, in some cases, has two players in the same role."

Like Dan said above, Pac is one of a kind.

Players with the same roll would include the Streit(if resigned)/Dandenault project, Begin/Lapierre, Chips/Smoke(if resigned), Grabs/Pleks and in the system, Weber/Subban. Not to mention all of the RDs we have coming up. Any other examples people can think of?

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Old
06-20-2008, 07:50 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
I don't really care about Carbo nomination for the Jack Admas.
I have seen a coach the has improved over last year and during the year.

Also I have seen him adressing problems one after another in a team that was very young.
Everytime we heard him presenting objectives, the team did it except when he said he wanted to decrease the goal against (and that was almost an apparte in his conference).

They improved a lot of whatever goal he presented theml.
Further more, the players themselves are a tigher group that what I have seens in years (according to them).

As for the consultant part.
  • How can you judge me with so little information?
  • What can you tell about me B4 posting this comment?
  • Do you know me in any form?

I will give you a joke to relax the tension: here Joke 1 is my favorite one about consultants.
I do agree with you that Carbo has improved and the team has gotten better. By mentioning his Jack Adams nomination I was just proving the point. But I wasn't putting him in Bowman's league, not by a long shot.


As for the consultant part, it wasn't a judgement of you. I was merely stating that if you are an independant consultant, you would have more flexibility. Allowing you to work for more than one company, anywhere in the world. Compared to working as a consultant for one particular company. lol...so no I don't know you in any way shape or form. I was just making a general statement.

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06-20-2008, 07:58 AM
  #62
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Those of you who voted no, would not trade Pacioretty in a deal for say Kovalchuk or Eric Staal. Thankfully none of you are BG.

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06-20-2008, 08:15 AM
  #63
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
Common Montreal, comming from you its a bit suprising. Yes getting rid of a prospect is always painful but if it can make your team win now it has to be considered. Perhpa Pac is ready, we won't know for sure until he steps in the lineup. We have been waiting for a guy like Latendresse for so long and we are still waiting IMO, we where waiting for a big center and had one in our system that had all the tools in Marcel Hossa. He even proved that he could be one of the top AHL performer yet he never came.

I don't think anyone is suggesting to get rid of Pac and I don't think the word expandable is the rigth term either but there is no reason not to listen to a deal that would involve Pac if the return includes a missing piece that we have bee having for a long time...

I am not stating that we should trade him for a Jamal Mayers of this league either. What I am saying is say there is a team that wants him and is ready to pay the price... Lets imagine Horton wants out of florida per example...would'nt you listen?

I would...
As I said, you aren't likely to get high value for him, in that I'd be very surprised if teams were willing to give up something great. yes I would trade him for someone like Vinny or Iggy or Malkin but I just don't see how you would get one of those players unless we gave up a ton and then we just weaken ourselfs at other spots.

As for Lats and Hossa, Lats we all knew he had skating/mobility concerns and Hossa while highly skilled imo did show a willingness to avoid contact in Hamilton. I recall do reports on games I was at that I couldn't locate Hossa on the ice as he was at times using his invisible mode. I can't think of the last time we had a prospect like Pacioretty, so if it's taken us this long to land one, why the hell would we just turn around and move him? We sorely need players like Pac, we should be looking at acquiring players like him, not trading him for short term results.

And Horton, no freaking way I would trade Pac for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougHarvey View Post
Those of you who voted no, would not trade Pacioretty in a deal for say Kovalchuk or Eric Staal. Thankfully none of you are BG.
Well if we are talking about dreamland, yea I'd trade Pac for Kovalchuk. I'm sure the Thrashers would just love to move one of the top goal scorers in the league.

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06-20-2008, 08:17 AM
  #64
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You wont have Kovy or Staal for MaxPac.

I prefer keep 3 or 4 good young player than a superstar who become UFA in 2 years. I don't care if we don't win THIS years. This team is looking good right now, keep the good work and develop.

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Old
06-20-2008, 08:59 AM
  #65
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It's on days like today that I realy enjoy this site. It's seems that most here are relaxed and awaithing for some...thing...big to happen!
I say keep MP unless it's for someone like Malkin witch makes little to no sense for me cuause Pits could never get what he is worhed.IMHO.
The one thing Bob did do during the season was stock the farm team. Was it so and making these draft choices more expendable?

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06-20-2008, 09:45 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 77otto View Post
It's on days like today that I realy enjoy this site. It's seems that most here are relaxed and awaithing for some...thing...big to happen!
I say keep MP unless it's for someone like Malkin witch makes little to no sense for me cuause Pits could never get what he is worhed.IMHO.
The one thing Bob did do during the season was stock the farm team. Was it so and making these draft choices more expendable?
If Malkin leaves Pits, hes going to a western team, why? Well as Pierre McGuire put it, "He would destroy, Crosby,Fleury, Gonchar when he sees them" because thats the type of player he is. He would gun for those all stars if he plays in the East.

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06-20-2008, 09:54 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by KBstyle View Post
You wont have Kovy or Staal for MaxPac.

I prefer keep 3 or 4 good young player than a superstar who become UFA in 2 years. I don't care if we don't win THIS years. This team is looking good right now, keep the good work and develop.
Obviously , as part of a package deal. There are at least two dozen players I would love to get if it meant including him.

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06-20-2008, 01:01 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
I thought the philosophy was returning to the old Habs dynasties days where we build through the draft and trade the older established talent to make room for younger, cheaper talent and keep that constant flow?

The situation has changed dramatically since the 1970s: Salary caps, arbitration, free agency (at a fairly age for both UFAs and RFAs). There's a lot more player movement today. Pittsburgh were able to build through the draft because the Pens had top 5 picks 5 years in a row but they also made a number of trades and signed free agents. Now they're faced with the possibility of losing useful players who are still in their 20s (Hossa, Malone, Orpik).

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