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Update: RDS - Avery and Straka will not be Re-signed (Post #190)

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Old
06-20-2008, 11:46 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by slim399 View Post
I actually think Sather has done an above average job overall for us over the years... the only big complaint I have about him is exactally this, he is a moron when it comes to resigning his own players!
He's not necessarily a moron, but he handles it oh so very poorly.

Simply put, he's a bully and a hardliner. And while that is a necessary trait, you need a little carrot as well.

To circumvent the cap, you need value. Value comes either in youth, well structured longterm deals, and hometown discounts. Other than Straka, he hasn't been able to develop the loyalty and dialogue to pursue hometown discounts. I hate Lou Lamarillo more than anyone, but he has always invoked quite a bit of loyalty in players. It's even insulated him against RFA offer sheets so far (the idea of no one going after Martin baffles me).

Glen is a "my way or the highway" type of GM. That's great and all, but you need players to speak highly of him as well as the organization. Over the last few years, scores of players haven't been resigned and they all say the same thing, "Glen didn't even as much call me..." If you show these players a little respect, they will remember it and tell others. There is no reason in my mind why you don't tell a Sykora (who I hate as a player), "Petr, we appreciate your time as a Ranger, but we're going in a different direction...maybe a little later, you may again fit in our plans...thanks again."

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06-20-2008, 11:46 AM
  #52
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Strengths are in goal and up the middle...............if they spend the money this yr on the D then they will have a great D for yrst to come too

I know it's alot of money but getting Campbell and Orpik gives them one of the best D's for yrs to come

Just imagine

Camptell, Staal
Tyutin , Girardi
Orpik, Potter, Sanguinetti

I say go that route so C, G and D is real strong and young.............then fill in the Wings with young players

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06-20-2008, 11:51 AM
  #53
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From an outsiders perspective, I think this is a pretty good move by Sather. Essentially, he's saying "if you want to stay, stay. Otherwise, I see other UFA's that are as good or better and they'd be happy to come here and take your place."

You know Avery, Jagr, and Rosival's agents are playing the game of "We're going to test the market and if you don't want that to happen, then you'll pay X".

Sather simply called their bluff.

Good, strong, assertive GMing.

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06-20-2008, 11:52 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
From an outsiders perspective, I think this is a pretty good move by Sather. Essentially, he's saying "if you want to stay, stay. Otherwise, I see other UFA's that are as good or better and they'd be happy to come here and take your place."

You know Avery, Jagr, and Rosival's agents are playing the game of "We're going to test the market and if you don't want that to happen, then you'll pay X".

Sather simply called their bluff.

Good, strong, assertive GMing.
I think Sather also sees a mediocre FA crop and is unwilling to set the market by signing guys now.

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06-20-2008, 11:56 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I disagree with this point. I think personally if that's the route Sather is going to go then he is admitting the rebuild of 4 years ago was a complete failure. The Rangers for the most part have the guys to build around and to just take a step back and let other teams pass you by is crazy.

The Rangers don't need to rebuild again...They need to take the next step and signing Jagr, Avery, and two defenseman that fit the system and needs could make that happen....


How much will our centers be exposed if Jagr isn't getting the best defenseman matched up to his line? The time to let Jagr go isn't this season it's next season or the season after that.....Starting this all now this offseason is a recipe for disaster next season...
I don't think that would be admitting that the rebuilding was a failure. The failure is/was being reliant on two 35+ players to carry the offensive load.

And rebuilding now is very different than it was pre-lockout. Especially when you have a core of good young players (and hopefully more on the way). Look at Philly this season. They went from last in the division to the ECF.

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06-20-2008, 11:57 AM
  #56
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I think letting Avery hit the market could go down at Sather's biggest mistake as GM yet. The guy is the sparkplug on this team, and without his energy I think this team regresses.

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06-20-2008, 11:57 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think Sather also sees a mediocre FA crop and is unwilling to set the market by signing guys now.
Good point there.

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06-20-2008, 12:00 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by RinkOnEStreet View Post
I think letting Avery hit the market could go down at Sather's biggest mistake as GM yet. The guy is the sparkplug on this team, and without his energy I think this team regresses.
Change energy to scoring and its the same story as with Jagr.

The entire team will have to pick it up. A team should not be reliant on one player.

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06-20-2008, 12:07 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Change energy to scoring and its the same story as with Jagr.

The entire team will have to pick it up. A team should not be reliant on one player.
I think Callahan really picked up a lot of the energy that was missing when Avery went down, however the question is whether or not he can sustain for long periods? I also think Sjostrom will play a major role in the replacement of Avery. However I think a player in the Avery mold is necessary for a sucessful hockey club, just look at the Red Wings. I'm not saying that Avery is half the player that Holmstrom is, because he isn't, but he is a player out of the same mold. Who becomes that player for us? I'm not prepared to have another season of Ryan Hollweg in the lineup every day.

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06-20-2008, 12:10 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
From an outsiders perspective, I think this is a pretty good move by Sather. Essentially, he's saying "if you want to stay, stay. Otherwise, I see other UFA's that are as good or better and they'd be happy to come here and take your place."

You know Avery, Jagr, and Rosival's agents are playing the game of "We're going to test the market and if you don't want that to happen, then you'll pay X".

Sather simply called their bluff.

Good, strong, assertive GMing.
Not if they all walk.

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06-20-2008, 12:11 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RinkOnEStreet View Post
I think letting Avery hit the market could go down at Sather's biggest mistake as GM yet. The guy is the sparkplug on this team, and without his energy I think this team regresses.
He's also a headcase that had numerous injuries last year and is sometimes invisible on the ice. His antics are an embarrassment to our team. I won't be sad to see him gone.

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06-20-2008, 12:12 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
On Dubinsky, there's not only the chance that JJ will be gone, but also that chance that Anisimov will challenge him for a roster spot. Worst case scenario, Dubi gets traded, Anisimov doesn't make the cut, you could always get a Straka-type player to do the job on the 3rd line.
They're not going to trade Dubinsky unless it's for a player that's better than him, and that's going to be iffy and probably end up gutting the team more than it helps.

They're not going to trade Dubinsky because "well, he sucks without Jagr, lol!" and they're not going to trade him because "hey I hear this Anisimov kid might possibly be better if he ever makes the NHL"

Let's be serious. Even if Dubinsky is "only" a third line center next year, it's really damn important to have a good third line.

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06-20-2008, 12:12 PM
  #63
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Not if they all walk.
If all of those players walk, the Rangers will be in serious trouble. We can't afford to lose our #1 forward, our "#1" defenseman, and three of our top four wingers. I don't care who we sign as "depth", we will be in some serious trouble.

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06-20-2008, 12:15 PM
  #64
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Seems to me like there is a master plan at work. I don't care what happens, as long as theres a PLAN behind it that makes sense. If its going in the direction i think it is, then im happy with it.

Hopefully they dont hinge it around certain circumstances. Ie: Letting Jagr go because they want to free up cash for the big winger and Campbell. You can find yourself high and dry if you miscalculate with something like that. But I'm not all that surprised, or upset that he's not talking to the Rangers FA's before July 1st.

We all know what Avery brings to the table, and thats really the only guy I would feel concerned about losing to be totally honest. The fact that they are not negotiating while Avery is STILL around the city is only slightly alarming to say the least and i'll tell you why-

The arbitration process last year went terribly wrong because Sean opened his mouth (surprise there). Maybe Sather and the Rangers think its best for him to go into free agency rather than string out a negotiation they KNOW wont go anywhere. Plus, has the thought ever crossed your mind that the Rangers DON'T want Avery around?? Despite what he brings to the team from a fans point of view, he might not be the type of guy they want behind the scenes.

Let's not forget, the Rangers are trying to cultivate a winning and professional attitude with a lot of young talent. Not speaking to reporters, fighting with your teammates, spraying water on fans and flipping off television crews might not be in their plans moving forward. I would give the Rangers the benefit of the doubt with this scenario only because we all know how selfish a guy like Avery is. Effective on the ice or not. With the possibility of the calming father-like figure of Shanahan absent next season, and a complacent long-term deal in his pocket, Avery could go sour.

Let's not forget he had a lot of nagging injuries as well, and they have the inside prospective information on that from the doctors. It seems to me, the negatives outweigh the positives. As much as you don't want to tear apart half the team with the losses of Jagr, Avery, Shanahan, Straka, Rozy, Malik, (wish we could throw Hollweg in here too) etc... If you are destined to lose 3 or 4 of these guys, you might as well bring in pieces the compliment Gomez, Drury and Lundqvist now, rather than string this "era" on.

To me that should be the plan.

There is a ton of uncertainty surrounding this team as it is... i wouldnt force any long term contracts with the players in or outside the organization without taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture. The Rangers have a chance here to get a little creative because there are a lot of options out there whether its apparent or not to all of us. While it might be a bit of a risk to go this route, I think the Rangers have enough assets and core players to build around.

The tough thing is having the foresight to envision such a remodeling, and the trust in Sather and company to do so.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 06-20-2008 at 12:23 PM.
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Old
06-20-2008, 12:22 PM
  #65
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They're not going to trade Dubinsky unless it's for a player that's better than him, and that's going to be iffy and probably end up gutting the team more than it helps.
Obviously. I think maybe you're undervaluing his trade value though. I would like to think that Dubinsky + a prospect brings back a better player than Dubinsky, and I wouldn't consider that a "gut job".

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06-20-2008, 12:28 PM
  #66
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How does Prucha, Dawes, Callahan, and Korpedo sound?
Sounds like the AHL Calder Cup winning team.

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06-20-2008, 12:31 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Who would it be anyway? Hossa and one of Campbell or Redden? I don't think thats really even feasible unless he moves some other salaries as well.

Maybe he's going to offer sheet someone.
It's possible, especially if you send Backman to the AHL.

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06-20-2008, 12:33 PM
  #68
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I don't mind. I only want to see Jagr and Avery(for the right money) back while we pick up a ufa or two and bring up our boys to fill the slots.
I want Avery back for sure. Jagr at the right price, $5.5M, which I doubt he agrees to. Rosie at $5M I would also re-sign.

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06-20-2008, 12:36 PM
  #69
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Yup. This is the guy who dumped Matt Schneider, who was dying to play in NYC, to sign Malakhov for twice as much money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by slim399 View Post
I actually think Sather has done an above average job overall for us over the years... the only big complaint I have about him is exactally this, he is a moron when it comes to resigning his own players!

He has made it clear that he wants to resign both Avery and Jagr... so steer the fishing boat to shoar Glen, put the stoggy down, get off your arse and get the fing job done!

Put the full court press on both of them. Get Avery signed for 3 years 2.75 a year. Give Jagr his 4.9 we paid him last year with a couple mill worth of incentives and possibly an option year and be done with it!

Instead he will just sit there and sign them when he is good ready. In the mean time some dumb arse team like the leafs will offer Avery 4mill a season and then some team like montreal will offer Jags 14mill guaranteed over 2 years. And then Sather will go uh oh! We really want these guys! we better match those offers! and we are stuck with an extra 3-4 mill on our cap!

What are the other options? Huselius 4.5 mill? Langkow 5 mill? Rolston 5 mill? Ryder 3.5 mill? Hossa 8 mill? All with 4+ year longterm contracts! We are already stuck with dealing with Gomez and Drury's albatross contracts you really want to stick one of these in the mix?

Jags and Avery have proven themselves in New York. They are fan favorites and their short term deals will make it an easy transition to when the Cherepanovs, Anisimovs, Bourrets are ready and proven.

Remeber last summer when Lundqvist's agent told Sather... lets get a longterm deal worked out now for something in the range of 4.75-5.5 a year? He even blantanly told Sather if you wait you are going to end up paying more! What did Sather do... sat an his arse just like he is doing now, waited it out and ended up paying 6.8. Man that extra mill and half worth of cap space sure would be nice to have for the next 7 years.

Get it done!

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06-20-2008, 12:44 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The entire team will have to pick it up. A team should not be reliant on one player.
I think most good teams are reliant on one player at least to some extent: Crosby, Zetterberg, Ovechkin, Richards etc. It is much easier to find the spare parts than the main cog.

Without Jagr, I don't think there is anyone close to a main cog here. That doesn't mean we should necessarily keep him, but letting him go without signing another of equal value, like a Hossa, signals that the team is taking a few steps back or that Sather is an idiot.

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06-20-2008, 12:46 PM
  #71
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I'm pretty sure that Sather's plan is named John Tavares but since the NHL hates us (I've said that for a long time and now it's finally true and out in the open) that will never happen. So bad plan Sather.

(Seriously though, when the sport was in need of saving and Crosby was hailed as a savior and we had the highest chance of getting the first pick, Bettman sends him to the middle of nowhere and we get the 16th pick? Really??)

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06-20-2008, 12:46 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I think most good teams are reliant on one player at least to some extent: Crosby, Zetterberg, Ovechkin, Richards etc. It is much easier to find the spare parts than the main cog.

Without Jagr, I don't think there is anyone close to a main cog here. That doesn't mean we should necessarily keep him, but letting him go without signing another of equal value, like a Hossa, signals that the team is taking a few steps back or that Sather is an idiot.
Malkin, Datsyuk, Backstrom, and Briere all say hello. And along with those players I listed, their respective teams usually have at least another core player or two.

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06-20-2008, 12:47 PM
  #73
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I'm thinking that Dubi's...

untouchable unless a top six, young centerman comes back in the trade. This team is short on centers (and wings) for that matter.

SoS - Sather admits to nothing. If he went the save route, he'd just cite economics in the new hockey era make it difficult to retain and attract star players. The scary part is that in the end, he may end up overpaying for a "top six" forward since this team currently has about two signed and he needs at least one more.

Sather had his window, with a 100 point scorer costing under $5MM against the cap, which bought him three years - and here we are now with a big question mark. There is a bunch of young assets stockpiled - let's see what he decides to do with them.

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06-20-2008, 12:50 PM
  #74
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I'm thinking Sather may have wanted to get the media off his back & negotiate behind the scenes, not in public, also I would not rule out a big trade this weekend @ the draft.

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06-20-2008, 12:51 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RinkOnEStreet View Post
If all of those players walk, the Rangers will be in serious trouble. We can't afford to lose our #1 forward, our "#1" defenseman, and three of our top four wingers. I don't care who we sign as "depth", we will be in some serious trouble.


Won't happen............it's NY so even if they decide to go their will be others looking to sign in their spots

Jagr will be back but the others look like goners to me

I don't mind it if their big move is Brian Campbell mind you.........and I think it is!!

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