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Come Friday night, if the CBJ DO/Don't____, I will _________

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Old
06-19-2008, 10:07 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBJF View Post
I respectfully disagree - I don't think the "storm" is as real as many posters seem to believe. To say that this team is ill and can only be healed by "a big time move" seems to me o be an open invitation to impulsive or high-risk personnel moves.

I'm all in favor of major upgrades, if/when they fit into the overall plan of franchise development. Of course you have to give up something to get something, that's just the way life is. And there's always an element of risk when you swap one asset for another.

But I, personally, would not have more confidence in this team if it had obtained Richards at the cost of Leclaire, or if it had traded for the right to negotiate with Malone a couple of weeks early at the cost of a first-round draft choice (or some other useful asset).

I find it encouraging that Howson has (apparently) agreed with me on both of those. I hope he agrees with me that Marleau is not worth the No. 6 overall pick in this draft, but it won't be the end of the world if he doesn't.

I understand it's frustrating to get your hopes up for a given player and then not land him, but I don't think you can realistically fault CBJ management for failing to meet your expectations in those cases.

I agree that this team needs new blood to help it over the top and into the playoffs next season, but that doesn't mean "give us a name player at any cost" - at least, not to me. that's all I'm sayin' ....
Again, I quoted posters that suggested that Howson won't make moves to assuage fan outrage. Well of course not. Posters are reacting to what he's doing, not the other way around. What I took issue with was the suggestion that folks needed to be told this.

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Old
06-19-2008, 11:11 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by jetbluejackets View Post
That is 100% what this off-season was not to be about....your expectations are the anti "win-now"
I'm not suggesting that I would be happy if the CBJ did nothing during the off-season. I'm just not going to get all het up if Howson decides to make those "win now" moves via FAs and trades, rather than by spending first-rounders.

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Old
06-19-2008, 11:18 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by LetsGOJackets!! View Post
I just don't want to see Mr. Howson do something stupid "MacLeanesque" just to try and say he did something. If the deals aren't right draft the BPA... that is always a great fall back plan.
Exactly!

And I've seen nothing yet from Howson to suggest that he would make those types of 'mistakes'. Knowing his cap situation going into last season (one more year of Fedorov and Foote), he didn't overspend on a FA in order to make a splash in his first off-season. The moves he did make turned out to be pretty damned solid - guys who fit their roles well.

And he didn't reflexively sign Vybes or trade Z, based on the prevailing mood at the time.

I'll put my trust in Howson at this point.

Quote:
Those of us like you and I will suffer through... but the worm will turn in our favor at some point. Getting ripped off is where most clubs fail, and they do that in desparate attempts to make something good happen.
Good stuff.


Edit: IMO, Howson so far is proving to be the anti-Doug

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Old
06-19-2008, 12:19 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by contingent_23 View Post
There's writing on the wall here and some people are choosing to ignore it.

Not being to able to seal deals with two big hitters in Richards and Malone is but a symptom of the much larger problem in CBJ-Land.

We won't sign talent if we don't win. We don't win because we don't have talent. We don't have talent because our development and drafting suffered. This hamstrings us to overpay for vets on the downswing to hopefully buy time for kids that aren't going to develop anyways.

Yes, MacLean deserves a lot of blame, but A lot of people seem to be underestimating exactly how much work is needed to fix this organization.

This is the most important offseason in CBJ history to date. No more half moves and stalling measures, this team has lost the fairweather fan and now must work to not only get them back,but get them to spend money at the Nat. The owner, architect and biggest cheerleader this team ever had is dead, the future of this team in Columbus has already been questioned by the media.

We don't have the cache of the Flyers or Rangers or the system the Red Wings have. We don't have the weather the Sharks, Ducks and Kings enjoy and we don't have the History of the Pens, Habs or the Blackhawks and we don't have the loyal droves that the Wild have.

The Money doesn't want to wait much longer for a winner. The front office doesn't need to work to keep us interested, they need to work to keep the fairweather fan interested.
Frightening post, contingent. I normally skim over whiny threads like these, but your post really paints a bleak picture, and you make solid points that I agree with.

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Old
06-19-2008, 12:51 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Pucknacious View Post
I'm not suggesting that I would be happy if the CBJ did nothing during the off-season. I'm just not going to get all het up if Howson decides to make those "win now" moves via FAs and trades, rather than by spending first-rounders.
And what are our most marketable assets, besides Nash and Leclaire, which are off the table if you want to make a trade.

Zherdev, Brassard, V, Klesla, and our first round picks. If you look, everything I mentioned are top 10 picks with the exception of the 19 this year.

Our other players aren't all that interesting and the players we get back won't be all that interesting. Projects that Howson thinks could fit in here, or damaged goods in one form or another. The 2nd and 3rd rounders are nice sweatners, but will likely take more to land a good player.

The point? If your going to want to make trades that fill our holes for the "win now", most of them are going to come from the "we don't want to trade" pile. I do see a few good names in the FA pile that everyone will be targeting. But after that, we're dealing with the "win how?" players.

Be prepared to give up something if you guys really want to "win now". We're a team in the mold of swiss cheese.

A lot of people on this forum are firmly in the "build and win later mode", even though they don't realize it.

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Old
06-19-2008, 01:45 PM
  #56
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Solution

Build through the draft and trades. Free Agents will not come unless overpaid and will bolt near the end of their contract term unless the team becomes a contender. Don't waste so much time on free agents. Develop your young players to have assets in the organization. Scott Howson needs time to build the organization and no free agent will change the team all that much.

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06-19-2008, 01:48 PM
  #57
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If the Blue Jackets don't make a significant move at the draft, then there will be a long line of Hockeysfuture.com posters waiting to jump off the Broad Street Bridge.

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Old
06-19-2008, 02:32 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
And what are our most marketable assets, besides Nash and Leclaire, which are off the table if you want to make a trade.

Zherdev, Brassard, V, Klesla, and our first round picks. If you look, everything I mentioned are top 10 picks with the exception of the 19 this year.

Our other players aren't all that interesting and the players we get back won't be all that interesting. Projects that Howson thinks could fit in here, or damaged goods in one form or another. The 2nd and 3rd rounders are nice sweatners, but will likely take more to land a good player.

The point? If your going to want to make trades that fill our holes for the "win now", most of them are going to come from the "we don't want to trade" pile. I do see a few good names in the FA pile that everyone will be targeting. But after that, we're dealing with the "win how?" players.

Be prepared to give up something if you guys really want to "win now". We're a team in the mold of swiss cheese.

A lot of people on this forum are firmly in the "build and win later mode", even though they don't realize it.
Not sure how I got pegged as a "don't trade the picks" guy ...

What I am saying is that I trust Howson, at this time, to make the best decision for the CBJ. Whether that means acquiring the needed players via trading draft picks OR signing FAs if the potential returns for the picks don't meet his expectations, so be it.

Zherdev, Mason, Brule, Fritsche, Modin, Tollefsen, ... the list of marketable assets beyond Nash and Leclaire isn't a short one, IMO.

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Old
06-19-2008, 03:32 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Pucknacious View Post
Not sure how I got pegged as a "don't trade the picks" guy ...

What I am saying is that I trust Howson, at this time, to make the best decision for the CBJ. Whether that means acquiring the needed players via trading draft picks OR signing FAs if the potential returns for the picks don't meet his expectations, so be it.

Zherdev, Mason, Brule, Fritsche, Modin, Tollefsen, ... the list of marketable assets beyond Nash and Leclaire isn't a short one, IMO.
Read what I quoted from you. Not really saying your a "don't trade pick guy", more like saying that it may very well take our first round picks to do much of anything if you want to "win now".

I listed Zherdev. Modin is not, not after last year and the NTC to boot.

OKT, Fritsche, and Brule and sweatners at best. There is not going to following over to get those guys. Forgot about Mason.

Beyond Nash and Leclaire it is a very short one. They are assets we don't want to give up and would ask for a lot in return for, simply because we lack depth.

First round picks this year could be viewed as more appealing to us to move, because they other assets that we already drafted should be closer to NHL ready, they have more experience.


Last edited by blahblah: 06-19-2008 at 03:39 PM.
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Old
06-19-2008, 03:40 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Read what I quoted from you.

I listed Zherdev. Modin is not, not after last year and the NTC to boot.

OKT, Fritsche, and Brule and sweatners at best. There is not going to following over to get those guys. Forgot about Mason.

Beyond Nash and Leclaire it is a very short one. They are assets we don't want to give up and would ask for a lot in return for, simply because we lack depth.

First round picks this year could be viewed as more appealing to us to move, because they other assets that we already drafted should be closer to NHL ready, they have more experience.
Okay ... so, you've ruled out all trading except the two firsts and other picks. You're opposed to FAs? Why does the hole-filling have to be completed come draft time?

Again, the issue isn't whether the CBJ keep or trade their picks. It's whether - when all is said and done, entering the season - they've improved the team by addressing their needs at minimal cost.

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06-19-2008, 03:54 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Pucknacious View Post
Okay ... so, you've ruled out all trading except the two firsts and other picks. You're opposed to FAs? Why does the hole-filling have to be completed come draft time?

Again, the issue isn't whether the CBJ keep or trade their picks. It's whether - when all is said and done, entering the season - they've improved the team by addressing their needs at minimal cost.
It doesn't have to be. Trades can be done at other times, but you remove them as an option. So it becomes much harder. Do you really think Howson is going to want to come off Brassard, V, or Mason (which other teams are going to target)? Do you really think Brule, OKT, or Fritsche is going to net us anything but more redundant 3rd liners, at best?

Not many good bargainning chips.

We can fill some of our holes in FA, along with all the other bidders. But do you like the options available at center? I sure don't. Do you really want to try and poach a RFA? That's unreliable at best and you end up giving up a ton of good picks if they are worth anything.

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Old
06-19-2008, 03:59 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
It doesn't have to be. Trades can be done at other times, but you remove them as an option. So it becomes much harder. Do you really think Howson is going to want to come off Brassard, V, or Mason (which other teams are going to target)? Do you really think Brule, OKT, or Fritsche is going to net us anything but more redundant 3rd liners, at best?

Not many good bargainning chips.

We can fill some of our holes in FA, along with all the other bidders. But do you like the options available at center? I sure don't. Do you really want to try and poach a RFA? That's unreliable at best and you end up giving up a ton of good picks if they are worth anything.
Sounds like we're agreed, then.

I never removed trading the picks as an option. I said that I would trust Howson's decision. And if that decision resulted in not trading the picks, I wouldn't be upset.

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06-19-2008, 04:01 PM
  #63
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Whether they do it a "minimal cost" is not an issue to me.

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Old
06-19-2008, 04:15 PM
  #64
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You could be the hottest/most desperate girl at the ball, but if you stink, there's a chance no one will be willing to dance with you.

That's what sucks the most about this weekend.

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Old
06-19-2008, 05:04 PM
  #65
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If the Jackets trade our picks without receiving real value I will $@#$!

Seriously, I'd rather we draft someone than give away the store for a tired veteran. Desperation does not help our negotiating position.

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Old
06-19-2008, 09:28 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macster View Post
Frightening post, contingent. I normally skim over whiny threads like these, but your post really paints a bleak picture, and you make solid points that I agree with.
Geez, they finally got to you Mac.
You haven't even moved here yet and you've developed an inferiority complex about Columbus.

Ever been to Pittsburgh or Deetroit? The "town" and weather has nothing to do with the kind of quality players a team can attract. Saw it on Mythbusters, I think.

Deetroit and Pittsburgh achieved success through widely different means. One by great scouting, building and retaining talent, and selling tradition. The other by drafting well. Howson ain't done building the ship, hell...he's hardly started! ...so I ain't jumping off it just yet.

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06-20-2008, 07:00 AM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JACKETfan View Post
Geez, they finally got to you Mac.
You haven't even moved here yet and you've developed an inferiority complex about Columbus.

Ever been to Pittsburgh or Deetroit? The "town" and weather has nothing to do with the kind of quality players a team can attract. Saw it on Mythbusters, I think.

Deetroit and Pittsburgh achieved success through widely different means. One by great scouting, building and retaining talent, and selling tradition. The other by drafting well. Howson ain't done building the ship, hell...he's hardly started! ...so I ain't jumping off it just yet.
Yes, thank you!

Two back-to-back seasons of playoff-caliber hockey will cure all of these supposed "crisis" situations. And there's every reason to believe the current management team has this franchise on the verge of exactly that kind of stable success.

The Cycle of Suck can be broken, mostly by getting high return on the assets available to invest (including draft choices and salary cap space). And everything Howson has done so far has been consistent with that approach.

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Old
06-20-2008, 07:27 AM
  #68
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You haven't even moved here yet and you've developed an inferiority complex about Columbus.
Man, that's been bugging me for months.

I heard that Jeff Carter re-signed with Philly because he didn't want to be put in a situation where he might have to make a decision about signing or not signing with Columbus, by the way. The ****er!

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06-20-2008, 07:52 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by TBJF View Post
Yes, thank you!

Two back-to-back seasons of playoff-caliber hockey will cure all of these supposed "crisis" situations. And there's every reason to believe the current management team has this franchise on the verge of exactly that kind of stable success.

The Cycle of Suck can be broken, mostly by getting high return on the assets available to invest (including draft choices and salary cap space). And everything Howson has done so far has been consistent with that approach.
this offseason isn't even over yet, how can you say there's every reason to believe that we are on the verge of two solid seasons of playoff caliber hockey? Playoff Caliber by Eastern Conference standards?

Howson has been consistent yes, but he's had to work with almost a clean slate as far as players. Once again, its fine to blame MacLean for that, but its now on Howson's shoulders.

Until I see things change here, I'm not believing they will, at least not practically overnight... Tonight is the first salvo, it needs to be a big one and it needs to be loud.

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06-20-2008, 08:10 AM
  #70
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At this point, I'd just settle for more goal scoring and more consistent physical play. Playoffs are #3 in my book, so that I don't get too disappointed if we don't reach them again next year.

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06-20-2008, 08:17 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by contingent_23 View Post
... Tonight is the first salvo, it needs to be a big one and it needs to be loud.
Maybe Howson and crew brought the cannon to sit next to their draft table!

...and now the CBJ pick #6.......wait....we have a trade.........

Columbus trades the #6 pick to ______ for _________!!!



For those about to rock.......
Booooooooommmm

...we salute you!!

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Old
06-20-2008, 08:36 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by EDM View Post
Whether they do it a "minimal cost" is not an issue to me.
So then trading the 19th, say, for the rights to get an early jump on the field in negotiating with Malone (pre-announcement from Malone) wouldn't have bothered you?

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06-20-2008, 09:01 AM
  #73
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Cautiously optimistic

Yes, I am optimistic going into tonight. A number of reasons:

Howson has proven to be solid in drafting talent. Just look at last year! We are foaming at the mouth to see Voracek in Columbus this season, did any of us beleive that that was going to happen at this time last year. Couple that with the drafting of Legin in the second round, well, I think Howson knows to trust his scouts and let them give the input he needs. I trust that that the number 6 pick will be a stud.

If he does trade it away, he has stated (on 1460, Hitch's show last week) that he had 3 players in mind that would be available and worth the pick. That, to me, shows that he has a handle on the situation.

Do yourself a favor and listen to the latest Cannon Fodder. Reed and Porty do a good job projecting what may happen. I tend to agree with their assessment.

In essence, it will be difficult to get a number 1 center, but if we can get a solid #2 to play with Nash, it will be a huge upgrade over what we have had in the past. I don't think Howson needs to swing for the fences tonight, he just needs to do the solid job that he has shown that he can do to make this weekend, and the summer, a success.

If he can continue to upgrade the talent, by adding a Malone, a Schenn, and Umbarger, well, I think better days are not only ahead, they are here.

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06-20-2008, 01:03 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by contingent_23 View Post
this offseason isn't even over yet, how can you say there's every reason to believe that we are on the verge of two solid seasons of playoff caliber hockey? Playoff Caliber by Eastern Conference standards?
Well, since you asked, it's called logic and rational thought.

This team missed the playoffs by what, 10 points? Despite Vyborny's mysterious season-long slump, and the first injury-plagued year of Modin's career, an off-year by Noreena and all of the same currently crippling infirmities the negativists see for the coming season.

This is a young team, will add probably Brassard, possibly Voracek, maybe the No. 6 pick from the draft (some folks say Schenn is NHL-ready ). And there are other promising youngsters - Russel may surprise some folks, and even Klesla could take a step (although I admit that may be wishful thinking).

Last year, Howson basically got Hejda and Novotny for nothing, and Peca for a very fair price. You figure he can't find a couple more contributors this season, with the cap money he has available? His taste in free agents alone should be worth 10 points.

For this team to miss the playoffs next season, I believe the wheels would have to fall off (that being, a major injury to Nash or Leclaire). They have a stud young goaltender, one of the top pure goal-scorers in the league and they play hard and as a unit (usually).

I won't guarantee or promise anything (stuff happens, ya know?), but I definitely see this team as being solidly in the playoffs next season, and quite probably for seasons afterwards. If things blow up, as long as management doesn't over-react in panic mode, it will be delayed a season - a bad thing, but not terminal by any stretch of the imagination.

We have nothing to fear but fear itself.

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