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OT: Malkin Back to Russia?

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Old
06-20-2008, 11:45 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everest View Post
If the 'big names' are making 10-12M/year or anything close to that...the league will be laffably unbalanced.

The top players will be totally unchallenged/spoiled and ultimaltey disinterested.

There is nothing compelling about a 10 million dollar star walking around a 10000 dollar scrub.
If we knew exactly what their plans are we could make statements like that.

But there's nothing preventing Gazprom from paying players directly as a for instance.

These guys are serious IMO and to discount them entirely because they aren't following NA protocols could be a big mistake. They don't have to play by our rules and likely won't.

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06-20-2008, 11:47 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
I can't find the link any longer but IIRC the business model they were going to use was pay one or two big names on each team big bucks and fill out the rest of the team with lower priced players.
Per KHL rules, a player's salary isn't counted against the cap if said player is lured away from the NHL. Likewise, if a KHL player receives an offer from NHL club, his KHL team has the right to match NHL offer despite the KHL salary cap.

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06-20-2008, 11:51 AM
  #28
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they should trade him to Montreal for Ryder, Halak, and a 2nd.

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06-20-2008, 11:52 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Per KHL rules, a player's salary isn't counted against the cap if said player is lured away from the NHL. Likewise, if a KHL player receives an offer from NHL club, his KHL team has the right to match NHL offer despite the KHL salary cap.
There you go. Thanks.

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06-20-2008, 11:52 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Per KHL rules, a player's salary isn't counted against the cap if said player is lured away from the NHL. Likewise, if a KHL player receives an offer from NHL club, his KHL team has the right to match NHL offer despite the KHL salary cap.

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06-20-2008, 12:12 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zine View Post
Per KHL rules, a player's salary isn't counted against the cap if said player is lured away from the NHL. Likewise, if a KHL player receives an offer from NHL club, his KHL team has the right to match NHL offer despite the KHL salary cap.
Do you have a link for this?

I've been trying to find more info on how this cap is supposed to work, and all I get is what I've already posted in this thread:

http://icehockey.wikia.com/wiki/Cont..._Hockey_League

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06-20-2008, 12:18 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
If we knew exactly what their plans are we could make statements like that.

But there's nothing preventing Gazprom from paying players directly as a for instance.

These guys are serious IMO and to discount them entirely because they aren't following NA protocols could be a big mistake. They don't have to play by our rules and likely won't.

I totally understand any 'cap structure' in the KHL is likely smoke and mirrors.

Smoke and mirrors work both ways though. If somebody has a scheme to 'sign' a player to a HUGE 'contract' in the KHL...they will also have a scheme to break that promise down the road.

Furthermore: If I were an NHL owner...I'd call the bluff on any super offers from the KHL. If the KHL has any lasting power...they have to deliver on these promises. If they don't...NHL players are going to exit the league en-masse before they ever go over there in the first place.


If I were Malkin...I'd take a trustable 8-10 million dollar pay cheque from an accountable NHL owner before I'd sign anything from a league with no prior history.

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06-20-2008, 12:20 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
I totally understand any 'cap structure' in the KHL is likely smoke and mirrors.

Smoke and mirrors work both ways though. If somebody has a scheme to 'sign' a player to a HUGE 'contract' in the KHL...they will also have a scheme to break that promise down the road.

If I were Malkin...I'd take a trustable 8-10 million dollar pay cheque from an accountable NHL owner before I'd sign anything from a league with no prior history.
You're not and he's Russian. That changes everything.

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06-20-2008, 12:23 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
You're not and he's Russian. That changes everything.
Well,no I'm not Malkin. I am Russian though. I have seen/heard from other players who have went over there.

I'd suggest the first thing this new league has to do is establish credibility and this Malkin rumour is hard to live up to,at the very least.

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06-20-2008, 12:28 PM
  #35
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Not sure how much this can be trusted, but this was an interesting post on Mirtle's blog a while back from an anonymous poster:

Quote:
Ilya Kovalchuk was asked by eg.ru in the past couple of weeks if he would consider playing in the new KHL and he said he wouldn't play in Russia again even if they offered him $20 million a season. While the salaries can compete with the NHL, the overall lifestyle still lags behind. Especially for someone who has experienced the NHL lifestyle in North America. They have to carry their own bags, and unload their equipment (which Kovalchuk is stilled pissed about.)
Granted that it's not likely a consensus opinion from the young Russian superstar contingent, but IMO it still raises a valid point about lifestyle and what star players expect.

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06-20-2008, 12:28 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
I don't care how rich the owners are (you can't sustain those kind of salaries) unless they aren't really interested in having a profitiable league.

It's possible but I sense more of a scare tatic then an actual offer.
I agree with your statement. It's when they have built the infrastructure (arenas, divisions etc.) that the NHL has to start worrying. Hopefully they'll have spent all their money by then.

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06-20-2008, 12:30 PM
  #37
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The IIHF have weighed in on the rumor

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=15773

Quote:
“Although there will be no imminent Player Transfer Agreement between the IIHF and the NHL, all involved parties are in principal agreement to honour each other’s contracts,” says IIHF President René Fasel. “The NHL has informed the IIHF that this will be the policy of the league during the period without a PTA, and conversely, the IIHF has obligated its member national federations and leagues to do the same in its relations with the NHL.”

“We would view any signing, from either side, of a player under a valid contract, who does not have any legally valid out-clause, to be a clear violation of the mutual understanding and existing principle. It would potentially be punishable with suspended national team eligibility and suspension from all competition or activity organized by the IIHF or any IIHF member national association. This would include events like the Olympic Winter Games, the IIHF World Championship or international club competitions like the Champions Hockey League."

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06-20-2008, 12:49 PM
  #38
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If he goes, good luck to him and good luck to the KHL, but really I don`t care.

It is time for he NHL, the media, and its fans have to stop playing the role of the insecure teenage girl. You know what, we aren`t always going to get to have the specialist, new purse (Malkin) whenever we want it. Nor will we likely ever be Paris Hilton (NHL), but life isn`t bad in the middle class household (NHL) in which we exist.

The constant gnashing of teeth, rending of hair gets tiresome. Specially when it is preemptive gnashing and rending.

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06-20-2008, 12:51 PM
  #39
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So he disappears in the playoffs, has Russian teams chasing him all over the place I wonder if Pitts makes the mistake of moving him and keeping Hossa.

The Oilers dont have the assets to move unless Hemsky and Gagner are in play. If the Oilers didn't sign Penner, we'd probably have a top 5 pick too. Ah who am I kiddin ... pipe dream

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06-20-2008, 12:53 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
If he goes, good luck to him and good luck to the KHL, but really I don`t care.

It is time for he NHL, the media, and its fans have to stop playing the role of the insecure teenage girl. You know what, we aren`t always going to get to have the specialist, new purse (Malkin) whenever we want it. Nor will we likely ever be Paris Hilton (NHL), but life isn`t bad in the middle class household (NHL) in which we exist.

The constant gnashing of teeth, rending of hair gets tiresome. Specially when it is preemptive gnashing and rending.
Whats tiresome is being told by NHL 'sources' that this type defection from the NHL is actually possible. Most people do not/have not/will not buy into the logic...yet its out there.

Show me where the NHL isn't a bigger market than any other hockey league before you show me bigger contracts than NHL deals.

DSF is reminding us of a time when the WHA stole top NHL talent...but a lot has changed since 1975. Really bothersome to be inundated with unsupportabl rumours regarding Malkin's apparent complete and utter lack of intrerest in the NHL.

Just because he doesn't speak good english he wants to go home?


Last edited by Everest: 06-20-2008 at 01:04 PM.
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06-20-2008, 01:03 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Whats tiresome is being told by NHL 'sources' that this type defection from the NHL is actually possible. Most people do not/have not/will not buy into the logic...yet its out there.

Show me where the NHL isn't a bigger market than any other hockey league before you show me bigger contracts than NHL deals.

DSF is reminding us of a time when the WHA stole top NHL talent...but a lot has changed since 1975.
A defection is where someone risks their life to flee a country. This would be a case of a multi-millionaire being lure away by a multi-billionaire to become a bigger multi-millionaire. It would bring an small decrease to the overall product the NHL provides, but so would it be if he is crushed into the boards and concussions finish his career.

The NHL is the biggest hockey league, at least in North America. I don`t know why an even higher league in Russia would change that.

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06-20-2008, 01:08 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
A defection is where someone risks their life to flee a country. This would be a case of a multi-millionaire being lure away by a multi-billionaire to become a bigger multi-millionaire. It would bring an small decrease to the overall product the NHL provides, but so would it be if he is crushed into the boards and concussions finish his career.

The NHL is the biggest hockey league, at least in North America. I don`t know why an even higher league in Russia would change that.
Malkin is driven by the same desires as Ovy,Kovy or any other Russian star. He wants to be considered amongst the best in the world. He has 'all time aspirations'. He very nearly out did this years hart Trophy winner with a Stanley Cup.

I see no plausiblity whatsoever in leaving all that behind for a marginal/temporary spike in earnings.

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06-20-2008, 01:23 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Malkin is driven by the same desires as Ovy,Kovy or any other Russian star. He wants to be considered amongst the best in the world. He has 'all time aspirations'. He very nearly out did this years hart Trophy winner with a Stanley Cup.

I see no plausiblity whatsoever in leaving all that behind for a marginal/temporary spike in earnings.
I think we are discussing two completely different matters. If I understand correctly, you are questioning why he would leave. While I am saying I do not care if he does.

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06-20-2008, 01:29 PM
  #44
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I think we are discussing two completely different matters. If I understand correctly, you are questioning why he would leave. While I am saying I do not care if he does.
Do you also start fist fights by saying: "Go ahead...take the first shot."?

Just saying...Most people DO care if one of the top players in the world left the NHL AND also understand why he is NOT going to leave the NHL.

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06-20-2008, 01:35 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Everest View Post
Do you also start fist fights by saying: "Go ahead...take the first shot."?

Just saying...Most people DO care if one of the top players in the world left the NHL AND also understand why he is NOT going to leave the NHL.
Well, honestly I don`t start fist fights, never have. But this is not a fist fight, this is business and sometimes people don`t get what they want when they do business. If he leaves, it will be too bad on a small level (the 1 time every 2 years I will get to see him in town), but it will not be the pre-cursor to a mortal blow to the NHL so many people seem to be worrying about.

Sell what you have, be it with Malkin or without.

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06-20-2008, 01:37 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
Well, honestly I don`t start fist fights, never have. But this is not a fist fight, this is business and sometimes people don`t get what they want when they do business. If he leaves, it will be too bad on a small level (the 1 time every 2 years I will get to see him in town), but it will not be the pre-cursor to a mortal blow to the NHL so many people seem to be worrying about.

Sell what you have, be it with Malkin or without.
Not a mortal blow,no...but a big enough hit that the NHL isn't going to stand there and take it off the chin. I mean...come on.

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06-20-2008, 01:48 PM
  #47
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Not a mortal blow,no...but a big enough hit that the NHL isn't going to stand there and take it off the chin. I mean...come on.
What should they do in response? They should not get in a pissing match with the KHL and end up looking bush-league, like they do every time they get in a negotiation. Nor should they get in a money battle with Russian oligarchs.

Personally the best I think they can do is to ensure there is a rule in place that does not allow a player's rights to lapse from the team that held them before that player went to any other league. They should recognize that the league is bigger than 1 or 100 players and that they would be better off focusing on continuing to improve the product on the ice.

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06-20-2008, 02:01 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Section337 View Post
What should they do in response? They should not get in a pissing match with the KHL and end up looking bush-league, like they do every time they get in a negotiation. Nor should they get in a money battle with Russian oligarchs.

Personally the best I think they can do is to ensure there is a rule in place that does not allow a player's rights to lapse from the team that held them before that player went to any other league. They should recognize that the league is bigger than 1 or 100 players and that they would be better off focusing on continuing to improve the product on the ice.
I don't think the first pissing match is for the NHL to get involved. At this point its the IIHF who need to flex authority and they do have the clout required.

More importantly...the IIHF has a LOT more invested with the NHL than what the KHL ever will. I would not go so far as to say the IIHF is now an NHL puppet...but there are some strings for sure. Big strings,at this time...because we are in 'Pre- Olympics mode' right now.

So...I seriously doubt the NHL feels threatened in the least.

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