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Roloson proposal

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Old
05-31-2004, 04:06 PM
  #51
Mizral
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Harding is a pretty amazing goaltender prospect in my eyes.

Barnabyrules, you are shortchanging the Wild big-time.

As I said before, Roloson straight across for Tallinder, Biron, and a draft pick (2nd rounder or so) would likely be around the asking price I'd expect if I was the Wild GM.

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05-31-2004, 05:18 PM
  #52
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Biron would be nice coming back but I'm not sold on Tallinder...

Jillson on the other hand...

 
Old
05-31-2004, 05:26 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Biron would be nice coming back but I'm not sold on Tallinder...

Jillson on the other hand...

Biron and Jillson?This is too much for a guy in his mid 30's,regardless of his ability.Roloson isn't going to make Buffalo a cup winner.

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Old
05-31-2004, 05:48 PM
  #54
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He actually could. There was a time that I thought Buffalo was going to the playoffs last year.

 
Old
05-31-2004, 09:00 PM
  #55
LALALALALALAFONTAINE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnabyrules
IMO Roloson right now is a better goaltender than Biron but Biron is much younger and since the Wild don't really have an amazing goalie prospect I would probally take Biron for Roloson straight up. Saying that I think that trade would be slightly tilted in Buffalo's favor maybe a 2nd or 3rd would even it out.

As for Roloson and Mitchell, for me it would take something like this:

TO BUF
Dwayne Roloson
Willie Mitchell

TO MIN:
Martin Biron
2nd Round Pick
Jason Pominville

I'm not very familar with Buffalo's prospects other than Vanek and Miller but Pominville looks like a sniper and a goal scorer with 2nd line potental which is what the wild are looking for.

Also I love Mitchell and it would take alot to take him away if I were a GM so this might be an overpayment on Buffalo's part(depends on how good Pominville is).
Done.

Pominville is a pretty good prospect, but not as good as Vanek or Miller. On the Sabres boards, I think he was the 4th ranked prospect, so that gives a pretty good indication.

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Old
05-31-2004, 09:31 PM
  #56
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Luongo is the most overrated player in the NHL. Take a closer look at his statistics.

Had Luongo faced the exact same number of shots as Brodeur (1845 shots), and kept the same save % (.931), he would have let by one less goal every three games. What a huge difference..

Thats to say he could even keep the same save % on a team that gives up 10 less shots for him to save a night.

But all this stat talk is just garbage. Hockey is not a stat-based game. Saying Luongo is the best goalie in the world is laughable at best. Brodeur does his job, he wins games and doesn't let by goals. Luongo loses games and lets by goals. Brodeur has a Calder, Vezina, 3 Cups, and a Gold Medal. Luongo has a 22-33 record and was nearing the draft lottery. Brodeur will hold every goalie record in Games Played, Wins and Shutouts before his career is over. Luongo will not. Brodeur has proven to be the best over a decade, Luongo has proven nothing. Brodeur's career playoff Save % nears Luongo's best season, in many more games. Luongo wears 38" Trucks on his legs, Brodeur wears 34" ones.

Brodeur is the most decorated Goalie in the NHL today. Luongo has nothing but one stat.

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Old
05-31-2004, 10:19 PM
  #57
Mizral
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DownfromNJ,

Great post. This is precisely why I still feel Save % isn't worth half of what GAA is. Sure GAA is a team stat, but good goaltenders on a bad team can have decent GAA's, wheres bad goaltenders on good teams generally do not have great GAA's. This isn't always flawless, but I still like it better than Save %.

Another couple things to note:

When teams go into Florida, they are going in there to shoot the lights out because, well, they can. They are firing pucks from everywhere. When they go into NJ, they know their shots are more limited, so they are shooting less low percentage shots.

As well, almost any goaltender will tell you they'd rather see 30 shots a night than 20 shots. More shots does not always mean a tougher game. In fact, most of the time, it means it's going to be easier.

Luongo will be a fine goaltender, but his Vezina nod was an absolute joke.

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Old
06-01-2004, 09:53 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DownFromNJ
Luongo is the most overrated player in the NHL. Take a closer look at his statistics.

Had Luongo faced the exact same number of shots as Brodeur (1845 shots), and kept the same save % (.931), he would have let by one less goal every three games. What a huge difference..

Thats to say he could even keep the same save % on a team that gives up 10 less shots for him to save a night.

But all this stat talk is just garbage. Hockey is not a stat-based game. Saying Luongo is the best goalie in the world is laughable at best. Brodeur does his job, he wins games and doesn't let by goals. Luongo loses games and lets by goals. Brodeur has a Calder, Vezina, 3 Cups, and a Gold Medal. Luongo has a 22-33 record and was nearing the draft lottery. Brodeur will hold every goalie record in Games Played, Wins and Shutouts before his career is over. Luongo will not. Brodeur has proven to be the best over a decade, Luongo has proven nothing. Brodeur's career playoff Save % nears Luongo's best season, in many more games. Luongo wears 38" Trucks on his legs, Brodeur wears 34" ones.

Brodeur is the most decorated Goalie in the NHL today. Luongo has nothing but one stat.
All this stat talk is just garbage: Calder is a stat, Vezina is a stat, Cups are a stat, games played, wins and shutouts are all stats. If you think stats are garbage, why do resort to it?

Hockey for the most part, isn't a statistical game. Goaltending IS statistical. A lot
of goaltending is measured by save percentage.

One goal every three games is a huge difference. You've almost described a 30 goal scorer.

Wins, a statistic, are a team statistic. Cups, a statistic, are a team statistic. At least Calder and Vezina Trophies are individual statistics. And a Calder trophy doesn't compare Brodeur with other goalies, necessarily, but with other players. If you want to compare Vezinas, Brodeur is absolutely dominated by Hasek. And Luongo will match Brodeur after this year in all likelihood. Games played, a statistic, is something a coach controls. Wins, which you are citing again, are a team statistic. Shutouts are partially a team statistic. You LOVE statistics, but only the meaningless ones that support the guy on your team. If you don't think Brodeur might have fewer Cups, wins or shutouts without Stevens or Niedermayer, you are kidding yourself.

Brodeur's career playoff save percentage is very good. That certainly shows that Brodeur is an excellent playoff goalie, but also note that the Devils made it to the Cup with Brodeur playing terribly.

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Old
06-01-2004, 10:05 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
DownfromNJ,

Great post. This is precisely why I still feel Save % isn't worth half of what GAA is. Sure GAA is a team stat, but good goaltenders on a bad team can have decent GAA's, wheres bad goaltenders on good teams generally do not have great GAA's. This isn't always flawless, but I still like it better than Save %.

Another couple things to note:

When teams go into Florida, they are going in there to shoot the lights out because, well, they can. They are firing pucks from everywhere. When they go into NJ, they know their shots are more limited, so they are shooting less low percentage shots.

As well, almost any goaltender will tell you they'd rather see 30 shots a night than 20 shots. More shots does not always mean a tougher game. In fact, most of the time, it means it's going to be easier.

Luongo will be a fine goaltender, but his Vezina nod was an absolute joke.
GAA is more meaningful than save percentage? So Lalime had a better playoffs than Belfour? Lalime had a better season than Giguere or Luongo? Hasek had his worst season ever, but still had a respectable GAA. All that says is he played on a good defensive team.

The "goaltenders preferring 30 shots to 20 shots" is simply an anecdote, and is without evidence. In fact, the teams giving up more shots tended to have the WORSE save percentages. Florida was the exception? Why?

The bottom 5 teams giving up the most shots (rank in parentheses):
Florida 34.5 .922 (3)
Pittsburgh 33.2 .889 (30)
Columbus 32.0 .909 (13)
Washington 31.5 .902 (25)
Chicago 30.7 .897 (28)

The top 5 teams who gave up the fewest shots:
Dallas 23.2 .908 (14)
New Jersey 24.4 .918 (5)
Ottawa 24.9 .907 (16)
TB 25.4 .908 (15)
Calgary 25.5 .916 (7)

The above numbers contradict what you say.

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Old
06-01-2004, 10:23 AM
  #60
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Luongo. the most valuable goaltender in the league and the only reason FLA didnt give up 20 goals a game.

Veniza. Best goaltender. For a goalie to face so many shots and win so many 1-0 games is amazing.

he has consistancy problems, but their minor.

The only people who complain are NJD fans. who cant handl anyone being better than Brodeur. like avsmonkey's complained about Hasek and the goalie changes.

thy must protect thy records. ********. make the game better. that's no.1 prority. and luongo will make this game more noticalbe and more people sit up and see how good this kid can be.

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