Dave, as good as Cole is, in terms of trhe comnplete skill package, he doesn't seem to put up th enumbers you'd expect, esp. judging by how he plays against Mtl.
Is it due to playing with a 'shoot first' C, if he's played with Staal ? Just a matter of staying healthy consistently ? I've got this half baked theory [one of many] about players who with the quality of theor goals, blind you to the lack of quantity.
I know, if I think about stuff like this, I've got too much time on my hands.
Sorry it took so long to get back to you, had to look into some numbers to back myself up.
I think a lot of how Cole does depends on him having a real playmaker on the same line. I don't think Staal took too much away from Cole but it's definitely possible. Stillman was the primary playmaker on that line, so when his production dropped off so did Cole's. In December it really took a hit and it wasn't until the Canes had to shift lines around with the addition of Samsonov and the Stillman trade that he picked up again. If I recall correctly he picked up in production again when Whitney was put on that line after the Brind'Amour injury. If he's put with a good playmaker he can be one of the hardest players around to go up against, but the key is putting him with a playmaker that's consistently productive.
Odd as it seems I think last year may have been a bit of an aberation in terms of his production on the downside. It was the lowest shooting percentage he's had since his rookie year. If he shoots his career average (minus last year) he's closer to a 30 goal player last year, if he shoots his post-lockout average from the other two seasons, he's flirting with 40.
I'm trying to think of who might be a good fit for him to play with on the Canadiens, I think Staal has a little to do with Cole's output, but I honestly think last year was a fluke more then anything. I'd expect him to get back to at least a 30 goal level this year assuming he plays more then 70 games. With the intangibles he brings (two-way play, physicality, his speed) he has a pretty good contract. Unfortunitely with the continued salary increases I'm not sure how much a team would have to shell out for him for his next deal, it will probably be pretty heavy whoever it is.
Not entirely true or false as the entire team seems to take their cue from Eric Staal: if Staal is hot, the team is hot. If he's not, the team isn't. Same can be said with Cole; check his numbers after Brindy went down. Much better than the rest of the season. Cole with a decent center will still rock.
However, with the reasons DaveG gave, these two clubs don't make good trading partners.
I kind of like the idea of Cole with Koivu but you're right, I don't see a need match, unless the Canes were stepping back and loading up with kids, and I don't see that being in the cards right now. Plus it makes more sense for Mtl to go on the ufa market and not give up assets.
Sorry it took so long to get back to you, had to look into some numbers to back myself up.
I think a lot of how Cole does depends on him having a real playmaker on the same line. I don't think Staal took too much away from Cole but it's definitely possible. Stillman was the primary playmaker on that line, so when his production dropped off so did Cole's. In December it really took a hit and it wasn't until the Canes had to shift lines around with the addition of Samsonov and the Stillman trade that he picked up again. If I recall correctly he picked up in production again when Whitney was put on that line after the Brind'Amour injury. If he's put with a good playmaker he can be one of the hardest players around to go up against, but the key is putting him with a playmaker that's consistently productive.
Odd as it seems I think last year may have been a bit of an aberation in terms of his production on the downside. It was the lowest shooting percentage he's had since his rookie year. If he shoots his career average (minus last year) he's closer to a 30 goal player last year, if he shoots his post-lockout average from the other two seasons, he's flirting with 40.
I'm trying to think of who might be a good fit for him to play with on the Canadiens, I think Staal has a little to do with Cole's output, but I honestly think last year was a fluke more then anything. I'd expect him to get back to at least a 30 goal level this year assuming he plays more then 70 games. With the intangibles he brings (two-way play, physicality, his speed) he has a pretty good contract. Unfortunitely with the continued salary increases I'm not sure how much a team would have to shell out for him for his next deal, it will probably be pretty heavy whoever it is.
I think we're all pretty well on the same page, Koivu would be a good fit for him, but you guys aren't looking to re-load so the #1 and an O'bryne probably wouldn't be right. Maybe in terms of value, but not in need.
I seriously can't stand his face. He's got one of those faces you just want to punch.
Thats really funny cause I've felt that way too since I first saw him against the habs years ago. I bet you saw the same game. He was in everyones face.
I say we gun for Columbus' top Prospect Jakub Voracek in exchange for a 1st+prospect. Appearently this kid is a big elite forward, and lets face it,we won't get any of those at Draft spot 25.
I say we gun for Columbus' top Prospect Jakub Voracek in exchange for a 1st+prospect. Appearently this kid is a big elite forward, and lets face it,we won't get any of those at Draft spot 25.
I'm with you. All we have to do now is to get hf posters in positions of authority with the Blue Jackets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blueberry
Thats really funny cause I've felt that way too since I first saw him against the habs years ago. I bet you saw the same game. He was in everyones face.
It started with that Gilmour thing, and then he denied it afterwards. I hate when guys won't own up to stuff.
Last edited by Beakermania*: 06-20-2008 at 10:58 AM.
You can't possibly have better wingers on your top three lines.
At Centers now:
Plekanec (very good, but small)
Koivu (okay, small, on the decline)
Lapierre (4th liner)
Chipchura (4th liner)
Begin (4th liner)
Smolinski (4th liner)
We've got depth, but it sucks. Just a bunch of 4th liners IMO. No one who can pivot a line that can score and play well defensively. You can't possibly put two of the above wingers with either Chipchura or Lapierre and expect him to play up to his potential offensively. Higgins will never score 40 if his center is Lapierre.
I think we're all pretty well on the same page, Koivu would be a good fit for him, but you guys aren't looking to re-load so the #1 and an O'bryne probably wouldn't be right. Maybe in terms of value, but not in need.
Exactly. Honestly if the Canes keep Cole and don't have a good season for whatever reason (coughdefensecough) that's the type of move I think JR will be looking to make. Koivu, yeah he'd be a really good fit for Cole, that line would give people absolute fits. Great two-way play and Koivu's the type of guy that could make Cole a 35+ goal guy.
I'd love cole, but they want an established D... not the D prospects that we can easily trade for him....
they can have the 25th and one of obyrne/fischer/weber/emelin/carle/valentenko for him as far as i'm concerned... but I don't think this is what Carolina has in mind.
He would be a good fit, but it sounds like they want an established top-4 d-man more than anything else. I don't think we have one to spare.
Past that, I just think that with modern wide open free agency, it's better to explore that market first. Maybe you can fill a spot on your team without have to trade the kinds of assets that another team is going to want back for a good player like Cole.
Sorry it took so long to get back to you, had to look into some numbers to back myself up.
I think a lot of how Cole does depends on him having a real playmaker on the same line. I don't think Staal took too much away from Cole but it's definitely possible. Stillman was the primary playmaker on that line, so when his production dropped off so did Cole's. In December it really took a hit and it wasn't until the Canes had to shift lines around with the addition of Samsonov and the Stillman trade that he picked up again. If I recall correctly he picked up in production again when Whitney was put on that line after the Brind'Amour injury. If he's put with a good playmaker he can be one of the hardest players around to go up against, but the key is putting him with a playmaker that's consistently productive.
Odd as it seems I think last year may have been a bit of an aberation in terms of his production on the downside. It was the lowest shooting percentage he's had since his rookie year. If he shoots his career average (minus last year) he's closer to a 30 goal player last year, if he shoots his post-lockout average from the other two seasons, he's flirting with 40.
I'm trying to think of who might be a good fit for him to play with on the Canadiens, I think Staal has a little to do with Cole's output, but I honestly think last year was a fluke more then anything. I'd expect him to get back to at least a 30 goal level this year assuming he plays more then 70 games. With the intangibles he brings (two-way play, physicality, his speed) he has a pretty good contract. Unfortunitely with the continued salary increases I'm not sure how much a team would have to shell out for him for his next deal, it will probably be pretty heavy whoever it is.
Playmaker you say.... .Koivu would fit perfect with Cole....
Getting cole(if available for the right price) not only addresses a need for a gritty scoring winger but also shows that on top of the young guns we have, we are committed to winning this year. That would be a major asset in negotiating in the free agency market. Just like briere did with philly, he saw they were ready to make changes to succeed. As a player wouldn't it be safer to go to a team that says you're the last piece of the puzzle rather than saying you're the second last?
Would I give a roster player for cole? No, especially not higgins as some would suggest, although a fair trade, it doesn't do much for us in terms of improving our team. Removing a potential 30 goal scorer whos a two way player for another two way player with similar potential. Waste of time, only way i'd get cole is if he adds to our core.
Hey guys dont post much often but i am always reading, but anyways i just heard on the team 990 that there is a chance the habs might get eric cole from carolina. Not starting anything here, but just giving some info on the news i heard.
I'd love cole, but they want an established D... not the D prospects that we can easily trade for him....
they can have the 25th and one of obyrne/fischer/weber/emelin/carle/valentenko for him as far as i'm concerned... but I don't think this is what Carolina has in mind.
The rights to a 65 points D-man like Streit could be a great start.
