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Old
06-22-2008, 01:06 AM
  #26
TeamTippett
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here's a stat for you:

Michalek, +9
Morris +8
Ballard +7
Boynton -9
Yandle -12
Jovanovski -13
Jones -13




Now I know some of "us" are not thrilled about this stat, but it does show a great disprency between some of our blue line players.

It's my opinion defensive parings are about match-ups, teh DMo/ Ballard pair did it's best work against the other teams top lines, and their +/- refelect that in part.

All I'm saying your top paring shouldn't be the defensive liability that JoVo is, I love him and I think he is key to our sucess, but not the top pair. Perhaps it's a Tomato vb. Tamato debate. IDK.

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06-22-2008, 01:14 AM
  #27
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I want to see Porter make your team next year, but man, you sure have a lot of fowards now.

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Old
06-22-2008, 01:19 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeamTurris View Post
It's my opinion defensive parings are about match-ups, teh DMo/ Ballard pair did it's best work against the other teams top lines, and their +/- refelect that in part.

All I'm saying your top paring shouldn't be the defensive liability that JoVo is, I love him and I think he is key to our sucess, but not the top pair. Perhaps it's a Tomato vb. Tamato debate. IDK.
And to that end, that means basically unless you team has a guy like Lidstrom, you don't have a top pair. You run out the best players in a given situation.

My only real disagreement was with calling Ballard and Dmo the top pair. While you could disagree with Michalek and Jovo as the top pair I think it was even more of a stretch to call Ballard and Dmo the top pair. Really all we have a pointed out is that on a team like the Yotes the concept of a top pair is false.

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Old
06-22-2008, 11:05 AM
  #29
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to some extent your right, i just think we shouldn't change JoVos roll here (not that anyone was sugesting) One thought I had with JoVo's hight TOI time, he & Mueller were beeing doule shifted on Power Plays for the last quarter or so of the season.

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Old
06-22-2008, 12:10 PM
  #30
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Doan-Jokinen-Mueller
Carcillo(Turris protection) - Turris - Lisin
Ufa/Winnik-Hanzal-Rhino/Boedker
TQ-Ufa/Winnik-Weller
extra: UFA Heavyweight (Parker/Shelley?)

essentially a number 1 line, lines 2a & 2b, and a 4th line. Possible to have 3 high-end second lines if we move Turris with Doan/Mueller, Jokinen with Carcillo/Lisin, and the UFA is Brunette or Vrbata with Hanzal/Rhino or Boedker.

Jovo-Z
Morris-Yandle (let Morris tutor Yandle)
UFA-UFA (new shutdown line - Foote-Finger would be Fantastic)
extra: Jones/Ahnelov(prefer he is in SA)/Teppo

fyi - there is no #1 dman line (don't want to go there), that's just how they are listed.

Bryz
Telly (at somepoint we trade Telly for 2009 pick and bring up Montoya)

Caveats:
- If Boedker stays past his 10 day limit, Rhino is trade bait
- If one of Porter/Kolarik/MacLean/Tikhonov prove they are NHL ready we move Weller or the UFA we sign.

fyi - I'm only talking about signing one UFA who will play on either the 3rd or 4th line above. Criteria for the contract/type of player is:
a value mid-tier (~ $2M - $4M 3 years or less WITHOUT a no-trade clause) UFA (unlike a bargain low-tier like Mike York last season) of the likes of Vrbata/Brunette/Holik/Hagman/Fedotenko/Stillman/Chris Gratton. Whoever slips through the cracks after the initial few days of UFA signing begins.

My heavyweight UFA is a separate case and is not included in my regular lineup.

I know everyone wants at least a couple of Porter/Kolarik/MacLean/Tikhonov on the Coyotes but I'm still adding 3 rookies and this is my lineup to start the season, I would hope at least 1 of these 4 is a permanant fixture by midseason with Rhino or the UFA forward being traded

While this may take ice time/NHL experience away from one of those 4 players, it could also prevent the negatives from rushing them (keep in mind Mueller spent that season in Everett and I don't think any of those 4 are on his level anyways); it would allow them to grow together in the minors; when injuries hit, they are going to get some NHL experience; and, if one shows they are unquestionably ready for the NHL, we have some trade bait (Rhino and/or the UFA) to help us get some extra picks for the 2009 draft which is supposed to be one of the best.

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Old
06-22-2008, 12:36 PM
  #31
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Doan-Jokinen-Mueller (if they click, this is a no brainer)
Reino - Turris - Lisin
Carcillo-Hanzal-Porter
Winnik/Kolarik-Tikhonov-TQ

Jovo-Michalek
Morris-UFA
Yandle-Stephenson

As much as it would look nice on paper, you can't have four fairly one-dimensional scoring lines. That's why I see Tikhonov and the college kids beating out newcomers Boedker and MacLean for spots on the lower lines, while these two spend another year to fill out and work on their defensive games. Lisin might get beat out, but I just think the '86-born Michigan players will be better equipped to make the jump.

I see Tikhonov as more of a role player, so it won't hurt his development to have fourth line minutes. We need a shutdown defender to pair up with Morris.. it'd be nice if Ross or Jones would progress to the point where they could fill this void, but I think we have to add from outside the org. Yandle is a serviceable 3rd pairing guy who can produce on the PP, but I'd be weary of giving him 20+ minutes a night.

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Old
06-22-2008, 12:40 PM
  #32
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Doan Jokinen Mueller
Carcillo Turris Rhino
Porter Hanzal Lisin
Kolarik Winnik Weller
TQ

Jovo Z
Morris Yandle
Jones Foote?

Bryz
Telly

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Old
06-22-2008, 01:05 PM
  #33
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If Boedker doesn't make the team, I'm thinking.

Turris -- Jokinen -- Doan
Mueller -- Hanzal -- Lisin
Porter -- Rhino -- TQ
Carcillo -- Winnik -- Weller

Extras here or in SA: Bourret, Kolarik, Tikhnov

It'd be nice to see Bourret on the fourth line opposite Carcillo perhaps. The more I think about it, the more I think Bourrett is the tough guy (though not really a heavyweight) who can play a regular shift that Gretzky was looking for. Note I'm not sure that he will successfully fill the role, but I think that was the reason we may have picked him up. He's being penciled in as a bottom six winger with the occasional burst of offense, imo. I think they are hoping to use him like they have done with Carcillo and give him a chance right away.

Red line had him in the top 10 forwards that year. Interesting article:
"And rounding out Red Line's top 10 is hyper aggressive winger Alex Bourret. Built like a bowling ball at 5-10/208 pounds, he's like a heat-seeking missile who throws his body recklessly and is an extremely disruptive force on the forecheck. Though he has a big shot off the wing, he doesn't possess quite the natural scoring prowess of a similarly styled player such as Brulé, or the size of other power forwards like Skille and Latendresse, which is why Red Line has him rated a cut below the top tier."
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...e-report_x.htm

Perhaps they hope to work some magic with him like they did for Carcillo (who many people, including me, thought was a worthless throw in).
EDIT: The 90th pick was the one we acquired in the Laraque trade -- It would be great if both Carcillo and Bourret panned out and provided the intensity that Laraque lacked bringing us full circle.


Last edited by _Del_: 06-22-2008 at 01:15 PM.
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Old
06-22-2008, 02:56 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsGoCoyotes View Post
I'll give it a try.

Doan-Jokinen-Mueller
Lisin-Turris-Boedker
Carcillo-Hanzal-Reinprecht
Winnik-Porter-Kolarik

We'll need to add some toughness on the blueline.
That is one, FAST and Scary lineup!

Man, I so envy you for your draft picks!!

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Old
06-22-2008, 03:02 PM
  #35
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I don't like seeing Yandle getting top four minutes most of the potential line-ups. He didn't show us anything to suggest that he's ready for 20+ minutes a night, last season. In fact, for most of the year, he looked like an AHLer in the NHL. I'm not writing him off, in fact I felt like a Yandle apologist, around here, for much of last season. I think he's got bit time potential, but at the same time, I think he got more second chances last season than he deserved. I wanted him sent down all year, despite being a big fan. I think he'll be better this season, but not top four better. Just that he'll make less glaring mistakes, now that he's got some more experience, and will contribute a bit more, now that he'll be a bit more comfortable. I would put him on the bottom pairing, with a veteren defensive defenseman.

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Old
06-22-2008, 03:11 PM
  #36
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Completely agree on Yandle. But when you have only 3 top 4 defensemen currently, you're bound to see Yandle in the top four in the projected line ups as people try to guess what we end up with. I didn't even try to guess for my line up. I'll save for later when it's a little more clear who will actually be on the roster.

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Old
06-22-2008, 03:23 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Del_ View Post
Completely agree on Yandle. But when you have only 3 top 4 defensemen currently, you're bound to see Yandle in the top four in the projected line ups as people try to guess what we end up with. I didn't even try to guess for my line up. I'll save for later when it's a little more clear who will actually be on the roster.
I'd go with...

Jovanovski-Michalek
Morris-(UFA/Trade)
(UFA/Trade)-Yandle


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Old
06-22-2008, 05:01 PM
  #38
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Dont even pencil Hossa in, he is a waste.Youll see the more he plays youll see why MTL gave up on him and NYR, Phx will be next to do it. He is lazy and inconsistent. About all the time. Once in a blue he will go on a hot streak for like 3 or 4 games,where you will be wowed, but dont expect it to stay.

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Old
06-22-2008, 05:02 PM
  #39
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I think that if Carcillo was to be resigned, there will be trades being made to bring in a pair of defensemen. A pair of young prospects like MacLean, Kolarik, Porter, etc. are going to packaged in the trades to acquire veteran defensive help, in my opinion.

Another thing i've noticed on this board is that some of you Yotes fans are moving Turris to the wing, i highly doubt Gretzky will do that as Turris is a very responsible two-way forward and will be used as such. Turris stays at Center, again, my opinion.

Hanzal will be used as a shutdown defender, and will not be moving to the wing. Again, this is just my opinion.

Boedker is not a center so i dont know why some of you are putting him in that spot. Another thing that should be mentioned is Gretzky's belief that Boedker is near NHL ready and will be given a legitimate shot at a top 6 role.

With all this said, i see your lineup being:

Doan, Jokinen, Mueller
Carcillo, Turris, Boedker
Porter, Hanzal, Lisin
Winnik, Reinprecht , kolarik

I can see a pair of Porter, Lisin, Kolarik, MacLean, Tikonov being packaged for a guy like Kubina or McCabe.

Jovo, Michalek
Morris, Kubina/McCabe
Yandle, (UFA)

Bryzgalov
Montoya/Tellqvist

Phoenix is so fortunate to have such a deep prospect pool.

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Old
06-22-2008, 05:07 PM
  #40
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Just because we traded two veteren, depth defenseman for a 29 year old, number one center, doesn't mean that we are going to give up on the re-build, and started trading off top prospects for guys like McCabe or Kubina. We need depth defenseman, and there are plenty on the UFA market.

Also, I agree about Turris and Hanzal, but Reinprecht is equally effective as a wing. He's the guy I'd move over. Also, he makes too much money, and produces too many points for the fourth line. He'll be on one of the first three.

Finally, expect the team to add a veteren tough-guy. Wayne has said he wants one. Wayne gets what he wants.

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Old
06-22-2008, 05:16 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainSundin13 View Post

I can see a pair of Porter, Lisin, Kolarik, MacLean, Tikonov being packaged for a guy like Kubina or McCabe.


Phoenix is so fortunate to have such a deep prospect pool.
Clearly this is coming from a Toronto point-of-view. I agreed with most of your insight, but this point nearly induced vomit. Neither McCabe or Kubina, with their heavy price tags, entices me in the least.

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Old
06-22-2008, 05:33 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgyotes View Post
Clearly this is coming from a Toronto point-of-view. I agreed with most of your insight, but this point nearly induced vomit. Neither McCabe or Kubina, with their heavy price tags, entices me in the least.
i said i could see something like this happen, not necessarily for these two guys. It could easily be for other defensemen on other teams.

However, i'm going to have to disagree with the fact that you think Kubina/McCabe is overpaid as he would immediately make you guys better. Same goes for McCabe. Both of these guys are top 4 defensemen and both of these guys eat up alot of minutes.

As for haulting the rebuild, trading away two prospects (non-bluechip prospects) isn't goign to stop your organizations rebuild. Two prospects like porter, lisin, kolarik for a top 4 D is easily more beneficial for your franchise then mine. I would not want toronto to give up Kubina or McCabe for just two of those, but its just something i could see happening.

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Old
06-22-2008, 05:41 PM
  #43
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Reinprecht is equally effective as a wing. He's the guy I'd move over. Also, he makes too much money, and produces too many points for the fourth line. He'll be on one of the first three.
I see your point, but in Gretzky-land, I am not sure there is a fourth line. It could well be that had to do with the lack of talent on the team, but it may also be that Gretzky (much like Francis) really does like to have balance over the lines so he can roll them out and have the offense come in waves.

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Old
06-22-2008, 05:43 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainSundin13 View Post
Two prospects like porter, lisin, kolarik for a top 4 D is easily more beneficial for your franchise then mine.
Wow, then it would have to be devestating for your's.

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Old
06-22-2008, 05:44 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by CaptainSundin13 View Post
I would not want toronto to give up Kubina or McCabe for just two of those, but its just something i could see happening.
In that case, we can both hope it does not happen.

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Old
06-22-2008, 08:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by CaptainSundin13 View Post

With all this said, i see your lineup being:

Doan, Jokinen, Mueller
Carcillo, Turris, Boedker
Porter, Hanzal, Lisin
Winnik, Reinprecht , kolarik

I can see a pair of Porter, Lisin, Kolarik, MacLean, Tikonov being packaged for a guy like Kubina or McCabe.

Jovo, Michalek
Morris, Kubina/McCabe
Yandle, (UFA)

Bryzgalov
Montoya/Tellqvist

Phoenix is so fortunate to have such a deep prospect pool.
I could see your projected lines being pretty close. I think that Rhino will be a wing on the second or third line and that Porter might be more likely to be the 4th center.

I don't see the team giving up the rebuild to acquire pricey veteran D-men. The only way that the young talent pool gets shaken up IMO is to acquire young, talented blue-liners or to target a specific player in next year's draft. Also, there's no way that the Yotes trade away Tikhonov after gicing up picks to move up and grab him. He may surprise with bottom 6 minutes this season. Just my $.02 worth.

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Old
06-22-2008, 08:22 PM
  #47
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I don't see the team giving up the rebuild to acquire pricey veteran D-men. The only way that the young talent pool gets shaken up IMO is to acquire young, talented blue-liners or to target a specific player in next year's draft. Also, there's no way that the Yotes trade away Tikhonov after gicing up picks to move up and grab him. He may surprise with bottom 6 minutes this season. Just my $.02 worth.
I think it's pretty clear the team expects Tikhonov to make the squad out of training camp.

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Old
06-22-2008, 08:45 PM
  #48
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Here's my crack at it:

Doan-Jokinen-Mueller
Lisin-Turris-Vrbata (resigns)
Winnik-Hanzal-Reinprecht
Carcillo-Porter-Boedker

Jovanovski-Michalek
Mara-Morris
Rozsival-Jones

Bryz
Montoya/Tellqvist

Those are my guesses....something along those lines (no pun intended).

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Old
06-22-2008, 09:14 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainSundin13 View Post
Another thing i've noticed on this board is that some of you Yotes fans are moving Turris to the wing, i highly doubt Gretzky will do that as Turris is a very responsible two-way forward and will be used as such. Turris stays at Center, again, my opinion.

Hanzal will be used as a shutdown defender, and will not be moving to the wing. Again, this is just my opinion.

Boedker is not a center so i dont know why some of you are putting him in that spot. Another thing that should be mentioned is Gretzky's belief that Boedker is near NHL ready and will be given a legitimate shot at a top 6 role.

With all this said, i see your lineup being:

Doan, Jokinen, Mueller
Carcillo, Turris, Boedker
Porter, Hanzal, Lisin
Winnik, Reinprecht , kolarik

I can see a pair of Porter, Lisin, Kolarik, MacLean, Tikonov being packaged for a guy like Kubina or McCabe.

Jovo, Michalek
Morris, Kubina/McCabe
Yandle, (UFA)

Bryzgalov
Montoya/Tellqvist

Phoenix is so fortunate to have such a deep prospect pool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rt View Post
Just because we traded two veteren, depth defenseman for a 29 year old, number one center, doesn't mean that we are going to give up on the re-build, and started trading off top prospects for guys like McCabe or Kubina. We need depth defenseman, and there are plenty on the UFA market.

Also, I agree about Turris and Hanzal, but Reinprecht is equally effective as a wing. He's the guy I'd move over. Also, he makes too much money, and produces too many points for the fourth line. He'll be on one of the first three.

Finally, expect the team to add a veteren tough-guy. Wayne has said he wants one. Wayne gets what he wants.
Captain Sundin's post adjusted with RT's responses are spot on, although I see Kolarik in the AHL & Porter possibly to start the season there.

It makes absolutely no sense to trade excellent 2nd tier prospects for those type of dmen, who we already have, and there is pretty large pool of UFA dmen available.

I do agree our prospect pool is stocked and at some point some will be traded, but probably for an elite forward (similar to the Pens trade for Hossa) in a year or 2.

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Old
06-22-2008, 09:14 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
Here's my crack at it:

Doan-Jokinen-Mueller
Lisin-Turris-Vrbata (resigns)
Winnik-Hanzal-Reinprecht
Carcillo-Porter-Boedker

Jovanovski-Michalek
Mara-Morris
Rozsival-Jones

Bryz
Montoya/Tellqvist

Those are my guesses....something along those lines (no pun intended).
I'd love to see Vrbata re-signed. Love the look of your lines but I think that I would swap Winnik and Boedker. That lineup could be scary good.

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