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06-22-2008, 02:34 PM
  #76
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This also doesn't include Matthias or Frolik...

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06-22-2008, 02:36 PM
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Basically we should have never taken Boynton. We need to get rid of Van Ryn and Stumpel.

Thankfully we have a lot of money off the books but we will have to spend some to replace bodies so it wont be as much as we would like.

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06-22-2008, 02:37 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
Can you honestly say we are in a better position now, with Boynton instead of the money we could have?

Nothing is confusing. You just weren't making any sense before by saying top 4 dman=top 6 forward. I said the correct thing to say is base it on salary and then you can look at what might be available. Also2-4 million is quite the range for an average forward.

Based on your retarded calculations...We need a number one center and complimentary top 6 forwards.

They have great Dmen and also have forwards who help out and are responsible. But they would not have as good as D if they didn't have the forwards coming back and helping them out.
We are in almost the exact same position now as before the Olli trade. We take on less than 1 mil. It will not hinder us at all in signing a UFA forward, since I don't see us going after Hossa or any other 7+ mil player anyway.

2-4 mil is quite the range for an average forward? I still don't know what you mean by this and what you are trying to imply. What do you mean by 'average'?

It's not retarded calculations. It's very simple. We scored 10 more goals than NJ last year. We lose 34 goals. So we have 23 to make up. Matthias will score between 5-10. So we need 13-18. I'll even spot you 2. So we need 15-20 goals to be "comparable" to NJ in your view. Impossible to make up? I really don't think so. That is VERY reasonable.

Please, Anaheim's and Detroit's forwards are not even 1/2 the reason they have two of the top 3 defense corps in the East. They help out yeah, Detroit much more than Anaheim, but like I said you need to have the personnel on the blueline to support a defensive philosophy.

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06-22-2008, 02:42 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
We are in almost the exact same position now as before the Olli trade. We take on less than 1 mil. It will not hinder us at all in signing a UFA forward, since I don't see us going after Hossa or any other 7+ mil player anyway.

2-4 mil is quite the range for an average forward? I still don't know what you mean by this and what you are trying to imply. What do you mean by 'average'?

It's not retarded calculations. It's very simple. We scored 10 more goals than NJ last year. We lose 34 goals. So we have 23 to make up. Matthias will score between 5-10. So we need 13-18. I'll even spot you 2. So we need 15-20 goals to be "comparable" to NJ in your view. Impossible to make up? I really don't think so. That is VERY reasonable.

Please, Anaheim's and Detroit's forwards are not even 1/2 the reason they have two of the top 3 defense corps in the East. They help out yeah, Detroit much more than Anaheim, but like I said you need to have the personnel on the blueline to support a defensive philosophy.
Why did we take a bottom pairing d-man who will be second to Bouw in terms of pay? With more cap space we have more options, period. I don't know why this is debatable.

I'm done talking to you about your other points as it will go nowhere.

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06-22-2008, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
Again, words in my mouth. Mind-numbinglybetter? give me a break kid. Pando, Madden, and Brylin are significantly better than any three guys we have. Don't even try to argue this. I think I can expect Laus and Zero to back me up on this one. Come on man, this is ludacris.

Matthias? ROFL, how can you even add him. Campbell? ROFL, Dvorak and Peltonen? the guys who everyone here wants bought out or traded ?
I am putting words in your mouth? ORLY? You said that we have nowhere near the defensive forwards that NJ has. I don't think you are even remembering what you are saying in this thread. I don't think Pando, Madden, and Brylin are significantly better than Weiss, Olesz, and Kreps, if at all. Madden is clearly better than anyone we have, but not by a landslide over Weiss or Olesz. It's pretty close. Pando= Weiss. Weiss, Olesz, and Kreps are all better than Brylin.

How can I even add Matthias? Because unlike you, I don't talk out of my butt. I've seen him play in 11 games total this season between NHL, WJC, OHL, and the Memorial Cup. He is better defensively than half of our forwards already. He was widely regarded as the best two-way player in all of junior hockey last season. Campbell.....yeah, he's on our PK, chief. People wanting Dvorak and Peltonen bought out has nothing to do with their defensive play...in fact it's the opposite. They provide little offense and we already have enough good two-way forwards, we don't need guys that only offer defensive play like DVo and Pelts. Your spin machine is disgusting. Did Pelts not kill penalites for us the last two years? Was Dvo not brought in as a PK specialist/someone that would draw PP's with his speed? Was Dvo not our best defensive forward early on in the season?

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06-22-2008, 02:56 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
Why did we take a bottom pairing d-man who will be second to Bouw in terms of pay? With more cap space we have more options, period. I don't know why this is debatable.
Again, spin on, DJ! Your argument is that after the Olli trade, we are now hindered in our efforts to sign a UFA forward. When actually, that is not the case at all.

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06-22-2008, 02:59 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
I am putting words in your mouth? ORLY? You said that we have nowhere near the defensive forwards that NJ has. I don't think you are even remembering what you are saying in this thread. I don't think Pando, Madden, and Brylin are significantly better than Weiss, Olesz, and Kreps, if at all. Madden is clearly better than anyone we have, but not by a landslide over Weiss or Olesz. It's pretty close. Pando= Weiss. Weiss, Olesz, and Kreps are all better than Brylin.

How can I even add Matthias? Because unlike you, I don't talk out of my butt. I've seen him play in 11 games total this season between NHL, WJC, OHL, and the Memorial Cup. He is better defensively than half of our forwards already. He was widely regarded as the best two-way player in all of junior hockey last season. Campbell.....yeah, he's on our PK, chief. People wanting Dvorak and Peltonen bought out has nothing to do with their defensive play...in fact it's the opposite. They provide little offense and we already have enough good two-way forwards, we don't need guys that only offer defensive play like DVo and Pelts. Your spin machine is disgusting. Did Pelts not kill penalites for us the last two years? Was Dvo not brought in as a PK specialist/someone that would draw PP's with his speed? Was Dvo not our best defensive forward early on in the season?
I never said mindnumbingly better, you did. Those are the words.

11 games? O my! That is statistically insignificant!

Go ask about Brylin and Madden and Pandalfo. See what you get from other teams fans. Your homerism is insane. They are some of the best defensive forwards in the game. Brylin, Madden, and Pandalfo are top defensive forwards!

Dvorak and Pelts are a dime a dozen. Campbell kills penalties and is ok at it. Hardly noteworthy. Sorry you want this team to be better than it is.

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06-22-2008, 03:00 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
Again, spin on, DJ! Your argument is that after the Olli trade, we are now hindered in our efforts to sign a UFA forward. When actually, that is not the case at all.
Lets see. With Boynton we have 3 million less to spend. Without Boynton we have 3 million more to spend. Hmmmm.......

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06-22-2008, 03:06 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by BabyJagr View Post
Different eras... Different hockey... And a clone is not expected to be as good, he is just the same !
They are nothing alike. And a clone would actually look the same, which they do not.

However, I do agree that Ballard should project to be an excellent defenseman.

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06-22-2008, 03:09 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
Lets see. With Boynton we have 3 million less to spend. Without Boynton we have 3 million more to spend. Hmmmm.......
We still have the top money JM wanted to invest in a top defenseman...

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06-22-2008, 03:10 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
It's not retarded calculations. It's very simple. We scored 10 more goals than NJ last year. We lose 34 goals. So we have 23 to make up.
What the hell is going on here. Someone failed math class.

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06-22-2008, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by BabyJagr View Post
We still have the top money JM wanted to invest in a top defenseman...
Doubt. If JM goes and signs a top d-man I'm going to cry. We need forwards.

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06-22-2008, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratmanfu View Post
They are nothing alike. And a clone would actually look the same, which they do not.

However, I do agree that Ballard should project to be an excellent defenseman.
Ballard is an offensive defenseman, turned into an amazing shut-down guy, with loads of character and grit, willing to stand up for his teammates, with captain-like leadership abilities... He is also a stocky kid, standing at 5'11 and over 200 lbs... He is a workhorse in the gym and on the ice, he is already training for next season.

That looks like a Chelios-clone for me !

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06-22-2008, 03:14 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
Lets see. With Boynton we have 3 million less to spend. Without Boynton we have 3 million more to spend. Hmmmm.......
I think the plan all along has been to remove Van Ryn from the equation. Taking Boynton ensures that JM can rid himself of Van Ryn without having to rely on Cullimore/Magnus/Mezei/Murphy.

Is it a smart move? If he can find a taker for Van Ryn, it could be. In any event, Boynton brings more physicality to this team than any of those 5 aforementioned dmen could. And, we definitely need the muscle.

Overpriced? Yeah, I agree, but it is what it is.

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06-22-2008, 03:15 PM
  #90
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Doubt. If JM goes and signs a top d-man I'm going to cry. We need forwards.
I meant... We still have this supposed money to invest in a forward... Since we are all-set defensively, Martin said it, he said Ballard fit the need of a puck-moving d !

I was basically saying we will invest this money in a forward ! We were supposed to have something like 6 millions to invest in a top-player, we just have to get rid of Stumpel and another body after signing Hossa to a 5-years 42.5 millions contract !

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06-22-2008, 03:15 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
I never said mindnumbingly better, you did. Those are the words.

11 games? O my! That is statistically insignificant!

Go ask about Brylin and Madden and Pandalfo. See what you get from other teams fans. Your homerism is insane. They are some of the best defensive forwards in the game. Brylin, Madden, and Pandalfo are top defensive forwards!

Dvorak and Pelts are a dime a dozen. Campbell kills penalties and is ok at it. Hardly noteworthy. Sorry you want this team to be better than it is.
Come on, how lame do you want to look here. At least save a little face. Our forwards being "Nowhere near as good" as NJ's defensively............and NJ's forwards being "mind-numbingly better" than ours defensively is the same thing. Even a 5th grader reading through this thread can understand that.

You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Matthias' defensive game, but hey, that's to be expected.

Again, why do you need other people to argue for you???? Could it possibly be that you don't know what you're talking about? No, that couldn't be it.

Again, keep spinning all you want. I never said Dvo, Pelts, and Campbell were defensive monsters. You listed all of NJ's defensive forwards, I listed ours.

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06-22-2008, 03:18 PM
  #92
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Today's secret word is: Hyperbole.

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06-22-2008, 03:21 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
Come on, how lame do you want to look here. At least save a little face. Our forwards being "Nowhere near as good" as NJ's defensively............and NJ's forwards being "mind-numbingly better" than ours defensively is the same thing. Even a 5th grader reading through this thread can understand that.

You have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to Matthias' defensive game, but hey, that's to be expected.

Again, why do you need other people to argue for you???? Could it possibly be that you don't know what you're talking about? No, that couldn't be it.

Again, keep spinning all you want. I never said Dvo, Pelts, and Campbell were defensive monsters. You listed all of NJ's defensive forwards, I listed ours.
Sigh.

Brylin, Madden, Pandalfo>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any 3 Panthers

Please, Matthias may be good in a couple of years but he still needs to fill out. He'll get pushed around by men, remember he is still a boy.

Its not people arguing for me as I have done an excellent job refuting your delusional claims. It is just to show you that more people agree with me than with you. But go ahead and live in your fantasy world where the PAnthers have a great D and legit forwards. ROFL.

Notice how no one is backing up your points. People love to say I'm wrong but even my most ardent haters haven't picked your side because it is completely wrong. sorry, you're wrong.

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06-22-2008, 03:24 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneOfTheHockeyGods View Post
Please, Matthias may be good in a couple of years but he still needs to fill out. He'll get pushed around by men, remember he is still a boy..
Thats why we got Boynton and Ballard, for more physical play when **** like that happens. Allen and Skrastins can hit too. We got Belak for fights too.


You need to seriously get over you're self, we are ALL backing him up, along with TSN's review of the trade and EVERYONE on the official bored. You and a few new people are the ONLY people arguing.

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06-22-2008, 03:26 PM
  #95
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Not sure where we get the cap space considering Hossa turned down a 7 year 49 million contract. Say he is 8 and then Bouw gets 7.. That is 15 million! Based on nhl numbers we have 15 million available and that doesn't include Belak, Campbell, Kreps, Olesz, and Bouw. I know we will be shedding salary next offseason but there is no way this season we can afford him unless Bouw signs a one year deal or Martin gets rid of Stumpel/Van Ryn/Peltonen.
That is exactly what I said. I am assuming that Bouwmeester only gets signed for one year at 5 million tops. ALSO I guarantee Hossa doesn't command more than 7 million per year. I don't think he wants to play for Pittsburgh for one reason or another. So we have 7 million for Hossa, 5 million for Bouwmeester and 3 million for Belak, Kreps, Olesz. I am guessing they buy out Van Ryn. which gives them 3 million in wiggle room. Teams always find ways to make it work.

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06-22-2008, 03:28 PM
  #96
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Thats why we got Boynton and Ballard, for more physical play when **** like that happens. Allen and Skrastins can hit too. We got Belak for fights too.


You need to seriously get over you're self, we are ALL backing him up, along with TSN's review of the trade and EVERYONE on the official bored. You and a few new people are the ONLY people arguing.
LOL, hoax, the guy who said Jokinen was a playmaker, ot losses dont count when calculating winning percentage, and Matthias will fill in for Jokinen. Hey pal!

I'm not talking about fighting or getting beaten up. I'm talking about faceoffs and fighting for the puck in the corners. this has nothing to do with fighting. He lines up against a guy like Holik or Jokinen they are going to run through him.

Link me please.

The main board thinks this is a bad trade for the Panthers!!!!

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06-22-2008, 03:29 PM
  #97
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That is exactly what I said. I am assuming that Bouwmeester only gets signed for one year at 5 million tops. ALSO I guarantee Hossa doesn't command more than 7 million per year. I don't think he wants to play for Pittsburgh for one reason or another. So we have 7 million for Hossa, 5 million for Bouwmeester and 3 million for Belak, Kreps, Olesz. I am guessing they buy out Van Ryn. which gives them 3 million in wiggle room. Teams always find ways to make it work.
Eh, I can guarantee he will get more than 7 million a year. Pitt has the potential to be the best team in the league for the foreseeable future.

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06-22-2008, 03:31 PM
  #98
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Lets see. With Boynton we have 3 million less to spend. Without Boynton we have 3 million more to spend. Hmmmm.......
That has nothing to do with what we were looking at to spend before the Olli trade, which is virtually the same as it is now. You're completely dodging the original argument and it's making you look lame to anyone who is reading through this thread. Just give up this point now and save at least a little face.

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06-22-2008, 03:32 PM
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LOL, hoax, the guy who said Jokinen was a playmaker, ot losses dont count when calculating winning percentage, and Matthias will fill in for Jokinen. Hey pal!

I'm not talking about fighting or getting beaten up. I'm talking about faceoffs and fighting for the puck in the corners. this has nothing to do with fighting. He lines up against a guy like Holik or Jokinen they are going to run through him.

Link me please.

The main board thinks this is a bad trade for the Panthers!!!!
Matthias was fine on the days he was with us. Jokinen is a play-maker but he has a nasty slap shot. I still don't and its used by everyone else, so yet another thing people disagree with you on. Jokinen got a ****ing .43% face-off percentage, THAT SUCKS!
He's not NHL calibre because he sucks at face-offs is basically what you said...

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06-22-2008, 03:32 PM
  #100
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We still have the top money JM wanted to invest in a top defenseman...
Exactly.

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