HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Round 2, pick #51 - Rangers select C Derek Stepan (Shat.-St. Mary's, High-MN)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-24-2008, 03:07 PM
  #326
Nich
Registered User
 
Nich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wantagh
Country: Croatia
Posts: 6,895
vCash: 500
plus imo, al left school a year to early......

Nich is offline  
Old
06-24-2008, 11:40 PM
  #327
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Amish Paradise
Country: United States
Posts: 13,815
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Edge, this Stepan kid is not in the mold of a Dubinsky, Anisimov, or Tyutin - he's exactly like those other guys I listed - thin slick offensive guys who make noise in the college/minors and look like career AHL'ers at their highest peak.

You're right about taking a shot at top line potential, but again, we did that with Olver, seems like our scouts have a one track mind sometimes.
How can you say that though? Just because he's playing college hockey?

Dubinsky was a 5'11, 180 pound center who wasn't a great skater and lacked size when we drafted him.

Anisimov was 6'3, 180 pounds and had the knock against him for getting pushed around by smaller players.

It seems like the only argument we can find against the kid is based on what Olver did (or didn't) do. That's like saying Del Zotto is destined for better things because he is similar to Sanguinetti. I just don't think that's a fair way to look at these kids.

Stepan might make it. He might not. That's the nature of the pick, but it's not like they took someone ranked 200th with their second round pick. Just because he's not a hyped prospect doesn't mean he's destined to failure.

Edge is offline  
Old
06-25-2008, 09:45 AM
  #328
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 24,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
How can you say that though? Just because he's playing college hockey?

Dubinsky was a 5'11, 180 pound center who wasn't a great skater and lacked size when we drafted him.

Anisimov was 6'3, 180 pounds and had the knock against him for getting pushed around by smaller players.

It seems like the only argument we can find against the kid is based on what Olver did (or didn't) do. That's like saying Del Zotto is destined for better things because he is similar to Sanguinetti. I just don't think that's a fair way to look at these kids.

Stepan might make it. He might not. That's the nature of the pick, but it's not like they took someone ranked 200th with their second round pick. Just because he's not a hyped prospect doesn't mean he's destined to failure.
Dubinsky fought and was gritty, at that size it meant something, there wasnt much talk about his size cause he utilized what he did have. Stepan doesnt seem like the type, thats my point - he's alot closer to guys like Olver than he is Dubi or Anisimov(there wasnt a big stink about him being soft as far as i recall, and even if there were he's 6'3, theres room to grow there).

Again, I hope the kid proves me wrong.

Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
06-25-2008, 09:50 AM
  #329
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,693
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
there wasnt a big stink about him being soft as far as i recall, and even if there were he's 6'3, theres room to grow there)..
There was a lot of talk about how skinny Anisimov was/still is. He's never going to be a big body out there, in my opinion. some guys just can't fill out to 220 or something and still be in hockey shape

Levitate is offline  
Old
06-25-2008, 09:54 AM
  #330
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 24,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
There was a lot of talk about how skinny Anisimov was/still is. He's never going to be a big body out there, in my opinion. some guys just can't fill out to 220 or something and still be in hockey shape
I'm not saying he's gonna destroy guys with his size, he's got a large frame on him, nobody's just gonna knock him down. Can't say that about a guy like Stepan.

Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
06-25-2008, 10:30 AM
  #331
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,693
vCash: 500
If he rounds out at about 6' 190-200, that's about average for a NHLer, and he'll be fine in the size department

Levitate is offline  
Old
06-25-2008, 10:36 AM
  #332
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 24,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
If he rounds out at about 6' 190-200, that's about average for a NHLer, and he'll be fine in the size department
Thats my point, thats what we said about Olver and the like !

Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
06-25-2008, 10:39 AM
  #333
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,693
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Thats my point, thats what we said about Olver and the like !
And Edge's point was that you could have said the same about a guy like Dubinsky. It's a crap shoot. Until they come up with some kind of wild predicting technology that lets you figure out how much someone is going to grow, you just have no way of knowing what will happen (well, maybe aside from looking at their parents!).

In the end, better to draft based on skill than size, if you're looking for someone to be a scorer

Levitate is offline  
Old
06-25-2008, 10:45 AM
  #334
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 24,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
And Edge's point was that you could have said the same about a guy like Dubinsky. It's a crap shoot. Until they come up with some kind of wild predicting technology that lets you figure out how much someone is going to grow, you just have no way of knowing what will happen (well, maybe aside from looking at their parents!).

In the end, better to draft based on skill than size, if you're looking for someone to be a scorer
Ok i'll say it again - Dubinsky utilized what size he had, thats why you can't use him as an example - Olver, Inman, Falardeau, Roche, Ryan - these guys are all pretty much the same player. Stepan fits their mold more than he does a Dubi or Anisimov.

You're right, its great to draft skill, just seems like its always the same type of player, with pretty unspectaular results as far as turning out NHL'ers.

Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
06-25-2008, 09:38 PM
  #335
Unk
 
Unk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In A Better Place
Country: Liechtenstein
Posts: 698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Ok i'll say it again - Dubinsky utilized what size he had, thats why you can't use him as an example - Olver, Inman, Falardeau, Roche, Ryan - these guys are all pretty much the same player. Stepan fits their mold more than he does a Dubi or Anisimov.

You're right, its great to draft skill, just seems like its always the same type of player, with pretty unspectaular results as far as turning out NHL'ers.
Most draft picks end up being busts anyway, theres nothing inherent about skilled players that make them more likely to fail. I don't get any impression there is some fatal flaw with Stepan that makes him doomed to fail.

Unk is offline  
Old
06-25-2008, 10:09 PM
  #336
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Amish Paradise
Country: United States
Posts: 13,815
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Ok i'll say it again - Dubinsky utilized what size he had, thats why you can't use him as an example - Olver, Inman, Falardeau, Roche, Ryan - these guys are all pretty much the same player. Stepan fits their mold more than he does a Dubi or Anisimov.

You're right, its great to draft skill, just seems like its always the same type of player, with pretty unspectaular results as far as turning out NHL'ers.
Why because Olver didn't make it? If we're going to go with that approach we need to look at every defenseman the Rangers drafted in the last 10 years who is 6'3 and above.

Kloucek, Jarvis, Henry, etc. I just don't think we're really fishing to try and make this point work.

And how in the world is Stepan anything like Falardeau? There's about 3 inches and and entire playing style seperating them.

So Dubinsky utilized his size. Did Anisimov? Did Amonte when he was 6'0, 165 pounds on draft day? The point is we don't know, but we're not even juding Stepan on his own merits, the best argument we can come up against him is the play of others.

Should we never draft a big forward in the top 90 because of the failures of Jessiman, Jonasen and Falardeau?

Based on previous experience, Lundqvist would've been a waste of time based on the drafting of guys like Asplund and Holmqvist.

Fact of the matter is no matter who you draft, the best teams are still going to fail about 66% of the time. There is no exact science to this, there's no rulebook that says "Guys who are 6'0 and lighter will never make it." While they haven't yet for the Rangers, you could point to plenty of guys around the NHL who have.

If Stepan doesn't make it, it will be because he didn't cut the mustard. Not because Olver and Roche didn't make it.

Edge is offline  
Old
06-26-2008, 08:42 AM
  #337
Forechecker
Registered User
 
Forechecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,322
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Forechecker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
If Stepan doesn't make it, it will be because he didn't cut the mustard. Not because Olver and Roche didn't make it.
And that's really the crux of it. If anything the success of Lundy vs Montoya or Dubinsky vs Brendl is that talent is everywhere in the draft, and it's really up to the player and their advisers how they turn out.

Yes, we might try to do some forecasting on past history, but that tends to get tricky with those meddling kids and whether or not they have the testicular fortitude to make a go of it.

Forechecker is offline  
Old
06-26-2008, 08:52 AM
  #338
bigblue21
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 289
vCash: 500
The more I think about Stepan the more I like the pick. Maybe he wasn't highly touted in the national rankings, but starring for Shattuck's and leading all Minnesota HS players in scoring sure isn't bad in my book.

And the comparisons to Olver and Ryan are off the mark in my opinion. Maybe they have similar body types, but that's it. Last time I checked those two went to Northern Michigan and Maine, two currently middling programs (although Maine is on their way back). Stepan is going to one of the top 5 NCAA programs in my opinion.

Let's just give the kid a chance.


Last edited by bigblue21: 06-26-2008 at 09:55 AM.
bigblue21 is offline  
Old
06-26-2008, 09:16 AM
  #339
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,693
vCash: 500
Billy Ryan actually went to Maine, which has a decent program I think.

Levitate is offline  
Old
06-26-2008, 09:40 AM
  #340
Forechecker
Registered User
 
Forechecker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 4,322
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Forechecker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Billy Ryan actually went to Maine, which has a decent program I think.
The Maine program got gutted after they were found to be in NCAA rules violations the year after Kariya won the Championship with them. It's never been the same since, although they seem to be clawing their way back.

Forechecker is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.