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OT: Wellwood and Raycroft Waived, Tucker bought out.... Wellwood claimed by Canucks.

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Old
06-25-2008, 03:42 PM
  #276
Joey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
What I'm trying to say is that I think they are trying to maximize their chances of hitting the lottery, while developing their young prospects while doing just enough to give hope to their fans that they aren't that bad and that their future is much brighter. That is totally a different strategy then to lose every single bloody game. If that was the case, Kaberle wouldn't be on the team, neither would pogge (well, in the minors), Steen, Tlusty etc etc.
So it's "totally different" to aim for 30th place than to "maximize your chances" of finishing in 26th/27th/28th/29th place?

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06-25-2008, 03:49 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Joey View Post
Some people here are a bit retarded
Is that an introduction Joey? Well, nice to meet you, don't feed the trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
"They waived Wellwood and traded a 3rd rounder for a good character player --- CAN'T YOU SEE THEY ARE TRYING TO LOSE 82 GAMES NEXT YEAR?" seriously... and you'll only believe they aren't trying to tank if a superstar decides HE wants to go there...hahaha...okay I'm sorry for making fun of you but come on
Their 2 best players, and what was their best youngster, now history (unless you still think Mats is coming back?) So they're not blowing things up and facing the possibility of a lottery finish?

The *right* thing is to do *exactly* what they're doing, re-shape the club and take the hit until good drafting can right the ship. It worked great in MTL. It will work even in TOR, if they can shake the schizophenic idea of "spending to the cap" just to compete when they're at Day 1 of "Rebuild: The Series".

The ship still has too many captains in T.O. but at least Fletcher is trying to make the right moves. If that = lottery, then progress ought to be better than if they squeak into the playoffs for a couple years on the backs of high-paid FA's.

P.S. Don't even bother with the "trying to lose 82 games" line, of course they won't.

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06-25-2008, 03:56 PM
  #278
pepperMonkey
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Originally Posted by Joey View Post
So it's "totally different" to aim for 30th place than to "maximize your chances" of finishing in 26th/27th/28th/29th place?
Sigh.
MLSE still needs to make money.
The easiest way to lose every game, is to get rid of all their good players including their up and comers and replace them with garbage...what would that cause? They will lose fans interests whether they be fans that goes to the games or watch it on TV and this will by extension lose corporate money (companies will not buy tickets) besides the fact that Bettman will not allow this to happen. And it will also instill a losing mentality to all the young players that are expected to be the group that leads the team to the hopeful cup.
On the other hand, playing the young players, giving them experience, trying to get them to win while surrounding them with vets who aren't impact players but all decent players with good attitudes (and also sprinkled with the likes of Kaberle etc.) will hopefully instill some hope for the future, keep the fans relatively content, grow the young team into a cohesive whole and (hopefully) instill some good attitudes. All this while they still lose a crap load of games and hopefully enough to win the lottery. Frankly an incredibly hard strategy to pull off but 'that' is what I'm talking about.

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06-25-2008, 04:16 PM
  #279
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Leafs top line as for right now : Blake/Stajan/Antropov



We're not tanking

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06-25-2008, 04:33 PM
  #280
pepperMonkey
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Leafs top line as for right now : Blake/Stajan/Antropov



We're not tanking
Ouch. Never thought about that....Not even a 2nd C available...or a decent 4th...(though I suppose they could put Nik into 1st C position...), talk about dismal. Guess that's what Fletcher means by spending up to the cap...watch him get some decent but high cost vets to man the ship while it sinks to the bottom of the sea...

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06-25-2008, 04:44 PM
  #281
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Someone in the Leafs organisation oughta
tell Ole Fletch why his calls arent going thru...

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06-25-2008, 05:02 PM
  #282
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Its funny to watch people trash the Leafs, considering we were in a state of disaster, no that many years ago.

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06-25-2008, 05:07 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Its funny to watch people trash the Leafs, considering we were in a state of disaster, no that many years ago.
Did it last 40 years? I don't think so

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06-25-2008, 05:10 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Its funny to watch people trash the Leafs, considering we were in a state of disaster, no that many years ago.
Maybe it`s a little bit of payback?

Don`t know how much time you spent around the forums several years back...but we took heaps of abuse and lots of arrogant behavior from a lot of Leaf fans. Funny though...some of us told them their style of team-building would come back and bite them in the rear.

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06-25-2008, 05:16 PM
  #285
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Well, I would think that for those that absolutely hate the Leafs, what the Leafs are doing now would be the LAST thing they would like the Leafs to be doing...
They unlike us have a good chance to be in the basement for a long while picking up 1st picks in many a draft and gobbling up true future stars which if they do it right could make them into a much larger contenders than we can...
And unlike a lot of fan bases, their fan bases are willing to wait it out while still supporting the team since what do they have to lose?
Their management has been garbage for a very long time but it seems they have righted the ship (sorta) and may be moving in the general right direction...frankly the term 'scary' might come into play...this team could be a very scary team to play against in the future...

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06-25-2008, 05:17 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Some of their moves show thoughts of rebuilding with youth... ie trade up and get a blue chipper in Schenn.... get rid of tucker... etc...

Then some of them scream win now.... draft picks for Mayers; spending to the cap; etc...

And some make no sense at all.... letting wellwood go for nothing....


Its a puzzling way of trying to run a franchise... no idea if they are coming or going in that city.
We needed Mayers since Tucker became dispensable. We do need some veteran leadership going forward, particularly if Sundin leaves as well. So it makes perfect sense.

The Leafs have underachieved the past three years. The core needs to be dismantled and the culture of the team has to change. Unfortunately, Fletcher's hands were tied when dealing with the 5 NTC guys, they refuse to be traded. Out of that group, I think the only one we want to retain is Kaberle, and one of Kubina or McCabe. I can't forsee McCabe leaving, but there is a small window this summer to trade Kubina. I fully expect us to make a trade there and get some good assets in return.

As for the Wellwood situation, he's being made an example of. He's exactly what's wrong with the team's current (losing) mentality. Lazy, soft, unmotivated players are no longer welcome. Wellwood himself mentioned Fletcher was trying to work out a trade but there were no takers. We're cutting a lot of dead weight on this team: Belak, Kilger, Raycroft, Wellwood, Tucker, and likely another couple of guys.

pepperMonkey has the best handle on the Leafs situation from what I can see in this thread.

Although I'm not fan of the Habs, for the sake of the rivalry I like to know both teams are competitive. I've always dreamed of a playoff matchup.

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06-25-2008, 05:20 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Ice Poutine View Post


Someone in the Leafs organisation oughta
tell Ole Fletch why his calls arent going thru...
WHAT THE HELL IS AD DOING WITH FLETCHER?

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06-25-2008, 05:23 PM
  #288
pepperMonkey
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Originally Posted by LilWinger11 View Post
WHAT THE HELL IS AD DOING WITH FLETCHER?
Ahaha! I don't think I want to know lol

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Old
06-25-2008, 05:24 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
Ouch. Never thought about that....Not even a 2nd C available...or a decent 4th...(though I suppose they could put Nik into 1st C position...), talk about dismal. Guess that's what Fletcher means by spending up to the cap...watch him get some decent but high cost vets to man the ship while it sinks to the bottom of the sea...
I'm pretty sure you're right about us 'sinking' next year

But the Leafs actually have quite a few centers:
Antropov
Steen
Stajan
Tlusty
Devereaux
Moore (if they re-sign him)
And Bell has played center too - we just use most of them on the wing because someone thought it would be a good idea to create a team that only has 2 real wingers.

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Old
06-25-2008, 05:25 PM
  #290
LesCanadiens
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
Well, I would think that for those that absolutely hate the Leafs, what the Leafs are doing now would be the LAST thing they would like the Leafs to be doing...
They unlike us have a good chance to be in the basement for a long while picking up 1st picks in many a draft and gobbling up true future stars which if they do it right could make them into a much larger contenders than we can...
And unlike a lot of fan bases, their fan bases are willing to wait it out while still supporting the team since what do they have to lose?
Their management has been garbage for a very long time but it seems they have righted the ship (sorta) and may be moving in the general right direction...frankly the term 'scary' might come into play...this team could be a very scary team to play against in the future...
They`ll figure out a way to mess it up. It all starts from the top and trickles on down.....they have like what? 20 Reggie Houle`s???

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06-25-2008, 05:27 PM
  #291
pepperMonkey
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
They`ll figure out a way to mess it up. It all starts from the top and trickles on down.....they have like what? 20 Reggie Houle`s???
They might. Definitely a possibility but I don't recall a time when they actually really TRIED to right the ship by cleaning house (management all the way down to the players)...course I could be wrong...any old timers know?

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06-25-2008, 05:28 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
Their management has been garbage for a very long time but it seems they have righted the ship (sorta) and may be moving in the general right direction...frankly the term 'scary' might come into play...this team could be a very scary team to play against in the future...
First, nice to see someone who's objective - it's not often I hear a nice thing said about the Leafs from a Habs fan (though it definitely does go both ways, a lot of Leafs fans are complete morons, I'll admit)

I like how you said scary though....and I think you may be right. We already got Schenn, he's going to be knocking heads in a couple years, and if we actually get worse next year and have a chance at Hedman, you guys are not going to like playing us AT ALL!

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06-25-2008, 05:31 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93xxGilmourxx93 View Post
First, nice to see someone who's objective - it's not often I hear a nice thing said about the Leafs from a Habs fan (though it definitely does go both ways, a lot of Leafs fans are complete morons, I'll admit)

I like how you said scary though....and I think you may be right. We already got Schenn, he's going to be knocking heads in a couple years, and if we actually get worse next year and have a chance at Hedman, you guys are not going to like playing us AT ALL!
Yeah, but on the other end, you're going to be facing something like
Markov-Komisarek
McDonagh-Emelin
Fischer-Valentenko (I suck with sides, who's LD and RD)

While we don't have anyone near a Hedman calibre there.. that's so ridiculous depth and talent straight down.

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06-25-2008, 05:31 PM
  #294
pepperMonkey
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Originally Posted by 93xxGilmourxx93 View Post
I'm pretty sure you're right about us 'sinking' next year

But the Leafs actually have quite a few centers:
Antropov
Steen
Stajan
Tlusty
Devereaux
Moore (if they re-sign him)
And Bell has played center too - we just use most of them on the wing because someone thought it would be a good idea to create a team that only has 2 real wingers.
Of course, never said they don't but none of them can be considered 1st C's or even 2nd C's (well, I'll give you Antropov...). Some may turn out to be just that but as or right now...

Frankly I think on average, most teams will have an over abundance of players that have played C in the past but were brought into their respected NHL teams to play wing...but that's only my opinion which is backed up by absolutely no proof

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccliquer View Post
We needed Mayers since Tucker became dispensable. We do need some veteran leadership going forward, particularly if Sundin leaves as well. So it makes perfect sense.

The Leafs have underachieved the past three years. The core needs to be dismantled and the culture of the team has to change. Unfortunately, Fletcher's hands were tied when dealing with the 5 NTC guys, they refuse to be traded. Out of that group, I think the only one we want to retain is Kaberle, and one of Kubina or McCabe. I can't forsee McCabe leaving, but there is a small window this summer to trade Kubina. I fully expect us to make a trade there and get some good assets in return.

As for the Wellwood situation, he's being made an example of. He's exactly what's wrong with the team's current (losing) mentality. Lazy, soft, unmotivated players are no longer welcome. Wellwood himself mentioned Fletcher was trying to work out a trade but there were no takers. We're cutting a lot of dead weight on this team: Belak, Kilger, Raycroft, Wellwood, Tucker, and likely another couple of guys.

pepperMonkey has the best handle on the Leafs situation from what I can see in this thread.

Although I'm not fan of the Habs, for the sake of the rivalry I like to know both teams are competitive. I've always dreamed of a playoff matchup.
I can't see them trying to get rid of Kaberle...elite youngish D playing with a hometown discount...I think they will keep him, the others...anything goes I guess.

Hmm...afraid of the Leafs becoming a real team again but on the other hand having the rivalry against the Leafs again would be a pleasure that hasn't existed in eons...Leafs vs Habs in the playoffs would be amazing


Last edited by Beakermania*: 06-25-2008 at 05:49 PM.
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06-25-2008, 05:38 PM
  #295
LesCanadiens
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Originally Posted by pepperMonkey View Post
They might. Definitely a possibility but I don't recall a time when they actually really TRIED to right the ship by cleaning house (management all the way down to the players)...course I could be wrong...any old timers know?
I think they have....but a long time ago...they`ve had some rebuilding years in the past.....Iafrate era if I recall.

Funny...I actually liked the Leafs before internet...it`s only after interacting with Leaf fans online did I grow a solid distaste for that sweater.

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06-25-2008, 05:49 PM
  #296
Ice Poutine
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Originally Posted by ccliquer View Post
...
The Leafs have underachieved the past three years....
So, by your account, we're in 1971 now, right?

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06-25-2008, 06:05 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by Moester View Post
Ahhhhhhh such cunning wit. I actually don't own one of those shirts, it was an example. But I've known quite a few guys who wear shirts like that get more "ladies" in a month than I have in my whole life. Its not about the shirt you wear, but whats inside the shirt that counts. You take a charming, good-natured & confident guy and put him into any shirt and women will react to him. Put an overbearing, guy who lacks confidence that has no social graces into the best clothes money can buy and all he will attract are the type of women who would sleep with a pile of crap if it was rich. I guess its all a matter of perspective.
How did a 'Wellwood & Raycroft waived, Tucker bought out' thread turn into this?

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06-25-2008, 06:11 PM
  #298
Kessick
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Originally Posted by Ice Poutine View Post
So, by your account, we're in 1971 now, right?
I try to keep myself in perpetual denial.

Seriously though, we were expected to at least be a marginal playoff team (two consecutive 9th place finishes), but even that didn't materialize. Anyway, I'm really excited about the changes that have been going on, they were long overdue. And I'm optimistic that in a few years the games between our two teams will be excellent.

Good luck in the off-season, just don't sign Mats... please.

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06-25-2008, 07:33 PM
  #299
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What I want to know is what the heck are they going to spend to the cap on?
A bunch of these so they can practice riding the bumpy road back down to the cellar:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Its funny to watch people trash the Leafs.
Could have stopped here... I did, and chuckled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Yeah, but on the other end, you're going to be facing something like
Markov-Komisarek
McDonagh-Emelin
Fischer-Valentenko (I suck with sides, who's LD and RD)

While we don't have anyone near a Hedman calibre there.. that's so ridiculous depth and talent straight down.
Colour me retarded, but don't we have Hammer for a bunch more years too? Or do you see him eventually traded for different pieces because guys like McD, Em, Fisch, and Val will all be improvements over him?


Last edited by Beakermania*: 06-25-2008 at 07:40 PM.
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06-25-2008, 07:38 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Colour me retarded, but don't we have Hammer for a bunch more years too? Or do you see him eventually traded for different pieces because guys like McD, Em, Fisch, and Val will all be improvements over him?
We do. I don't know if there would be much of a market for him later on in that deal. But we will have a logjam at defence.. because, O'Byrne isn't there, Weber, Carle and Subban should all make cases for the offensive D-man portion. Then we have a wildcard like Torp.

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