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Bouwmeester wants out of Florida

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Old
06-25-2008, 09:56 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomez to Jagr View Post
To FLA:

Sangs, Tyutin, Prucha, 2nd in 09

To NYR:

Bouwmeester

Very fair on both sides, considering JBo wants out of Florida
I can't do that, too much. If we got some forward back I'd be better. Maybe Olesz, Booth, Matthias (don't know much about this guy, would they part with him??? Probably not Frolik. I don't really know.

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06-25-2008, 10:09 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by theMessiah1194 View Post
I can't do that, too much. If we got some forward back I'd be better. Maybe Olesz, Booth, Matthias (don't know much about this guy, would they part with him??? Probably not Frolik. I don't really know.
Absolutely, I was just speaking in terms of value. Florida would need to throw in a prospect in order for the deal to work. Repik maybe? If not, the pick can be taken out.

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06-25-2008, 10:11 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Dubinsky is 22.
Wolf, I think he was talking to DubiDubiDoo about Sanguinetti, not referring to Dubinsky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post

Sanguinetti played 6 games in the AHL last year as a 19 year old. After being one of the best defensemen in Canadian Juniors.

Sanguinetti has a higher ceiling then Bouwmeester. And double that by adding Del Zotto, who was right behind Sanguinetti.

We are not talking about bum defensemen here. We are talking about 2 of the top 5 scoring defensemen in all of Canadian Juniors.


Dawes? Sure. But i'm not throwing in Cherepanov, Sanguinetti, first round picks, Dubinsky, and more for Bouwmeester.

In a great year for him he logged 40 points. Rozsival, who is not nearly worth the money he is going to command on the open market, basically had that after having a bad second half... and had that the year before.

This is not a superstar we are talking about here.

I'm not willing to throw away years of fruition with Dubinsky, Staal, Tyutin, Girardi, Cherepanov, Sangunetti, Anisimov, Del Zotto, Korpikoski, Grachev, and more... I'm not willing to disassemble what took years to grow for one guy, who is not even a top 20 guy in the league.

No way.

I would absolutely take my chances with all of my home grown players then to dismantle my franchise's future for one guy, again, who is not even a superstar player.

Just remember that Sanguinetti and Del Zotto out produced Bogosian, Schenn, Doughty, and the rest of the lot that went in the first round. And they are considered future stars.
I've got to say Pukku, I think you're way off base with your analysis of Bouwmeester. He is absolutely one of the best blueliners in the NHL. You can keep bringing up his point totals, but you need to acknowledge he was on a lousy team and while numbers tell part of the story, they aren't the only thing Jaybo brings to the table.

Not only is he an offensive threat, but he is also very, very solid in his own end. Two-way d-men are extremely hard to come by in this league. And while Jaybo might not be on the same level as a Pronger or Niedermayer, he isn't that far off, and he's only 24. In fact, Bouwmeesters offensive numbers are quite similar to that of Prongers when he was that age. Thats not to say he'll be as good as Pronger, but he's still a hell of a player.

Where I will agree with you is our defensive prospects. I'd certainly like to keep Sangs and DZ in our organization if at all possible.

Staal - Sanguinetti
Bouwmeester - Del Zotto
Girardi - Potter / Gaulton / Kundratek / Sauer

That's incredible defensive strength. While I'm sure the chances of keeping that top-4 together for any period of time after Sangs/DZ need raises is slim, if we got 2 season's out of it we'd be a serious contender.

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06-25-2008, 10:14 PM
  #79
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I'd risk waiting until Tuesday and sign him to an offer sheet. I'd try to force Floridas hand a bit...

If you can just give up picks VS kids in the system I'd give up the picks...I'm not sure Bouwmeester is the guy I'd sign though...

I really think in trade terms the Rangers aren't a match with Florida. I wouldn't go overboard trading to many players for one guy when we have a skelton crew under contract right now...

Do the Rangers have the ammo to trade for Bouwmeester without it hurting one or two other areas?

I don't know...

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06-25-2008, 10:15 PM
  #80
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I wouldn't bother trying for Bouwmeester. Face it, we lack the assets to make such a trade.

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06-25-2008, 10:17 PM
  #81
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[QUOTE=PukkuMikku;14572661]

I think you have a few swings and misses in here:


Quote:
Sanguinetti has a higher ceiling then Bouwmeester. And double that by adding Del Zotto, who was right behind Sanguinetti.
You want to run this one by me again?


Quote:
In a great year for him he logged 40 points. Rozsival, who is not nearly worth the money he is going to command on the open market, basically had that after having a bad second half... and had that the year before.

This is not a superstar we are talking about here.
40 points as a very young defenseman on a poor team and that's not at his peak yet.

I think you are SEVERELY undervalueing Bo if you don't think he has star defenseman potential.

To even put him in the category as Rozy is...well...really pushing the boundaries.

Quote:
Just remember that Sanguinetti and Del Zotto out produced Bogosian, Schenn, Doughty, and the rest of the lot that went in the first round. And they are considered future stars.
Be very careful how you view that. Sanguinetti is two years older than those kids and they are likely to beat him to the NHL right off the bat. While I like Sanguinetti, he's just not quite on that level.

As for Del Zotto, he has offensive talent, but he too has many things seperating him from those guys. That's why they were locks to get picked where they did and stand a great shot at making the NHL right away while Del Zotto was a later pick who is going to have some work to do to give himself a shot at the NHL.

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06-25-2008, 10:37 PM
  #82
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This thread is more of the same notion that the players that the Rangers have will all be great and that players on other teams are grossly overrated. I guess there are fans of all teams that have similar unrealistic views of personnel.

Bouwmeester is already what we hope Staal becomes yet there is this notion based on absolutely nothing that Sanguinetti has a higher ceiling than Bo. Aside from Phaneuf I'm not sure which young NHL defenseman I'd prefer to Bouwmeester and Bouwmeester might end up with a longer shelf life than Phaneuf because of the way Phaneuf plays the game. There might be a couple dmen better than Bouwmeester but not more than that.

Sanguinetti might end up better but I sincerely doubt it. There are people here that wouldn't trade Sanguinetti even up for Bouwmeester. That is simply amazing to me. Even if they turn out to be right they are wrong.

There are certain fans who prefer assumed promise to proven success. Bouwmeester, in combination with Staal, would help solidify this team for a long time.

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Old
06-25-2008, 11:06 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
This thread is more of the same notion that the players that the Rangers have will all be great and that players on other teams are grossly overrated. I guess there are fans of all teams that have similar unrealistic views of personnel.

Bouwmeester is already what we hope Staal becomes yet there is this notion based on absolutely nothing that Sanguinetti has a higher ceiling than Bo. Aside from Phaneuf I'm not sure which young NHL defenseman I'd prefer to Bouwmeester and Bouwmeester might end up with a longer shelf life than Phaneuf because of the way Phaneuf plays the game. There might be a couple dmen better than Bouwmeester but not more than that.

Sanguinetti might end up better but I sincerely doubt it. There are people here that wouldn't trade Sanguinetti even up for Bouwmeester. That is simply amazing to me. Even if they turn out to be right they are wrong.

There are certain fans who prefer assumed promise to proven success. Bouwmeester, in combination with Staal, would help solidify this team for a long time.
At the very least, Bo is a 40-45 point defenseman who should produce at that level for another 10 years. But his upside is very high, and at 24 he's just now entering his prime years.

This is a kid who has legit 20 goal, 60 point potential and is EXACTLY the type of player who would be perfect with Staal.

Now I agree that we can't give up the farm for him, but we can't go to the other extreme and try to diminish his value either.

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06-25-2008, 11:07 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Cherepanisimov View Post
doubt they would make the same mistake twice.
apparently they are rebuilding, so why would they want to trade their franchise player, who is only about 25?
Haha, they already did with the Luongo trade.

And lmao at these ridiculous proposals. We all saw what they got for Jokinen. New rules for proposals: If you're including a pick, drop it down one round. If you're including a prospect, make it a slightly worse prospect.

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06-25-2008, 11:10 PM
  #85
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To FLA: Anisimov, Sanguinetti, Tyutin, Prucha/Pick

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Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man
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06-25-2008, 11:20 PM
  #86
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I'm not advocating giving the farm for J-Bo, but I will say at least in my own opinion, as an overall defenseman, Bouwmeester is already what I hope Sanguinetti can become. I think J-Bo will continue to improve, and I'm not close to positive that Sangs will fulfill his potential. Plus with the addition of Del Zotto, I wouldn't think twice about including Sangs in a deal for J-Bo.

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06-25-2008, 11:21 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
To FLA: Anisimov, Sanguinetti, Tyutin, Prucha/Pick
That last element probably has to be a first/second, but I'd still do it.

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06-25-2008, 11:25 PM
  #88
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Dubinsky + Sanguinetti + #2 next year. That could get it done, won't deplete our system and we let Anisimov take Dubinsky's place. Value for Value.

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06-25-2008, 11:33 PM
  #89
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I'm not saying Dubinsky is worth more than JB, because he isn't, but I just don't think we can afford to trade him even for JB. He's going to be the young centerpiece on offense that brings all the forward youth together. I fear that if we trade him away, we'll just have disjointed prospects like Cherepanov, Anisimov, Korpikoski, Grachev without that glue and substance Dubi can and will provide.

If guys like Sanguinetti, Tyutin, Girardi, and Anisimov along with picks can't get it done its not worth it IMO.

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06-25-2008, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Dubinsky + Sanguinetti + #2 next year. That could get it done, won't deplete our system and we let Anisimov take Dubinsky's place. Value for Value.
I hope to God that Anisimov can offer the same kind of rookie season and post-freshman outlook that Dubi has. But are you really comfortable with trading that all away and pinning your hopes on a guy that has not yet touched NHL ice and by all accounts needs atleast 10 more pounds on him?

I usually give the benefit of the doubt to a prospect, but I am not trading Dubi on the assumption that Anisimov is going to effortlessly slide in his place.

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06-25-2008, 11:39 PM
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florida needs to go away....

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06-25-2008, 11:40 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Dubinsky + Sanguinetti + #2 next year. That could get it done, won't deplete our system and we let Anisimov take Dubinsky's place. Value for Value.
you must be crazy...he's nowhere near worth all that

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06-26-2008, 12:46 AM
  #93
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Didnt read the whole thead but...


Isnt he a RFA? Sign him to a offer sheet..5.1 million, 5 years...then again 6 others teams would offer that to him im sure

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06-26-2008, 12:50 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Manhattan Blue View Post
I hope to God that Anisimov can offer the same kind of rookie season and post-freshman outlook that Dubi has. But are you really comfortable with trading that all away and pinning your hopes on a guy that has not yet touched NHL ice and by all accounts needs at least 10 more pounds on him?

I usually give the benefit of the doubt to a prospect, but I am not trading Dubi on the assumption that Anisimov is going to effortlessly slide in his place.
First off, I'd be pinning my hopes on the guy I'm getting back in the trade. As for Artie, short term no I am not pinning my hopes on him but long term yes I am. Maybe this year, if not then next year for sure.

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Originally Posted by hightide85 View Post
you must be crazy...he's nowhere near worth all that
We'll have to agree to disagree. Frankly I think JBo could well be worth much more than Dubinsky + Sanguinetti and a 2nd. He's a number one defenseman with a decade of devastating service in front of him. With Staal, he would give us a shutdown pair for years to come.

And I'm somewhat with the poster who wonders what will happen when Dubiunsky is not centering Straka and Jagr. Look, I love the guy but he may have been scoring above his water line this year. There are precious few players in the league I would consider trading him for. This happens to be one of them.


Last edited by bobbop: 06-26-2008 at 12:57 AM.
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06-26-2008, 02:12 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
To FLA: Anisimov, Sanguinetti, Tyutin, Prucha/Pick
I think this offer would get it done.

Though I'm a bit apprehensive about losing Tyutin. A top four of J'bo, Staal, Tyutin, Girardi would be ideal.

Sanguinetti, Anisimov, Dawes, 2nd.

That's two legit prospects with high potential, a young forward who has proven, at least in spurts, that he can produce at the NHL level, and a 2nd rounder in a deep draft.

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06-26-2008, 07:37 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by nyr5186 View Post
I think this offer would get it done.

Though I'm a bit apprehensive about losing Tyutin. A top four of J'bo, Staal, Tyutin, Girardi would be ideal.

Sanguinetti, Anisimov, Dawes, 2nd.

That's two legit prospects with high potential, a young forward who has proven, at least in spurts, that he can produce at the NHL level, and a 2nd rounder in a deep draft.
there is no way that we Trade a dman on the roster and Sanguinetti... we don't have enough depth to replace it and than have to sign JBo to a high contract and than sign more FA's to fill up the depth.

It's either Sangs as part of a deal or Tyutin or Girardi... not two of the three. it would leave us w/ no reserve in the AHL if there are injuries next season.

Just look.

Staal-Bou
Tyutin/Girardi - ?????
Backman- ?????

Depth: potter, pock

and boumeester is going to be expensive, and than we still need to spend on at least 1 more dman. I say there is almost no way that Sangs would be involved in this trade. Most likely they will trade Girardi b/c he is young, and cap friendly. Plus in two years he is an RFA not a UFA as Tyutin would be in 4 years.

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06-26-2008, 07:39 AM
  #97
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Sanguinetti's OHL numbers.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php3?pid=80230

Del Zotto's OHL numbers.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php3?pid=96525

Bouwmeester's OHL numbers.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php3?pid=46419


The point made about Sanguinetti not putting up AHL numbers yet, despite only playing 6 games at the end of the year for Hartford, well Bouwmeester had even LESS impressive numbers in the AHL.

Sanguinetti our produced him every year in Juniors at comparable ages. And Del Zotto not far behind.


I stand by my statement that Sanguinetti AND Del Zotto have higher ceilings then that of Bouwmeester.


The REAL blunder would be dealing our youth.


The best trades are often the ones you DON'T make.


And don't give me the "proven NHL talent vs. potential" nonsense. That is the same mentality, regardless of Bouwmeester's age, that put the Rangers in a dark age of no farm system and no playoffs.

You absolutely DO NOT sell your future for one guy.

I'll take all of our top youth together as a unit and a team over any ONE guy, every day of the week, 100% of the time.


Just adding... find me any defenseman, other then Lidstrom, in North America who puts up the numbers Sanguinetti did. I don't care what level it is, 29 goals and 70 points and over a PPG as a defenseman is sick. And Del Zotto is just as impressive. If you trade THAT you're nuts. We have potentially the two highest scoring defensemen for the next decade.


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06-26-2008, 07:45 AM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Sanguinetti's OHL numbers.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php3?pid=80230

Del Zotto's OHL numbers.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php3?pid=96525

Bouwmeester's OHL numbers.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php3?pid=46419


The point made about Sanguinetti not putting up AHL numbers yet, despite only playing 6 games at the end of the year for Hartford, well Bouwmeester had even LESS impressive numbers in the AHL.

Sanguinetti our produced him every year in Juniors at comparable ages. And Del Zotto not far behind.


I stand by my statement that Sanguinetti AND Del Zotto have higher ceilings then that of Bouwmeester.


The REAL blunder would be dealing our youth.


The best trades are often the ones you DON'T make.


And don't give me the "proven NHL talent vs. potential" nonsense. That is the same mentality, regardless of Bouwmeester's age, that put the Rangers in a dark age of no farm system and no playoffs.

You absolutely DO NOT sell your future for one guy.

I'll take all of our top youth together as a unit and a team over any ONE guy, every day of the week, 100% of the time.
but I don't recall there being any questions about Bouwmeesters defensive ability as there are w/ Sangs' and del Zotto's. Sangs' and del Zotto's offensive ceiling may be higher but no way their Defensive ceiling is higher.

also it's not really selling you're future if you trade a 20 yr old for a 25 yr old stud. now if Bouwmeester was 30 it would be selling your future. But the fact that JBo is still very young, is a proven player, and still has his best years in front of him, this would not constitute as selling your future.

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06-26-2008, 07:56 AM
  #99
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but I don't recall there being any questions about Bouwmeesters defensive ability as there are w/ Sangs' and del Zotto's. Sangs' and del Zotto's offensive ceiling may be higher but no way their Defensive ceiling is higher.

also it's not really selling you're future if you trade a 20 yr old for a 25 yr old stud. now if Bouwmeester was 30 it would be selling your future. But the fact that JBo is still very young, is a proven player, and still has his best years in front of him, this would not constitute as selling your future.
It IS selling your future by giving up Sanguinetti, Anisimov, 2009 1st round pick, Dawes, and what ever else is being proposed. THAT is selling your future.

Sorry, this overvaluing other team's youth and undermining our own is ridiculous.

Sanguinetti and Del Zotto are TEENAGERS. Their defensive play will improve.

You can NOT teach what they can do with the puck.


Sorry, no chance, i don't care who it is, i do not disassemble what we have for one guy. Don't care WHO it is. The whole is greater then the individuals. And all of our highly talented youth combined equals one hell of a dynamic team for many many years. I'm not selling THAT for Bouwmeester, no chance.

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06-26-2008, 08:01 AM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
It IS selling your future by giving up Sanguinetti, Anisimov, 2009 1st round pick, Dawes, and what ever else is being proposed. THAT is selling your future.

Sorry, this overvaluing other team's youth and undermining our own is ridiculous.

Sanguinetti and Del Zotto are TEENAGERS. Their defensive play will improve.

You can NOT teach what they can do with the puck.


Sorry, no chance, i don't care who it is, i do not disassemble what we have for one guy. Don't care WHO it is. The whole is greater then the individuals. And all of our highly talented youth combined equals one hell of a dynamic team for many many years. I'm not selling THAT for Bouwmeester, no chance.

well for that much yeah i would agree w/ you. but i don't think it will cost that much at all.

say it was Girardi, Anisimov, Dawes straight up... all those players are completely replaceable. we do have a very very deep farm system, and not all the players will make it... it just is impossible to get them all in ranger blue... therefore some have to be traded or you lose them for nothing. Plus remember each draft we will get more prospects.

If we didn't have much depth in the way of prospects than I would be totally against a trade, but fact is we have alot of depth, w/ alot of young kids already playing on this team. we dont have room for every prospect. If you can snag a great player like JBo for 2-3 prospects i don't think our farm system would even notice.

trick is to only make these deals once every 3-5 years, not many times in one year. otherwise you are right and our prospect poool will dry up rather fast. but we have worked hard to get our pool very deep to have the luxury to make these deals w/o destroying the youth movement b/c we are so deep.

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