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What are they worth to you?

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Old
06-26-2008, 12:30 PM
  #26
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I can tell right away mine won't be popular

Avery - 2 mil/year - 2 years or gone
Jagr - 5 mil/year - 2 years or gone
Mara - 2 mil/year - 2 years or gone
Rozsival - gone
Malik - gone
Strudwick - done
Straka - done
Sjostrom - 0.775 or gone
Dawes - 0.775
Shanahan - done
Valiquette - 0.618 or gone

*gone= not worth what they will get/want

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Old
06-26-2008, 12:34 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyGSpot View Post
Zilch Zero NAda, No Deniro mamacita.

They are all worth nothing.

Don't sign any of them back. Give it to the young kids.

Our team is ranked 8th prospect wise, give them a chance to play dammit.
Um, you can't throw a bunch of rookies and 2nd year players together to make up 80% of your offense and expect to get any type of good numbers. These aren't Crosby or Ovechkins.


Last year was perfect, a good mix of vets, and 1st and 2nd year players.

Dubinsky, Dawes, Staal, Callahan all got very good ice time for first and 2nd year players. We should bring into the mix 1 or 2 more this season...not another 4, way too much inexperience.

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06-26-2008, 01:03 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post

Straka - done
10 points in 10 playoff games puts Straka in the "DONE" category in your opinion? I can understand the mindset of (Straka is holding back a young player with his roster spot or we need to get bigger on the wings) I may not agree with that train of thought but I can understand it. However, to lump Straka into the same group as Shanny and Strudwick is absurd to me. According to this logic every single player on the team outside of Jagr and Gomez are "done" because Straka outscored all of them in the playoffs.

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06-26-2008, 01:19 PM
  #29
HockeyBasedNYC
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A little unclear as to what you mean by what they are "worth" - worth to the Rangers? Worth to me? Worth to the league?

As far as what I think they are worth to the team -

Jagr- 0

Avery- 1 year at $3.5M

Rozsival- 1 year at $2.5

Mara- 1 year $1.5M

Straka- 0

Shanny- 0

Vally- 1 year $900k..

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Old
06-26-2008, 02:07 PM
  #30
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never know

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
You think our kids can replace like 2/3 of our offensive production from last year?
We will never know till we let them play.

Instead we throw tons of money at players over the hill.

I rather lose a season and see what we really are capbale of.

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Old
06-26-2008, 02:23 PM
  #31
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Jagr-1 year contract $6.5M with added bonuses that could reach $8M.

Avery-2 years $3.5M/yr

Rozsival-3 years $3.5M/yr

Mara-1 year $2.5M

Straka-1 year $2M...

Shanny-1 year $1M..

Vally-15 years $900k/yr

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Old
06-26-2008, 02:25 PM
  #32
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Jagr- 2 year / 12 mio

Avery- 2 year / 5,5 mio

Rozsival- 3 year / 13 mio

Mara- 1 year / 1.5 mio

Straka- 1 year / 1,85 mio

Shanny- 1 year / 0,85 mio

Vally- 1 year / 0,85 mio

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Old
06-26-2008, 02:31 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyGSpot View Post
We will never know till we let them play.

Instead we throw tons of money at players over the hill.

I rather lose a season and see what we really are capbale of.
Who was the last player we threw a lot of money at that was over the hill? Shanny, maybe, but even he contributed. We've seen the likes of Prucha, Dawes, Callhan, Dubinsky, Girardi, Lundqvist and Staal become significant contributors over the past three seasons, so I think it's time to put the "we only play/pay vets" thing to rest.

This isn't a black-and-white issue. We can give the youth a shot while still fortifying the team with proven talent. Doing so would allow us to compete this season and develop talent at the same time. What is wrong with that?

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Old
06-26-2008, 02:36 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
A little unclear as to what you mean by what they are "worth" - worth to the Rangers? Worth to me? Worth to the league?

As far as what I think they are worth to the team -

Jagr- 0

Avery- 1 year at $3.5M

Rozsival- 1 year at $2.5

Mara- 1 year $1.5M

Straka- 0

Shanny- 0

Vally- 1 year $900k..

It's what they are worth to you...

Jagr is worth 0 to you? what's your backup plan for losing Jagr?

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Old
06-26-2008, 02:45 PM
  #35
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Jagr--7 mil with bonuses-1 year or 13 for 2 years-no bonuses for 2nd year.
Avery--3.8 per for 3 years.
Roszival-3 per for 2 years. Valiquette-700K--1 year.
Mara--2 per for 2 years.
Valiquette--700K for 1 year.

No Shanny, Strudwick, Straka.

That should leave 4-5 million for about 4 other spots for take your pick--Korpikoski, Byers, Moore, perhaps Parenteau now he's signed, Potter, Pock.

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Old
06-26-2008, 02:49 PM
  #36
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Jagr - priceless within reasonable cap restrictions.

The rest are whatever... except Shanny who is a burden at any price.

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Old
06-26-2008, 03:13 PM
  #37
HockeyBasedNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
It's what they are worth to you...

Jagr is worth 0 to you? what's your backup plan for losing Jagr?
Please, dont get me started.

...

fine.

I would rather the Rangers go out and get compliments to Drury and Gomez, solid defenseman, possibly a pp quarterback if that could be had than WASTE another year of team-wide defering to Jagr, the style of play and his need for his own surrounding cast to be successful.

Some of you are saying you want Jagr for 2 years. When he is 38 in 2010 and is producing the same as he did most of last season (which is not scoring or setting up plays for long stretches) it is almost guaranteed to be a bad decision. One that could be regretted quite sooner than that I might add. Not to mention having to make concessions to please the man on the ice with the style of the powerplay and even personnel.

I want the Rangers to move on from the Jagr era, and help form the team around the centers you broke the bank to get last July. Not to mention a little help on Defense for a stellar young goalie.

I see no reason for a "stop gap" player or players like Jagr and Sundin, especially when your top prospect Cherepanov is no where NEAR a lock to even come to training camp this year and next nevermind actually play in a Blueshirt.

You want to go after Hossa you say? I dont want him either. Its not as simple as shelling out lucrative contracts to get guys in here with star power and numbers.

Form a plan. Get guys on the upswing of their careers through trades that can help Drury and Gomez. Make some creative moves and signings that set yourself up for the future, while not patching up next season with the easy way out - Jagr.

There are a ton of options out there. I'm not going to get into specifics because i dont have the time to scout, thats Sather and the Rangers job.

Thats what i'd liek to see happen.

Now... what WILL happen is something totally different. I'm not naive to think the Rangers won't pursue some big name FA's this summer, nor am I shortsighted enough to think that they might think the same thing about Cherepanov's bleak future. I'd stop delaying the inevitable, which is the realization that you have two centers without the surrounding cast they need to perform.

I wouldn't wait another year to give them what they need to maximize their potential.

And it doesnt have to be superstar wingers either.

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Old
06-26-2008, 03:25 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I wouldn't wait another year to give them what they need to maximize their potential.
What potential? It's time to admit their signing was a mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
And it doesnt have to be superstar wingers either.
Only a superstar will be better then Jagr and you know that. Why do we need to rid of Jagr if we have plenty of holes in top 6 even if he stays?

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06-26-2008, 03:49 PM
  #39
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Hbnyc..

I don't disagree with your plan, but you have to give to get and are you ready to give up certain players?

Here's what the team currently looks like (it's a cut and paste, so ignore the parentheses):

Dawes (21) (although Dawes still needs to be qualified) - Gomez (20) - Prucha (20)
Korpikoski (6) -Drury (22) - Cally (14)
Byers (4) -Dubi (11) - G. Moore (7)
Hollweg (2) - Betts (6) - Orr (2)

Defense:

Potter (3) - Staal (3)
Girardi (11) - Tyutin (7)
Backman (8) - Pock (6)

Is the above a team that will compete? Should Dubi be with guys who are in their first NHL seasons? Should Korps be in a role he may not yet be ready to be in? Of course not, and I think you're saying this. Now, the holes need to be filled, and with whom do you fill them? There are a few wingers available, and there are many buyers out there, so there's no guarantee the Rangers can get one of them. As such, a guy like Jagr probably should be on the radar. At a minimum, is it good for Dubi to continue to play with Jagr? I'm not sure it hurts. The guy scored 70 points playing with a rookie in Dubi and a loser in Hossa for the first fifth of the season. The stop gap is so the team can continue to compete while prospects develop (and are not blocked). Otherwise, as you see above, you have Korps on a second line. Dubi centering two rookies, which may not do much for Dubi's development.

As for trades - who do you give up and what type of player do you get? Is now the right time to get that young stud, with so many holes to fill, or is now the time to continue to grow the prospects and go for that guy later?

I get your point, but just think at this stage, Jagr should be an option. Sundin's another story. I'm just not in love with Drury moving to wing, even though depth at wing is weak. Perhaps I can get used to it, if Drury can of course, but I just hate moving people around.

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06-26-2008, 03:51 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
10 points in 10 playoff games puts Straka in the "DONE" category in your opinion? I can understand the mindset of (Straka is holding back a young player with his roster spot or we need to get bigger on the wings) I may not agree with that train of thought but I can understand it. However, to lump Straka into the same group as Shanny and Strudwick is absurd to me. According to this logic every single player on the team outside of Jagr and Gomez are "done" because Straka outscored all of them in the playoffs.
He is done in the NHL.

He is playing in the Czech Republic.

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Old
06-26-2008, 03:54 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
What potential? It's time to admit their signing was a mistake.



Only a superstar will be better then Jagr and you know that. Why do we need to rid of Jagr if we have plenty of holes in top 6 even if he stays?
I'm not arguing that! The bottom line is that they are on the team, they are the top two centers, and whether you like it or not they are superstars because they are getting paid as superstars.

Not until the cap goes up 10-15 million will they be considered otherwise.

So you have to make due with what you have.

Why sign Sundin (or another expensive top line center) and Jagr for 6 million each when you're ignoring that you have two centers below them that are making more?!

The potential has not been reached by any means. Not until Gomez has a 40 goal scorer on his wing and gets 90-100 points. And he IS capable of that.

Why not compliment that asap instead of stringing along another year without it?

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06-26-2008, 04:07 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I don't disagree with your plan, but you have to give to get and are you ready to give up certain players?

Here's what the team currently looks like (it's a cut and paste, so ignore the parentheses):

Dawes (21) (although Dawes still needs to be qualified) - Gomez (20) - Prucha (20)
Korpikoski (6) -Drury (22) - Cally (14)
Byers (4) -Dubi (11) - G. Moore (7)
Hollweg (2) - Betts (6) - Orr (2)

Defense:

Potter (3) - Staal (3)
Girardi (11) - Tyutin (7)
Backman (8) - Pock (6)

Is the above a team that will compete? Should Dubi be with guys who are in their first NHL seasons? Should Korps be in a role he may not yet be ready to be in? Of course not, and I think you're saying this. Now, the holes need to be filled, and with whom do you fill them? There are a few wingers available, and there are many buyers out there, so there's no guarantee the Rangers can get one of them. As such, a guy like Jagr probably should be on the radar. At a minimum, is it good for Dubi to continue to play with Jagr? I'm not sure it hurts. The guy scored 70 points playing with a rookie in Dubi and a loser in Hossa for the first fifth of the season. The stop gap is so the team can continue to compete while prospects develop (and are not blocked). Otherwise, as you see above, you have Korps on a second line. Dubi centering two rookies, which may not do much for Dubi's development.

As for trades - who do you give up and what type of player do you get? Is now the right time to get that young stud, with so many holes to fill, or is now the time to continue to grow the prospects and go for that guy later?

I get your point, but just think at this stage, Jagr should be an option. Sundin's another story. I'm just not in love with Drury moving to wing, even though depth at wing is weak. Perhaps I can get used to it, if Drury can of course, but I just hate moving people around.
I think the Rangers are prepared to make a trade for a winger for Drury or Gomez. I'm not talking about unloading Sangs and Staal to get that guy either. If a pure sniper comes along maybe you could think about letting Cherepanov go if they are interested. But figuring the logistics of it all is too complicated.

My point though is look at a guy like Gionta. He had a 90 point season with Gomez because
he could skate with the guy and finish plays. What would a pre-90 point Gionta fetch on the open market today or what would he cost through trade? Find that guy. He's out there. Guys on the upswing of their careers.

I know, easier said than done. But i'd rather take that risk than sign Jagr again and HOPE he has a better year than last year, because lets face it - Minus the playoffs he had a pretty sub-par year. Theres nothing suggesting he'll turn that around for me.

Hell - i'd take a flyer on a Nagy type that might take a lot less to get his career jump started. That kind of player will probably be seeking a lower level deal with less years because hes got talent and can hit the market again in 1 or 2 years. RFAs, guys with 1 year left on the contracts. I'd rather take a risk on them and give something up, then have to paddle through another year of a Jagr centralized team.

Its really more about the direction i want this team to head in than the actual players brought in or traded away. I could sit down for a week and a half and come up with trade proposals and UFA ideas, but i dont get paid to do that. It'll be a huge waste of time anyhow, considering I know Sather is going to take the easy way out anyway.

I want to see some creativity.

You bring up very solid points, all valid. And i know you agree with my sentiments Fletch, we usually are on the same plane of thinking with this team. I just think you like to see the evidence in front of you and thats cool, i just dont have time to play GM.

I'd just rather get some smaller, less flashy pieces that are younger and can skate and finish than resign Jagr. And you really only need 2 if you think about it.

Throw in a solid dman and a pp guy if youre lucky and theres your team.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 06-26-2008 at 04:15 PM.
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Old
06-26-2008, 05:21 PM
  #43
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I'm not as convinced that Cherepanov is the real deal as much as some others but he is not a player I'd be willing to move just to get a winger to play with Gomez this year. That guy would not only have to be really really good (a legit 1st liner) but he would still have to be very young as well. On Jagr I had a one and a two year scenario--I would prefer the one though but I'm not sure that he stays then. Like Fletch I think keeping him helps Dubinsky become a better player which is not a bad thing. I'm all for spending the cap space we have to fill our holes--I just don't want long term deals to players who when push comes to shove just might disappear--Hossa, Ryder, Huselius etc. This simply is just not a good year for free agents and as for trades you have to give to get and the Rangers cannot afford to give a lot at the moment.

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06-26-2008, 05:39 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I don't disagree with your plan, but you have to give to get and are you ready to give up certain players?

Here's what the team currently looks like (it's a cut and paste, so ignore the parentheses):

Dawes (21) (although Dawes still needs to be qualified) - Gomez (20) - Prucha (20)
Korpikoski (6) -Drury (22) - Cally (14)
Byers (4) -Dubi (11) - G. Moore (7)
Hollweg (2) - Betts (6) - Orr (2)

Defense:

Potter (3) - Staal (3)
Girardi (11) - Tyutin (7)
Backman (8) - Pock (6)

Is the above a team that will compete? Should Dubi be with guys who are in their first NHL seasons? Should Korps be in a role he may not yet be ready to be in? Of course not, and I think you're saying this. Now, the holes need to be filled, and with whom do you fill them? There are a few wingers available, and there are many buyers out there, so there's no guarantee the Rangers can get one of them. As such, a guy like Jagr probably should be on the radar. At a minimum, is it good for Dubi to continue to play with Jagr? I'm not sure it hurts. The guy scored 70 points playing with a rookie in Dubi and a loser in Hossa for the first fifth of the season. The stop gap is so the team can continue to compete while prospects develop (and are not blocked). Otherwise, as you see above, you have Korps on a second line. Dubi centering two rookies, which may not do much for Dubi's development.

As for trades - who do you give up and what type of player do you get? Is now the right time to get that young stud, with so many holes to fill, or is now the time to continue to grow the prospects and go for that guy later?

I get your point, but just think at this stage, Jagr should be an option. Sundin's another story. I'm just not in love with Drury moving to wing, even though depth at wing is weak. Perhaps I can get used to it, if Drury can of course, but I just hate moving people around.
Excellent post. With that lineup, we can say hello to Tavares or Hedman next year....not that I wouldn't mind that . The Rangers absolutely have to make some quantity for quality trades this offseason if they want to make the playoffs next year. You also brought up the point of Jagr, and while I believe he is an option, whether or not he signs here will dictate the future path that the Rangers take. If he doesn't sign here, Slats has the option of standing pat or making a run at Hossa. If Jagr comes back, it will signal one last run at the Cup for him. To be honest, I'd rather go into rebuilding mode again and see what the kids can do if Jagr decides to leave.

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06-26-2008, 07:55 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Only a superstar will be better then Jagr and you know that. Why do we need to rid of Jagr if we have plenty of holes in top 6 even if he stays?
You don't need a superstar to replace Jagr. Michael Ryder could become really good on Gomez' wing. Rolston could. Just because someone isn't a superstar doesn't mean they won't be better. Shane Doan had more points than Jagr did in less games and he isn't a superstar. That isn't a reason to keep Jagr.

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06-27-2008, 10:01 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I'm not arguing that! The bottom line is that they are on the team, they are the top two centers, and whether you like it or not they are superstars because they are getting paid as superstars.

Not until the cap goes up 10-15 million will they be considered otherwise.

So you have to make due with what you have.

Why sign Sundin (or another expensive top line center) and Jagr for 6 million each when you're ignoring that you have two centers below them that are making more?!

The potential has not been reached by any means. Not until Gomez has a 40 goal scorer on his wing and gets 90-100 points. And he IS capable of that.

Why not compliment that asap instead of stringing along another year without it?
Neither one is 1st line C. That is the hard fact. I do not mind to get them some offensive help in form of Ryder or other second tier wings, but without legit 1st line we are going to waste another year of Henrik's carrier.

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06-27-2008, 10:14 AM
  #47
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Jagr-1 year contract $5-6m

Avery-3 year $10m

Rozsival- 2 yr $8m

Mara-2 years $4M

Vally-1 year $900k..

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06-27-2008, 10:15 AM
  #48
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Hbnyc...

I don't disagree that there may be a trade there that's better than a UFA signing. I just look at this club and am not sure Drury and Gomez can carry the offensive load with the addition of a flyer at this point. Also, I'm skeptical as to what this team's prospects can actually return, other than a few of the usual suspects. Perhaps I'm just thinking that if this team isn't trading one of its top five, the return may not be much and there's no depth to replace any of the top five yet.

As for Jagr...personally I think he had a tough season. Although somehow he was able to score 70 points while being a huge focal point of other teams' game plans and while playing extensively with Hossa on his left and Dubi in the middle, who scored about one point in his first 20 games. Beginning with that handicap, I'm thinking that 70 points isn't all that bad. My real worry (and this is if we want to see a team that competes this season) is that with Jagr gone there's more of a load for others to share and I'm not sure who shoulders that load (of course my real problem is that the team has a lot of open holes right now and who knows how they'll be filled - and that's the real problem - you don't typically want to end a season with your top six wingers being UFAs).

And of course my fears would be alleviated if this team can secure a top 6 winger through a trade and a UFA signing while not giving guys like Dawes, Girardi, Staal and Tyutin. My point has been that Jagr can still contribute to the growth of the team and its prospects and be productive and that he may make a nice bridge to, say, Cherepanov.

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