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The "Gretzky was protected" myth.

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Old
06-26-2008, 10:38 PM
  #76
Dennis Bonvie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cawz View Post
What do you want people to say? Yes Gretzky, like other stars, had some muscle riding shotgun. This is not a phenomenon pertaining only to the Great One. Its just that nobody cares that, say, Steve Yzerman had McClelland, Probert and Kocur on his team becasue people are not trying to normalize his stats.

Feel free to answer my questions.
There is the problem, with your premiss. Gretzky was like no other star in hockey history. His offensive records shattered everyone elses, he was the single biggest name in all of Canada, hands down. And yet he weighed about 170 and never made contact.
No, he was not like other stars.

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06-26-2008, 11:16 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
There is the problem, with your premiss. Gretzky was like no other star in hockey history. His offensive records shattered everyone elses, he was the single biggest name in all of Canada, hands down. And yet he weighed about 170 and never made contact.
No, he was not like other stars.
Oh, I agree he wasnt like other stars. But its not like he had extraordinary protection, unknown to any other player in the league.

To say Gretzky was never protected is an exageration. Any good gm will protect their stars. But to say that Gretzky re-wrote the record book becasue he was protected is even more of an exageration.

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06-27-2008, 12:53 AM
  #78
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I'm all for myth bustin', but this is just completely ridiculous. and the OPer is claiming he watched the Gretzky era? That's just not possible, or there's been a lot of memory loss since then. Not to take away from his accomplishments, but Gretz has got to have been the most "protected" player in the history of the NHL.

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06-27-2008, 02:39 AM
  #79
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People seem pretty split on this issue... I'm going to assert that the truth lies somewhere down the middle. I think it's a combination of everything that's been mentioned. On one hand it's true that he was protected by his enforcers, maybe even more so than the average superstar. He was also possibly protected to a certain degree by the refs/league, as someone in this thread said when he mentioned human bias. On the other hand, he was also very elusive and simply great at avoiding hits, thanks in large part to his unmatched hockey sense.

I think it's also a matter of respect, especially later on in his career. How many nonphysical 30-35+ years old superstar forwards get pasted on a regular basis? When players have earned their stripes for long enough, they tend to get a break from the rest of the league. This was true for Gretzky, it was true for Yzerman, and it's true for Sakic today as well.

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06-27-2008, 05:19 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by lextune View Post

Occasionally, (rarely though it was), someone would catch him with his head down.

Witness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72oxwUo1T9E&NR=1
Wasn't that McCreary's last game in the NHL?

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06-27-2008, 05:59 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by RUSqueelin View Post
What the myth is that players intentionally decided not to give Wayne a bodycheck or the ref's made sure no hit him or he had a free ride. This is the myth. Gretzky avoided contact like the plague during actual play. That's where his smarts came in like peopke are saying etc etc etc. Opposition tried like heck to lay Gretzky out with a bodycheck, it was nearly impossible. Watch some old games.
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Originally Posted by willus3 View Post
How do you then explain all of the times I witnessed where a player could have been physical with Gretzky and would have been with any other player but weren't with him? Go back and watch some 80's Oiler's games. It won't take long before you see it happen if you watch for it.
Yes he was good at eluding hits but he was not "unhittable" like people are trying to say. A lot of times they could hit and just didn't or let up a lot.
I do think he was pretty funny that Dale Hunter slowed down as he approached Gretzky in the corners and along the boards. He did this consistently and repeatedly, i.e. multiple times in almost every game against Wayne. With any other player, Hunter smashes them silly.

I don't think it was any one thing. I think many players recognized that Gretzky was a special talent, good for the game, etc. They respected what he was doing for the game so they gave him a pass. OTOH, players like Semenko and McSorley were there as a deterrent for those that didn't have the same respect.

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06-27-2008, 09:19 AM
  #82
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1) When it comes to McCreary, the guy wasn't good enough to play in the NHL, so the hit made no difference in his career.

2) I think I have seen one person claim that Gretzky did not have body guards, other then that everyone knows he did...just like every other star at that time. What people are arguing is that there was not some big conspiracy to protect him. Irodptl, I can't tell if you do not know the difference, if you are simply arguing to argue or if you have a case of chooch disease.

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06-27-2008, 11:14 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by lemieux32 View Post
1) When it comes to McCreary, the guy wasn't good enough to play in the NHL, so the hit made no difference in his career.

2) I think I have seen one person claim that Gretzky did not have body guards, other then that everyone knows he did...just like every other star at that time. What people are arguing is that there was not some big conspiracy to protect him. Irodptl, I can't tell if you do not know the difference, if you are simply arguing to argue or if you have a case of chooch disease.
No conspiracy at all,it was flat out admitted by Semenko and McSorley. Please read my prior dubious quotes.

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06-27-2008, 11:28 AM
  #84
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I don't think anyone denies he had 'bodyguards'.

As the original poster I can say that that is not what I meant to imply. As I said later in the thread the part that is a myth is that "no one tried to hit him" because of those bodyguards.

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06-27-2008, 12:36 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
No conspiracy at all,it was flat out admitted by Semenko and McSorley. Please read my prior dubious quotes.
Once again this discussion is not about having bodyguards, everyone knows he did (as did every other star) with the exception of one guy. I guess you simply want to argue.

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06-27-2008, 12:49 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
No conspiracy at all,it was flat out admitted by Semenko and McSorley. Please read my prior dubious quotes.
I'm not sure you know what dubious means. But anyway

Your quotes basically show that Gretzky had protection because he was Edmonton's best player.

Nowhere can I find an actual quote that Gretzky demanded McSorley be dealt to LA as well.

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06-27-2008, 01:06 PM
  #87
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The fact that Gretzky had bodyguards is normal, no one would deny that..it's part of hockey. But what I find weird is that later on in his career no one dared to hit him..and that's not because he had bodyguards but because he was Gretzky. Players would slow down if they had a chance for an open ice hit, wouldn't go as hard in the corners on Gretzky..I remember watching games wondering how weird it was to see how no one wanted to be the one to hit Gretzky especially when he was in his 30's. It's like night and day when you compare how Lemieux was treated by other players.

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06-27-2008, 01:29 PM
  #88
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The fact that Gretzky had bodyguards is normal, no one would deny that..it's part of hockey. But what I find weird is that later on in his career no one dared to hit him..and that's not because he had bodyguards but because he was Gretzky. Players would slow down if they had a chance for an open ice hit, wouldn't go as hard in the corners on Gretzky..I remember watching games wondering how weird it was to see how no one wanted to be the one to hit Gretzky especially when he was in his 30's. It's like night and day when you compare how Lemieux was treated by other players.
Well, I think when a player reaches a certain status it's tough to play against them. Remember that players are just as much fans of the game as we are...if not more so.

If I were a big young defenseman and had a 35yo Gretzky lined up for a hit (which was easier said than done anyway)...I am sure that part of me would be saying "Holy ****! That's WAYNE GRETZKY!"

On the other hand, plenty of other superstars got mauled (such as Bossy and Lemieux).

Perhaps Gretzky's small size actually helped him in that regard. Bossy was as big as or bigger than many of the guys sent out to check him. Mario was a very big guy...so maybe there wasn't the same sense of "fragility" when hitting them.

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06-27-2008, 02:56 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
The man said it's true, Semenko says it's true, Sather coments on it to Brian Burke in an interview,Gretzky gives Semenko a car,Gretzky requests McSorley to accompany him in a trade to LA and everyone knew it at the time and revisionist history is a lie by you or anyone else.
Actually he doesn't. In fact he says the exact opposite.

I went ahead and scanned the pages from his autobiography to prove it because I wanted it in his own words.....





....O.K. ....now's the point where all the conspiracy people say;

"Oh...well...o.k., I was wrong about Gretz, but he's full of it anyway! Everybody else admits it though!"

....Onward and upward....

EDIT: As far as the car he won and gave to Semenko, Gretz says in the book that it was meant as a sign of recognition of how valuable he was to the team. (Funny story; he brings up Dave being put on his line that year for a while and scoring 6 goals in 7 games....and then ending the year with a grand total of 12, lol). He also notes that Dave had recently been ripped off of more than 100,000 dollars by an agent and was having serious money problems at the time, read into that what you will.

He also brings up that he has never really known what to spend his money on, (lol nice problem to have). "I'm not into buying 40 million dollar Van Goghs or anything, the only thing I splurge on is cars". He also gave a Bentley that he was "sick of driving" to Messier.....I guess that tells you something to.

ONE LAST EDIT: The McSorley story:



People can, and are, going to believe what they want, but lets not put words into anyone's mouths


Last edited by lextune: 06-27-2008 at 03:28 PM.
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Old
06-27-2008, 03:04 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by lextune View Post
Actually he says the exact opposite.

I went ahead and scanned the pages from his autobiography to prove it because I wanted it in his own words.....





....O.K. ....now's the point where all the conspiracy people say;

"Oh...well...o.k., I was wrong about Gretz, but he's full of it anyway! Everybody else admits it though!"

....Onward and upward....
Thank you!!

Gretzky said the hardest player to play against was Esa Tikkanen because he knew him so well and because Tik was so quick.

Bobby Clarke said Gretz was better than Bobby Orr because Clarke knew where Orr was going, but couldn't stop him. With Gretz, he didn't even know where he was coming from in the first place.

Stopping Gretzky was done successfully by the better thinkers.

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06-27-2008, 03:36 PM
  #91
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What about Dave Taylor one-punching Gretzky as someone posted before?
I guess the league-wide conspiracy glanced away for that one.

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06-27-2008, 03:48 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Agent Dale Cooper View Post
What about Dave Taylor one-punching Gretzky as someone posted before?
I guess the league-wide conspiracy glanced away for that one.
Oh come on everyone knows that Taylor was subsequently beaten my McSorely, Semenko and later, after being kicked out of the NHL, whacked by Don Paul Coffey after

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06-27-2008, 03:49 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Agent Dale Cooper View Post
What about Dave Taylor one-punching Gretzky as someone posted before?
I guess the league-wide conspiracy glanced away for that one.

What about no one being able to name a single other player that had a league wide rule changed on their behalf?

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06-27-2008, 04:15 PM
  #94
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What about no one being able to name a single other player that had a league wide rule changed on their behalf?
Clint Benedict
Quote:
At the time, dropping to the ice was illegal, but Benedict circumvented the rules by pretending to pray on his knees. This earned him the nickname "praying Benny." The first rule change of the NHL was made to legalize his playing style.

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06-27-2008, 04:16 PM
  #95
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Funny enough.

I was listening to sports radio in Edmonton a week or so ago. One of the old Calgary players was laughing about people saying they didnt tyr to hit Gretzky.

Truth is, they tryed every second he was on the ice.

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06-27-2008, 04:19 PM
  #96
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What about Sean Avery changing rules?

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06-27-2008, 04:29 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Vakar Lajos View Post
I'm not sure you know what dubious means. But anyway

Your quotes basically show that Gretzky had protection because he was Edmonton's best player.

Nowhere can I find an actual quote that Gretzky demanded McSorley be dealt to LA as well.
You don't like my posts so let's start insults right? You didn't get the sarcasm eh? Anything else you're not sure about?

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06-27-2008, 04:36 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by lrodptl View Post
You don't like my posts so let's start insults right? You didn't get the sarcasm eh? Anything else you're not sure about?

And I wasn't insulting you, just pointing out that I wasn't sure if you were using it correctly. My apologies if it offended you. Since you asked, I'm not sure about you quoting Wikipedia as gospel. As I've stated I have yet to see anything other than Wikipedia or second party sources claiming that Gretzky refused to be traded without Marty McSorley.

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06-27-2008, 04:39 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
What about no one being able to name a single other player that had a league wide rule changed on their behalf?
Sean Avery

Martin Brodeur

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Old
06-27-2008, 04:49 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Vakar Lajos View Post
As I've stated I have yet to see anything other than Wikipedia or second party sources claiming that Gretzky refused to be traded without Marty McSorley.
He did ask that McSorley be one of the players involved in he trade. See my scan of his autobiography above. Although his reasoning behind it is significantly different from that of the conspiracy believers...



Quote:
Originally Posted by lrodptl
You don't like my posts so let's start insults right?
Ummm.....Read this whole thread again from the beginning. It was you that started that....."smarty pants" it was, if I recall correctly.

I ignored it, but now that you have brought it up, I thought it should be clarified...........

Quote:
smarty-pants: obnoxiously self-assertive or arrogant
Pretty insulting if you ask me.

And btw, any acknowledgment of the total disproval of your claim that Greztky himself "said it"....?


Last edited by lextune: 06-27-2008 at 04:59 PM.
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