HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Prospects
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

Is it me...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-02-2004, 08:02 PM
  #1
thestonedkoala
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Is it me...

Or do the top end goalies this year feel like they are going to fall, especially if Los Angeles trades the pick for a team with a lot of goalies? The reason I ask is I was doing a mock and the Schwarz and Montoya always drop out of the first and almost down to the middle of the first round. It feels way to low for them to go...

 
Old
06-02-2004, 08:36 PM
  #2
Vlad The Impaler
Registered User
 
Vlad The Impaler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 11,727
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Or do the top end goalies this year feel like they are going to fall, especially if Los Angeles trades the pick for a team with a lot of goalies? The reason I ask is I was doing a mock and the Schwarz and Montoya always drop out of the first and almost down to the middle of the first round. It feels way to low for them to go...
IMO, more and more teams are going to realize what I have said for a while: it's futile to draft goalies too early because the overall quality of goaltending across the board is very high AND because this quality often comes from guys who were drafted very late.

It's just pointless and utterly stupid to waste a high draft pick on a guy who will be ready when he is 24-25 years old when you can draft guys who will jump on the top 6 forwards in 1 to 3 years sometimes.

There is the odd exception, but it's just profudly dumb to draft guys like Leclaire, etc. in the top 20. It's a waste of precious ressource on several levels. Keep in mind that goaltending requires extra care as far as development. If you draft North Americans, you must find them a place to play. With a skater it's never really an issue ever. You can also get handcuffed, as the jackets were in 2002 when they had to upgrade their pick because they didn't want to end up with Kari Lehtonen at 3rd overall when they already had Denis/Leclaire.

In the next few years the quality of goaltenders in the draft is going to continue to shine but people are going to figure out it's futile to draft them this early unless they are truly specials. And if they're all that great, they ain't that special anymore.

You can always make room for a quality D or quality forward but goaltenders? There is a limit on your needs. Not saying they aren't valuable but how much is enough? They don't even have great trade value because once again, the league is shining with quality goalies almost everywhere.

Vlad The Impaler is offline  
Old
06-02-2004, 09:16 PM
  #3
BobMarleyNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Alphabet
Country: Iraq
Posts: 2,955
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BobMarleyNYR
That's one reason mock drafts are a waste of time...

BobMarleyNYR is offline  
Old
06-02-2004, 09:30 PM
  #4
Broadway Brett
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Florida, but born in
Country: United States
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
IMO, more and more teams are going to realize what I have said for a while: it's futile to draft goalies too early because the overall quality of goaltending across the board is very high AND because this quality often comes from guys who were drafted very late.

It's just pointless and utterly stupid to waste a high draft pick on a guy who will be ready when he is 24-25 years old when you can draft guys who will jump on the top 6 forwards in 1 to 3 years sometimes.

There is the odd exception, but it's just profudly dumb to draft guys like Leclaire, etc. in the top 20. It's a waste of precious ressource on several levels. Keep in mind that goaltending requires extra care as far as development. If you draft North Americans, you must find them a place to play. With a skater it's never really an issue ever. You can also get handcuffed, as the jackets were in 2002 when they had to upgrade their pick because they didn't want to end up with Kari Lehtonen at 3rd overall when they already had Denis/Leclaire.

In the next few years the quality of goaltenders in the draft is going to continue to shine but people are going to figure out it's futile to draft them this early unless they are truly specials. And if they're all that great, they ain't that special anymore.

You can always make room for a quality D or quality forward but goaltenders? There is a limit on your needs. Not saying they aren't valuable but how much is enough? They don't even have great trade value because once again, the league is shining with quality goalies almost everywhere.
Great post. You are completely right, unless you're getting Patrick Roy the second, you shouldn't draft a goalie in the top 20, or the first round for that matter.

Broadway Brett is offline  
Old
06-02-2004, 09:58 PM
  #5
thestonedkoala
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Exactly, good post Vlad, but if you saw Schwarz at like 30th would you have a ehart attack?

 
Old
06-02-2004, 10:15 PM
  #6
Cabin Mirror
Registered User
 
Cabin Mirror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North America
Posts: 415
vCash: 500
I agree with Vlad. You can get an Andrew Raycroft or David Aebischer after the first round. Personally, I think the best bet is to draft a defenseman.

Cabin Mirror is offline  
Old
06-02-2004, 10:15 PM
  #7
cagney
cdojdmccjajgejncjaba
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,605
vCash: 500
While I agree with Vlad's take on this I'd have to say that I don't really expect the trend of drafting goalies early to change. It's true that in a lot of the mock drafts around here the goalies tend to fall (often as far as out of the top 20) but OTOH, I've seen a number of rankings done by professional services where goalies stay inside the top 10 or 15 (THN, McKeens etc.). I'd be more surprised to see Schwarz there at 30 than I would be to see both him and Montoya gone by the 10th pick.

cagney is offline  
Old
06-03-2004, 09:38 AM
  #8
West
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 664
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Or do the top end goalies this year feel like they are going to fall, especially if Los Angeles trades the pick for a team with a lot of goalies? The reason I ask is I was doing a mock and the Schwarz and Montoya always drop out of the first and almost down to the middle of the first round. It feels way to low for them to go...
I think that everyone agrees that Schwarz and Montoya while good are a step below Luongo, Fleury, Lehtonen(sp) which would drop them a bit. Secondly most posters here have a very high opinion of their teams goalteading depth and talent level.

ex. Carolina will not take a goaltender because they have Cam Ward, while I've always liked Ward I'd say that he's fifty fifty to become a true number one goalie due to the fact that not many excellent junior goalies can.

Or people saying Minnesota won't take a goalie because of Josh Harding. While Harding has done really well in the WHL I couldn't help but notice that Dustin Slade but up great numbers after replacing him and nobody is calling Slade a sure fire NHLer.

You can make a pretty good arguement like the above for just about 2/3 of the teams in the league.

Personally I feel anywhere from say 8-18 is reasonable place for them to go.

West is offline  
Old
06-03-2004, 11:27 AM
  #9
MacDaddy TLC*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Leafin La Vida Loca
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,478
vCash: 500
The fact there is a good number of quality netminders available may see them drop if teams think they can grab another position and still get a quality keeper later.

MacDaddy TLC* is offline  
Old
06-03-2004, 11:28 AM
  #10
Flyers33
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 278
vCash: 500
[/QUOTE]
ex. Carolina will not take a goaltender because they have Cam Ward, while I've always liked Ward I'd say that he's fifty fifty to become a true number one goalie due to the fact that not many excellent junior goalies can.

Or people saying Minnesota won't take a goalie because of Josh Harding. While Harding has done really well in the WHL I couldn't help but notice that Dustin Slade but up great numbers after replacing him and nobody is calling Slade a sure fire NHLer.

You can make a pretty good arguement like the above for just about 2/3 of the teams in the league.

Personally I feel anywhere from say 8-18 is reasonable place for them to go.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree with this. I would be shocked if either Schwarz or Montoya were available after pick # 20.

Flyers33 is offline  
Old
06-03-2004, 11:54 AM
  #11
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 23,764
vCash: 500
Picking goalies too high has been a trend in the last decade. Some are totally worth the price of admission - Lehtonen, Fleury, Luongo. Others get overrated, especially on size. If this was a few years back, Devan Dubnyk would go top 15. But since the Desrochers, Finley & Krahn picks i think it's becoming apparent that a tall goalie does not necessarily mean a good one, or at least one worthy of a top 1st round pick.

That being said, I love both top goalies this year. I think they are both very good and worthy of a pick anywhere from #7 to #20. Schwarz's physical attributes are well documented, but I think Montoya will surprise alot of people. He's a money goalie.


Last edited by Bluenote13: 06-03-2004 at 12:08 PM.
Bluenote13 is offline  
Old
06-03-2004, 12:22 PM
  #12
Jungle Boy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Recife, Brazil
Country: Brazil
Posts: 1,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
IMO, more and more teams are going to realize what I have said for a while: it's futile to draft goalies too early because the overall quality of goaltending across the board is very high AND because this quality often comes from guys who were drafted very late.

It's just pointless and utterly stupid to waste a high draft pick on a guy who will be ready when he is 24-25 years old when you can draft guys who will jump on the top 6 forwards in 1 to 3 years sometimes.

There is the odd exception, but it's just profudly dumb to draft guys like Leclaire, etc. in the top 20. It's a waste of precious ressource on several levels. Keep in mind that goaltending requires extra care as far as development. If you draft North Americans, you must find them a place to play. With a skater it's never really an issue ever. You can also get handcuffed, as the jackets were in 2002 when they had to upgrade their pick because they didn't want to end up with Kari Lehtonen at 3rd overall when they already had Denis/Leclaire.

In the next few years the quality of goaltenders in the draft is going to continue to shine but people are going to figure out it's futile to draft them this early unless they are truly specials. And if they're all that great, they ain't that special anymore.

You can always make room for a quality D or quality forward but goaltenders? There is a limit on your needs. Not saying they aren't valuable but how much is enough? They don't even have great trade value because once again, the league is shining with quality goalies almost everywhere.
AGREED!

Jungle Boy is offline  
Old
06-03-2004, 02:39 PM
  #13
thestonedkoala
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Minnesota will 'probably' take a goalie in the 2nd or definitely 3rd round.

 
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.