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Jagr Most Likely Not Coming Back- Larry Brooks

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06-28-2008, 07:09 AM
  #1
NYRangers09
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Jagr Most Likely Not Coming Back- Larry Brooks

I don't know about everyone else here, but I pray that this isnt true. Sather needs to realize that without Jagr this team needs too much work done to compete for the cup in the next 2 or 3 years.

The rest of our free agent group is very replaceable (besides Avery)

LETS GET TO WORK SATHER, YOU ONLY HAVE 3 DAYS!!!!!!!

Heres the link- http://www.nypost.com/seven/06282008...urn_117544.htm

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06-28-2008, 07:29 AM
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I knew this was coming after that conference Jagr gave a few days ago. I'd like Jagr to come back but if he goes, it's not the worst thing in the world. Well, it could be, depending on what Slats decides to do. I'm afraid he'll try to compensate for Jagr by signing Hossa which IMO, is not the right thing to do.

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06-28-2008, 07:32 AM
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Just my 2 cents but i think the rangers are better off investing cash in the defense and getting a few 4-5M dollar wingers. Gomez and Drury a great 1-2 punch, you just need to find guys to compliment them(and i don't think Jagr is a good compliment)

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06-28-2008, 07:33 AM
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And let him go to another NHL team. As we've seen here over the past 3 seasons, Jagr needs to have the team built around him to be successful nowadays. The only team in the East I can think of that might be able to accommodate his playing style is Montreal and they're already stacked on the wing. If they're stupid enough to sign him to a 2-3 year deal, let them.

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06-28-2008, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvmarberrys View Post
I don't know about everyone else here, but I pray that this isnt true. Sather needs to realize that without Jagr this team needs too much work done to compete for the cup in the next 2 or 3 years.
What makes you think this team can compete for a Cup even with Jagr? They've yet to do so, and Jagr's game is getting worse not better.

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06-28-2008, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
What makes you think this team can compete for a Cup even with Jagr? They've yet to do so, and Jagr's game is getting worse not better.
Regardless, it's far more likely they can do so with Jagr than without him.

I don't care what anyone says, Jagr would still be by far the best player on the Rangers, with him gone the team becomes mediocre, at best.

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06-28-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Regardless, it's far more likely they can do so with Jagr than without him.

I don't care what anyone says, Jagr would still be by far the best player on the Rangers, with him gone the team becomes mediocre, at best.
Exactly!

And there is absolutely no one in free agency that can serve as an immediate replacement.

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06-28-2008, 08:10 AM
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Besides the headline, there's nothing that indicates Jagr will not return. This is all old information. I think we need to wait until next week before we start taking opinions as fact.

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06-28-2008, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Regardless, it's far more likely they can do so with Jagr than without him.
It's not "regardless." If the team's not going to be a Cup contender with him in the line-up, you can't use Cup contention as a reason for signing him.

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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
I don't care what anyone says, Jagr would still be by far the best player on the Rangers, with him gone the team becomes mediocre, at best.
What the team would become, it seems to me, would depend on what other moves Sather made. You seem to be assuming Jagr is allowed to walk and nothing else is done.

And saying Jagr was the best player for a team that ended the season two games above .500 to be smashed by a legit Cup contender is saying little, IMO. Is that a measure of Jagr's abilities or a measure of the team's weaknesses?

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06-28-2008, 08:30 AM
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Jagr is the only person on our roster that can take over a game. Its not even close, and their is no one available on the market this summer who can do it. Can we become a team of individual parts that as a whole function above its talent level?? Maybe, but its gonna take some time. Without Jags I fear we dont even make the playoffs. Hell, with out jags we may not of won a playoff game this year. All the people saying let him go are going to be crying for him back when the gomez or drury line is drawing top checking and defensive pairs every night. Jeez sather, the least you could do is give him the 2 or 3 yr contract and trade him next summer instead of letting him walk for nothing.

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06-28-2008, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by iluvmarberrys View Post
Exactly!

And there is absolutely no one in free agency that can serve as an immediate replacement.
Wrong way looking at it that you have to replace Jagr. You have to look at it that you take the money he frees up and find players who you could (potentially) build a better team with.

Like i said I would try improve the defense for starters and take the money freed up by Jagr, Straka, Shanahan??? and Avery????? and try find guys who will compliment Gomez and Drury better.

On the negative side i guess this years batch of Free agents aren't that great, so if you could get Jagr to sign a 1-2 year deal then maybe you go that root.

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06-28-2008, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Regardless, it's far more likely they can do so with Jagr than without him.

I don't care what anyone says, Jagr would still be by far the best player on the Rangers, with him gone the team becomes mediocre, at best.
Not to sure about that, our PP has suffered because of his philosiphy of think pass first, the coaching staff wants shots, jagr does not. Players don't know who to listen to. It's time for Jagr to go, Gomez is far more important to this team now, so it is important to get him a winger he can play with.

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06-28-2008, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
It's not "regardless." If the team's not going to be a Cup contender with him in the line-up, you can't use Cup contention as a reason for signing him.
when did I use Cup contention as a reason for signing him? my point was simply that the Rangers have a better chance at contending for the Cup with Jagr in the lineup.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post

What the team would become, it seems to me, would depend on what other moves Sather made. You seem to be assuming Jagr is allowed to walk and nothing else is done.
this is what I'm afraid of, and is the main reason I want Jagr back, so that it prevents Sather from going out and offering a ridiculous amount of money to Hossa, which we all know is what's going to happen if Jagr doesn't come back. Hossa isn't a guy you build a team around, he's a complementary piece, which is why he did so well in Pittsburgh.

Sather is incapable of going after a "big name" to replace Jagr if he leaves, plain and simple.


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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post

And saying Jagr was the best player for a team that ended the season two games above .500 to be smashed by a legit Cup contender is saying little, IMO. Is that a measure of Jagr's abilities or a measure of the team's weaknesses?
I don't consider OT/SO losses to be actual losses, therefore I don't see them as 2 games above .500, but 15 games above .500.

Anyway, I'm referring to individual talent, not team performance. Individually, Jagr is far more skilled than the next best player on the Rangers (probably Gomez). Removing him from the equation significantly weakens the team, while at the same time significantly strengthening any other NHL team he signs with. If that's an East team like the Pens or Habs, the Rangers can't compete with that, period.

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06-28-2008, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Not to sure about that, our PP has suffered because of his philosiphy of think pass first, the coaching staff wants shots, jagr does not. Players don't know who to listen to. It's time for Jagr to go, Gomez is far more important to this team now, so it is important to get him a winger he can play with.
If the PP failures are all Jagr's fault, what excuse does the 2nd unit have?

Jagr averaged only 55 seconds of TOI/pp this year, down around 15 seconds from the year before. That leaves, on average, just about a full minute for the other unit to be on the ice. So what's their excuse?

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06-28-2008, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
Jagr is the only person on our roster that can take over a game.
Agreed. Which doesn't change a thing of what I wrote. It's well and good that he can do this, although I hope you'll, agree that his capability for doing it has dropped and will continue to do so. At the same time, his ability - when he can and is willing to display it - has not made this team a Cup contender.

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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
their is no one available on the market this summer who can do it.
Marian Hossa can take over a game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
Can we become a team of individual parts that as a whole function above its talent level?? Maybe, but its gonna take some time.
In answer to your question: have they thus far with Jagr? Part of the problem is that Jagr demands the offense run through him when he's on the ice. Is that condusive to generating a team of individual parts that operate above its collective talent level?

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Without Jags I fear we dont even make the playoffs
Maybe. Depends on what other moves Sather makes, but even assuming he makes none, is your ambition for this team to make the playoffs? To merely repeat the last three years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
All the people saying let him go are going to be crying for him back when the gomez or drury line is drawing top checking and defensive pairs every night.
Why don't you save that? Projecting your own thoughts onto others is pointless, don't you think?

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06-28-2008, 08:45 AM
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Hello Gentlemen,

A Montreal fan here, wanted to know how reliable Brooks is on the first place, because of my knowledge, He hasnt the best reputation about rumours and such.. but maybe i am wrong, personally like some of you think, Believe Jagr can take over a game, and when motivated is a major source of distraction.. a la Kovalev... I would be seriously interested... as we arent stack on the wing.. as a fact.. we do not have a major offensive player on right wing after Kovalev, unless you think Sergei Kostitsyn (the young brother is ready) I dont think so.

As for the Rangers, Hossa wouldnt be a bad move, as it could at least give your team to find a style identity with such a player signed long term.. while Jagr is more of a fit for a contender, wich in my opinion dont think the rangers are right now.. maybe after july 1st.. who knows.


Good luck on your season, and lets hope to have some memorable games in 09' BTW, if we are dumb enough to let Streit go, I read rumours of him going to NYR if he does you will be thrilled by his puck possesion and anticipation on the powerplay, major asset that Gainey seem to underate.

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06-28-2008, 08:50 AM
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For sheer cap flexibilty, the Rangers CANNOT sign Jagr to a two-year deal. He has to take a one-year deal with makable bonuses, so the Rangers are able to pursue other players. If the Rangers give Jagr the contact he wants, the Rangers can't roll his bonus into next year, and they have less room to sign other players. It's that simple.

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06-28-2008, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
when did I use Cup contention as a reason for signing him? my point was simply that the Rangers have a better chance at contending for the Cup with Jagr in the lineup.
1. iluvmarberrys used Cup contention as his reason. I replied to his post, and you responded to my rebuttal of him. It seems reasonable to assume you wer adopting his position.

2. There is no "chance" here. Either the team is a Cup contender or it's not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
this is what I'm afraid of, and is the main reason I want Jagr back, so that it prevents Sather from going out and offering a ridiculous amount of money to Hossa, which we all know is what's going to happen if Jagr doesn't come back. Hossa isn't a guy you build a team around, he's a complementary piece, which is why he did so well in Pittsburgh.
And you're of the mind that Jagr IS someone around whom to build a team? As for Hossa, even if he were only that, I see that as no problem at all. An elite complementary player lined up next to Scott Gomez would, IMO, be just as effective as a declining Jagr, quite probably more so.

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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
I don't consider OT/SO losses to be actual losses, therefore I don't see them as 2 games above .500, but 15 games above .500.
*chuckles* You're willing to count overtime and shootout wins as wins, but you're NOT willing to count overtime and shootout losses as losses.

Convenient indeed.

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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Anyway, I'm referring to individual talent, not team performance. Individually, Jagr is far more skilled than the next best player on the Rangers (probably Gomez). Removing him from the equation significantly weakens the team, while at the same time significantly strengthening any other NHL team he signs with. If that's an East team like the Pens or Habs, the Rangers can't compete with that, period.
And what makes you think the Rangers can compete with Pittsburgh at present? Certainly not their playoff performance with Jagr in the line-up playing about as well as he can.

We'll keep doing the same dance on your first statement: whether or how much weaker the Rangers get depends entirely on what Sather does instead of signing Jagr. If you're of the mind that absolutely no combination of moves can possibly make up for the loss of Jagr, I can see you point. I am far from that mind. There was a time when Jagr was that good, but those days have passed him by.


Last edited by dedalus: 06-28-2008 at 09:07 AM.
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06-28-2008, 09:35 AM
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I would be relatively happy with either outcome. If the Rangers resign Jagr, we wont have the chemistry issues we had throughout last year, because we could start of with Jagr-Dubinsky right off the bat, instead of jerking the lines around for 4 months. If not, then it should be time to build around Gomez on offense and Staal on defense, and the Rangers will need a bona fide top line winger to play with Gomer.

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06-28-2008, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iluvmarberrys View Post
Exactly!

And there is absolutely no one in free agency that can serve as an immediate replacement.
How do you know? No one knows how someone like Rolston or Ryder or another winger might mesh with Gomez. It may be a bad combo but there is a huge potential for it to be a good combination. If Jagr goes, the Rangers will change their style of play to a much faster game which will suit guys Gomez, Drury, Dubinsky, Prucha, Callahan, Dawes, Sjostrom, Korpikoski, and Callahan much better than the slower game that the Rangers have been playing with Jagr. It may be a rough year but it is apart of the growing pains of any team. This team will be allowed to develop further and allow a guy like Prucha to get away from playing with Jagr and let him have a real chance of scoring 30 goals again.

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06-28-2008, 09:48 AM
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He deserves the 2 year deal. He is the captain. Still one of the few Elites in the game.

Get it done

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06-28-2008, 09:57 AM
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He deserves the 2 year deal. He is the captain. Still one of the few Elites in the game.

Get it done
You do understand why they Rangers don't want to go past one year, don't you? They want to be able to have the flexibility to add other players. Sign Jagr to more than one year, then you can't give him a bunus-laden contract, and roll those bonuses into next year. You lose close to $3 million in cap space. It has nothing to do with "being the captain" and everything to do with the high-wire act that is putting together a roster in the salary cap era.

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06-28-2008, 09:58 AM
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You can't win the SC on the back of one player, no matter how great. It's inevitable that Jagr will leave, I would not be upset and believe we'd be OK without him.

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06-28-2008, 10:25 AM
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I'm glad I got his autograph on my Czech national jersey in Feb!

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06-28-2008, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
1. iluvmarberrys used Cup contention as his reason. I replied to his post, and you responded to my rebuttal of him. It seems reasonable to assume you wer adopting his position.

2. There is no "chance" here. Either the team is a Cup contender or it's not.




And you're of the mind that Jagr IS someone around whom to build a team? As for Hossa, even if he were only that, I see that as no problem at all. An elite complementary player lined up next to Scott Gomez would, IMO, be just as effective as a declining Jagr, quite probably more so.



*chuckles* You're willing to count overtime and shootout wins as wins, but you're NOT willing to count overtime and shootout losses as losses.

Convenient indeed.



And what makes you think the Rangers can compete with Pittsburgh at present? Certainly not their playoff performance with Jagr in the line-up playing about as well as he can.

We'll keep doing the same dance on your first statement: whether or how much weaker the Rangers get depends entirely on what Sather does instead of signing Jagr. If you're of the mind that absolutely no combination of moves can possibly make up for the loss of Jagr, I can see you point. I am far from that mind. There was a time when Jagr was that good, but those days have passed him by.
You don't know what you're talking about

Jagr may not be as "good" as he was 2 years ago and whatnot, but he was the best player in the playoffs before the team exited. He was averaging 1.5 ppg!

As for Hossa, I don't consider him on the same level as Jagr, even when Jagr is not at his best he is still far more dominant imo. Even with his great numbers, I still consider Hossa somewhat of a complimentary player rather than an elite talent. He played with Crosby and Malkin during the playoffs, Jagr played with a rookie as his center and still outscored him. End of story

Secondly, stop exaggerating everything. That second round could have gotten either way had we gotten a little luckier. The officials clearly favored the Pens, we had two big injuries in Drury and Avery, and still most of the games were decided by a goal. It wasn't as one sided as you seem to insist. Yes the better team won, but just one goal could have turned that series around.

Also, the "your team is either a cup contender or not" is simple BS. We've seen tons of "Cup Contender" teams exit early in the last few years. A good team that's hot in my opinion has the same chance to win a Cup as a better team that's cold. Streaks like these just are as important as anything else. Had the Rangers won a game and gone 2-2 except lost and gone 3-2 (which could have easily happened), it might have been a different series altogether.

And by the way, you're on the RANGERS BOARD. Stop ridiculing posters with your stupid sarcasm.

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