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Jagr Most Likely Not Coming Back- Larry Brooks

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Old
06-28-2008, 10:38 AM
  #26
free0717
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
You do understand why they Rangers don't want to go past one year, don't you? They want to be able to have the flexibility to add other players. Sign Jagr to more than one year, then you can't give him a bunus-laden contract, and roll those bonuses into next year. You lose close to $3 million in cap space. It has nothing to do with "being the captain" and everything to do with the high-wire act that is putting together a roster in the salary cap era.

Not only arent the dollars there to sign other players what happens to the rangers if the wheels fall off the bus?

Unless he is injured you wont be able to waive Jagr in the 2nd year.

2005-06 123 pts, 2006-07 96 pts, 2007-08 76 pts. How many points will he get next year? I know that Jags was in position to bury a bunch of pucks this year that would have been in the net in 05-06 that somehow got saved. For some reason he was able to pick his game up in the Playoffs however he only scored 5 goals. Jags wasnt RJ Umberger.

I would rather let him go, go with the Youths and suffer for a few years than sign Jags to a mult year contract. I know othe posters will say you cant rebuild with Gomez, Drury and Lundquist in your line up. But maybe its time to see what these Hartford guys can do at this level.

The 2009 FA Crop is alot better than this years crop. I wouldnt mind Hossa but not at the years and $ he is going to get.

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06-28-2008, 10:38 AM
  #27
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For all the Jagr haters, just remember how our offense when Jagr was injured in the first game against new jersey back on 05..

In the Eastern Conference Quarterfinals the Rangers drew a matchup with the Devils and were defeated in a four-game sweep. In the process they were outscored 17–4, as New Jersey netminder Martin Brodeur took two shutouts and a 1.00 goals-against average to Lundqvist's 4.25. In the first game of the series Jagr suffered an undisclosed injury to his left shoulder, diminishing his usefulness as the series went on. Jagr missed game two of the series and was back in the lineup for game three. He was held to one shot on goal. On his first shift of game four, Jagr re-injured his shoulder and was unable to return.

Also, take a look at the Rangers record since 96. They were averaging around 28 wins a season compared to 40+ a season with jagr.

I honestly dont care if the rangers dont sign him as LONG as he stays in the NHL. Hopefully an east coast team that can play the rangers alot so he can destroy the rangers.

Edit: Also, for those that are saying his production is trailing off, just look to the playoffs. If you are saying you wouldnt want the BEST player in the whole entire playoffs on your team, you need to get your head checked. Last time i checked it was all about the playoffs. The regular is just a really long and drawn out season to see who gets to compete for the real prize.

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06-28-2008, 10:46 AM
  #28
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Larry Brooks has no clue. All speculation . July 1st is just around the corner

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06-28-2008, 10:53 AM
  #29
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While I think a 2 year deal is apporiate, I think Jagr will re-sign for the one year deal, he is comortable here.

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06-28-2008, 10:59 AM
  #30
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I agree he will resign.........someone is going to break and it's either Sather going 2 yrs or Jagr staying to 1

I see why Sather only wants 1 yr................it makes sense for the team goals

BUT if Jagr goes elsewhere and Sundin goes to Montreal.......eeeeeeeeeek

Their are no other top FA's out there that besides Hossa

On the other hand if they can recruit Rolston and Malone and on the back end Orpik and Campbell then we may all be happy

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06-28-2008, 11:00 AM
  #31
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Larry Brooks at it again, a little earlier than expected but not surprising in anyway. This guy just loves to write stuff that drives everyone crazy.

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06-28-2008, 11:01 AM
  #32
Vitto79
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For the record if Jagr had a so so playoff we would all be like let him go

BUT he had a GREAT one so we all want to see him back....................rather funny

I agree with one yr or take care Jags

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06-28-2008, 11:08 AM
  #33
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I know Jagr did pretty crappy during the regular season but anyone watching the guy could tell you he wasn't trying hard. When the Playoffs game, he was a diffrent beast, he wanted to win...I say sign the guy for one year and throw a bunch of conditional bonuses to make him want to play. He is a great foward and Played extremely well in the playoffs. I say we give him a chance.

quick edit: Hopefully we get Jagr for one year but if we don't I say we go out and sign Hossa, Roloston or some group of fowards. Signing Campbell would be nice but we have a GREAT young core of defensive players I would like get a chance to play in the NHL instead of rot in the AHL. In three years, I really think our team is going to be beastly...

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06-28-2008, 11:17 AM
  #34
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Jagr will have to come to realize that while he will find other teams that want him, he will have difficulty finding a situation where the team caters to him like they did here. I don't know how other coaches would deal with handling Jaromir.

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06-28-2008, 11:20 AM
  #35
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Long transcript of a Jagr interview. He's still unsure of what he wants to do and the offer that Brooks speaks of is false.

Quote:
Q: The New York Post claims you were offered three years and thirty-five million [by Omsk]. Is this true?

"Crowns? I did not read this. Nor did I say anything about it to anyone. There's no truth to this at all."
Quote:
Q: Considering the three possibilities - remaining in New York, playing for a different NHL club or moving to Omsk Avangard - which is the most likely?

"I don't know. I really don't. One day it looks like I'll play in Europe. The next day I'll play in America. My father would be happiest if I remained to play in Kladno. Personally, I'd prefer to spend two more seasons abroad."

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06-28-2008, 11:32 AM
  #36
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I think if we don't offer him the contract he wants, he'll go to Montreal. They seem to be building a team thats tailored for his style of play.

Kovalev - Tanguay/Koivu - Jagr

Yikes..

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06-28-2008, 11:42 AM
  #37
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I think he'd go back to the 'Burgh before Montreal.

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06-28-2008, 11:45 AM
  #38
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Like I mentioned in the other thread, I think he would go back to Pittsburgh. Pens are gonna lose Hossa probably and maybe take a shot at a Jagr-Naslund type of line. From his standpoint, I think Jagr wants to win another Cup badly, and doing it back in Pitt would be like coming full circle. He still has a house there. I think he felt like he isnt appreciated by the Pitt fans like he is supposed to after all he did for them. He is still good friends with Mario. He likes to talk about not being wanted, well it would be his way of sticking it to the Rangers. Not to mention that retiring there would probably get them to raise his banner. What do you think?

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06-28-2008, 11:55 AM
  #39
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Amen and hallelujah !

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Old
06-28-2008, 11:58 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
You don't know what you're talking about

Jagr may not be as "good" as he was 2 years ago and whatnot, but he was the best player in the playoffs before the team exited. He was averaging 1.5 ppg!

As for Hossa, I don't consider him on the same level as Jagr, even when Jagr is not at his best he is still far more dominant imo. Even with his great numbers, I still consider Hossa somewhat of a complimentary player rather than an elite talent. He played with Crosby and Malkin during the playoffs, Jagr played with a rookie as his center and still outscored him. End of story

Secondly, stop exaggerating everything. That second round could have gotten either way had we gotten a little luckier. The officials clearly favored the Pens, we had two big injuries in Drury and Avery, and still most of the games were decided by a goal. It wasn't as one sided as you seem to insist. Yes the better team won, but just one goal could have turned that series around.

Also, the "your team is either a cup contender or not" is simple BS. We've seen tons of "Cup Contender" teams exit early in the last few years. A good team that's hot in my opinion has the same chance to win a Cup as a better team that's cold. Streaks like these just are as important as anything else. Had the Rangers won a game and gone 2-2 except lost and gone 3-2 (which could have easily happened), it might have been a different series altogether.

And by the way, you're on the RANGERS BOARD. Stop ridiculing posters with your stupid sarcasm.
Don't forget we also lost Betts, one of our top faceoff and PK guys. And this is another thing I don't understand around here: People say that Montreal is a contender and we're not. Maybe after this offseason we won't be but I still think we're closer than Philly and Montreal are. We dominated the Habs during the regular season. They got pounded by Philly who, not surprisingly, we also faired well against. If anyone watched Philly's games against the Pens, ours were much closer than theirs were.

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06-28-2008, 12:03 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by NYRfan11 View Post
Like I mentioned in the other thread, I think he would go back to Pittsburgh. Pens are gonna lose Hossa probably and maybe take a shot at a Jagr-Naslund type of line. From his standpoint, I think Jagr wants to win another Cup badly, and doing it back in Pitt would be like coming full circle. He still has a house there. I think he felt like he isnt appreciated by the Pitt fans like he is supposed to after all he did for them. He is still good friends with Mario. He likes to talk about not being wanted, well it would be his way of sticking it to the Rangers. Not to mention that retiring there would probably get them to raise his banner. What do you think?
I don't think so. He doesn't want to go to a team where he's not 1) the leader, 2) the highest paid player, 3) where the offense isn't run through him. He said all this in the press conference yesterday, was very candid about it.

The Pens wouldn't be able to give him that, he'd just be an aging start playing on a team with two young superstars, one of whom he doesn't like too much, btw. Also, I don't see Jagr existing on team of which Therrien is the coach. I don't see those two coexisting, and I don't see Therrien handling Jagr well at all.

In theory and on paper, it's scary, but in reality, it just wouldn't work.

Montreal is my guess as well, he's exactly the type of player they're trying to acquire, and it'd be a perfect fit. Also, don't forget he said in an interview this past season that he always wondered what it would be like to play in Canada, specifically in Montreal.

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06-28-2008, 12:05 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Don't forget we also lost Betts, one of our top faceoff and PK guys. And this is another thing I don't understand around here: People say that Montreal is a contender and we're not. Maybe after this offseason we won't be but I still think we're closer than Philly and Montreal are. We dominated the Habs during the regular season. They got pounded by Philly who, not surprisingly, we also faired well against. If anyone watched Philly's games against the Pens, ours were much closer than theirs were.
I think the Rangers were the 2nd best team in the Conference behind the Pens.

It's important to remember how division-heavy the schedule was this past year, and Montreal played A LOT of games against the collapsing Sens & Sabres, the embarrassment Leafs, and the Boston team that the Habs completely dominated.

Had the Habs played in the Atlantic, I highly doubt they would've been on top of the conference at the end of the regular season.

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Old
06-28-2008, 12:30 PM
  #43
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How do you know? No one knows how someone like Rolston or Ryder or another winger might mesh with Gomez.
Please never mention Ryder again.

TERRIBLE choice for this team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
You do understand why they Rangers don't want to go past one year, don't you? They want to be able to have the flexibility to add other players. Sign Jagr to more than one year, then you can't give him a bunus-laden contract, and roll those bonuses into next year. You lose close to $3 million in cap space. It has nothing to do with "being the captain" and everything to do with the high-wire act that is putting together a roster in the salary cap era.
These are Jagr homers, these guys would have him here scoring 10 points playing on our 4th line at 50 years old, and try to find a way to make it out like he was doing something worthwhile.

While they have one or two legitimate reasons as to why Jagr should be resigned, I can think of double, if not more, as to why we should move on.

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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
You don't know what you're talking about

Jagr may not be as "good" as he was 2 years ago and whatnot, but he was the best player in the playoffs before the team exited. He was averaging 1.5 ppg!
And he was averaging less than .5 ppg into January.

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As for Hossa, I don't consider him on the same level as Jagr, even when Jagr is not at his best he is still far more dominant imo. Even with his great numbers, I still consider Hossa somewhat of a complimentary player rather than an elite talent. He played with Crosby and Malkin during the playoffs, Jagr played with a rookie as his center and still outscored him. End of story
Maybe Hossa isn't on the same level as the Jagr of 1993-2006, but Hossa's had the edge from 07-today. Hossa before he left Atlanta was outscoring Jagr by a considerable margin, and was playing with far less talent than Jagr.

Hossa didn't play on a line with Malkin. He played with Crosby and Dupuis, that was their top line ever since he was traded there.

Quote:
Secondly, stop exaggerating everything. That second round could have gotten either way had we gotten a little luckier. The officials clearly favored the Pens, we had two big injuries in Drury and Avery, and still most of the games were decided by a goal. It wasn't as one sided as you seem to insist. Yes the better team won, but just one goal could have turned that series around.
Could they have won? Maybe if they didn't blow that 3-goal lead in game 1, but we were clearly outplayed. I agree that the calls were ****, but we were still outplayed. Hossa definitely got the best of Jagr in that series, as he was the player that put the knife in the Rangers. Not Crosby, who we shutdown. You want to make an argument for Malkin? Fine, but there wasn't a player aside from Malkin who was scoring with the consistency that Hossa was against the Rangers in that series.

Quote:
Also, the "your team is either a cup contender or not" is simple BS. We've seen tons of "Cup Contender" teams exit early in the last few years. A good team that's hot in my opinion has the same chance to win a Cup as a better team that's cold. Streaks like these just are as important as anything else. Had the Rangers won a game and gone 2-2 except lost and gone 3-2 (which could have easily happened), it might have been a different series altogether.
This argument wreaks of the fact that you think cinderella's win it almost every year.
A better team is going to win, a majority of the time. Pittsburgh was better defensively. They won. Detroit had the best defense in the NHL, they won. This team is NOT a cup contender, and won't be until they retool their defense.

Not only that, but how are we going to be a cup contender when Jagr has to save it for the playoffs? You think this year was bad, where he went on a 31-game powerplay goal drought, and went on two others that spanned more than 10 games, you think it's going to get any better from here on out? Hello, anyone out there? The guy is aging. Maybe if the season was 40 games plus playoffs, but not an 82 game schedule. Something tells me from the way he played this year that he just can't go all out for 82 games and have anything left for the playoffs.

If I'm wrong, then he needs to get in better condition if he's any bit serious about coming back.

Quote:
And by the way, you're on the RANGERS BOARD. Stop ridiculing posters with your stupid sarcasm.
I made the same mistake, dedalus is actually a Ranger fan. He's more of the realist kind, however.

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Originally Posted by jagrgodr View Post
For all the Jagr haters, just remember how our offense when Jagr was injured in the first game against new jersey back on 05..

In the Eastern Conference Quarterfinals the Rangers drew a matchup with the Devils and were defeated in a four-game sweep. In the process they were outscored 174, as New Jersey netminder Martin Brodeur took two shutouts and a 1.00 goals-against average to Lundqvist's 4.25. In the first game of the series Jagr suffered an undisclosed injury to his left shoulder, diminishing his usefulness as the series went on. Jagr missed game two of the series and was back in the lineup for game three. He was held to one shot on goal. On his first shift of game four, Jagr re-injured his shoulder and was unable to return.

Also, take a look at the Rangers record since 96. They were averaging around 28 wins a season compared to 40+ a season with jagr.
What does ANY of that have to do with the Jaromir Jagr of now? This is the same sentimental ******** I've heard over and over again as to why we should sign him. This does NOTHING for us now. This is the 2008 offseason, not the 2006 offseason.

Quote:
I honestly dont care if the rangers dont sign him as LONG as he stays in the NHL. Hopefully an east coast team that can play the rangers alot so he can destroy the rangers.
At Jagr's rate, he'll be virtually ineffective until the last month of the season, so he'll have to hope that team makes the playoffs so he can do damage against the Rangers.

Quote:
Edit: Also, for those that are saying his production is trailing off, just look to the playoffs. If you are saying you wouldnt want the BEST player in the whole entire playoffs on your team, you need to get your head checked. Last time i checked it was all about the playoffs. The regular is just a really long and drawn out season to see who gets to compete for the real prize.
The last time I checked, Ovechkin's mantle says otherwise, sporting this year's Ross, Richard, Hart, and Pearson trophies. When was the last time a player made the clean sweep?

YOU NEED TO GET YOUR HEAD CHECKED if you'd take Jagr over Ovechkin at this point.

Also, the last time I checked, Ovechkin took a team that spent 41 days in last place in the NHL and brought them all the way up to the 3rd seed. Sure, the Southeast is the worst division in all of hockey, but it's still an amazing feat to go from last place to division winner.

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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
I think he'd go back to the 'Burgh before Montreal.
After the falling out he had there with management after Lemieux came back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
Don't forget we also lost Betts, one of our top faceoff and PK guys. And this is another thing I don't understand around here: People say that Montreal is a contender and we're not. Maybe after this offseason we won't be but I still think we're closer than Philly and Montreal are. We dominated the Habs during the regular season. They got pounded by Philly who, not surprisingly, we also faired well against. If anyone watched Philly's games against the Pens, ours were much closer than theirs were.
Montreal is the worst and probably most overrated #1 seed I've seen in quite some time. They were just a powerplay. They couldn't score at even-strength, and Boston - unarguably the worst team in the entire playoffs this year - almost beat them.

You're right that we're a lot closer than Philly or Montreal. Montreal could be real dangerous in the years to come with Carey Price, but that will take time. Philly has a decent, but not great starting goaltender that was playing over his head against Montreal. He'll come back down to earth, as will the Flyers.

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06-28-2008, 12:56 PM
  #44
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Losing Jagr would guarantee that there is no Stanely Cup... With Jagr, there is definitely a chance. THey've proven that over the last couple years. They were excellent in the loss to Buffalo and they were even good last year. Just ran into an excellent team on both occasions.

Stop with the building the team around Jagr crap... THat goes for every single big time player in every single sport. For people to suggest that it is specific to just Jagr, that is nuts.

If you keep Jagr, you have to get guys that will best utilize his talents. Nylander wasn't even a great player, but he worked perfectly with Jagr and that was the reason that the guy was here.

They also have to get good players that work with Gomez and Drury. Gomez just needs a guy who can release a quick shot and that also has some speed so he can keep with Gomez on the rush.

Drury just needs someone like Straka imo... A fast, hardworking guy who can create a little bit. Straka should have been on Drury's wing more last year.


Jagr has to come back or we can forget about any cup this year or next. And for people suggesting Hossa over Jagr, no way... If you found a way to not like Jagr, then you will find a way to despise Hossa. Hossa can disappear in the biggest games (although he had a couple good ones last year) while Jagr always gets better when things are on the line.

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06-28-2008, 12:59 PM
  #45
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And he was averaging less than .5 ppg into January.
No idea why you would reply with the above... Thirdeye was merely saying that he was clearly the team's best player when it was the most critical time.


And the Jagr homer garbage is just that... I support Jagr but would quickly be off of him the instant that it is clear he is no longer a productive player. Just like Shanny. He was a waste at times last year.

Jagr was stuck playing much of the early part of the season with players like Hossa and an early Dubinsky. 3rd and 4th liners at best at the time. Still Jagr managed some offense.

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06-28-2008, 12:59 PM
  #46
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Amen and hallelujah !
Tavares here we come !!!

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06-28-2008, 01:12 PM
  #47
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Tavares here we come !!!

Piffle. You know the Rangers will win just enough to keep themselves out of the top 5.

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06-28-2008, 01:13 PM
  #48
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Please never mention Ryder again.

TERRIBLE choice for this team.
How?

He never scored less then 25 goals before this year. Back to back 30 goal seasons after a 25 goal rookie season.

So, he had a bad year, and a lot of players do.

He will also be much less expensive then pretty much every other forward on the market.

He needs a clean slate with a new team and a play making center.



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Maybe Hossa isn't on the same level as the Jagr of 1993-2006, but Hossa's had the edge from 07-today. Hossa before he left Atlanta was outscoring Jagr by a considerable margin, and was playing with far less talent than Jagr.
Kovalchuk.

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06-28-2008, 01:27 PM
  #49
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Kovalchuk.
Funny you should mention him.

Wait and see, because that is who Slats is waiting for, IMO.
Kovalchuk isn't going to want to stay with Atlanta. Aside from Bogosian, they have virtually nothing going for them and they continue to fail to provide him with a center to play with.

Kovalchuk is a free agent after the 09-10 season. That's why this team continues to develop their youth until then and surround them with some short-term deals to veterans like Jagr or even Sundin, that expire by the time the 2010 off-season rolls around, they'll have a team with some experienced young players, depth, a great goaltender and the cap room to sign a bonafide superstar.

Hossa is not the franchise player that Kovalchuk is. Hossa is a great, great complimentary player, but he isn't the guy you build a team around.

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06-28-2008, 01:44 PM
  #50
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
Losing Jagr would guarantee that there is no Stanely Cup... With Jagr, there is definitely a chance. THey've proven that over the last couple years. They were excellent in the loss to Buffalo and they were even good last year. Just ran into an excellent team on both occasions.
Who says there isn't a chance if they get Hossa to replace Jagr? I think if anything, the chances are better at that point, because Hossa can play a full 82 game season at 110% and still have it for the playoffs.

Quote:
Stop with the building the team around Jagr crap... THat goes for every single big time player in every single sport. For people to suggest that it is specific to just Jagr, that is nuts.
You're correct, but the problem is that Jagr will be 36 years old, you don't build a team around a 36 year old player that's seen his production drop 50 points in 2 seasons and is on the hinge of retirement. Especially a 36 year old with lucrative contract demands.

Quote:
They also have to get good players that work with Gomez and Drury. Gomez just needs a guy who can release a quick shot and that also has some speed so he can keep with Gomez on the rush.
And that's the reason why a lot of people don't want Jagr back, because he himself wants to hear the words... "this is your team." That signifies that they're building around him, and not Gomez and Drury, which is something we will eventually HAVE TO DO. So why delay the inevitable, and hamper the development of the team as a whole for the benefit of one declining player? Who cares if it's Jagr, I care about the New York Rangers, not Jaromir Jagr.

Name on the front before the name on the back.

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Jagr has to come back or we can forget about any cup this year or next. And for people suggesting Hossa over Jagr, no way... If you found a way to not like Jagr, then you will find a way to despise Hossa. Hossa can disappear in the biggest games (although he had a couple good ones last year) while Jagr always gets better when things are on the line.
Hossa's playoff track record isn't that bad. I think a lot of us remember the first round in 07 a little too vividly, and hang that over his head. He was still the top goal and point scorer for Atlanta, although that isn't saying much.

However, this year, he was the best player for the Penguins hands down, from the Rangers series and on. The Rangers, Flyers, and Wings got to Crosby. Malkin dissapeared after the Rangers series.

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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
No idea why you would reply with the above... Thirdeye was merely saying that he was clearly the team's best player when it was the most critical time.
What I was saying is that he has to save it for the playoffs. What will the playoffs matter if we can't make it because we're depending on a 36 year old who has to save every last ounce for them?

I can't believe some of you people can't see this.

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And the Jagr homer garbage is just that... I support Jagr but would quickly be off of him the instant that it is clear he is no longer a productive player. Just like Shanny. He was a waste at times last year.
Really? It's just garbage? Then why are people advocating a 2 year 12 million dollar contract for a guy who had less than 20 goals and 60 points entering March? If it wasn't for his last month of the season and his playoffs, you guys would want him in Siberia. The guy can't play a full season at 100%, nevermind 110% and still have something left for the playoffs, and if he can, well... he needs to be in a lot better shape to prove that point.

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Jagr was stuck playing much of the early part of the season with players like Hossa and an early Dubinsky. 3rd and 4th liners at best at the time. Still Jagr managed some offense.
Him and Dubinsky didn't play together regularly until after the all-star break, in which Dubinsky found his confidence by winning MVP at the young-stars game. As much as Jagr helped Dubinsky, the new-found confidence and youth of Dubinsky infused Jagr with new life.

Hossa was out of the lineup for most of the season.

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Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
How?
1. He's either searing hot or freezing cold.
2. He plays no defense.
3. He's soft.
4. He's not even a good complimentary player, nevermind a player that generates offense on his own.
5. Doesn't the fact that he spent of ton of time in the doghouse this year set off a red flag in your mind?

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He will also be much less expensive then pretty much every other forward on the market.
So that's a good enough reason for you to sign a player that could be a possible detriment to the team?

You complain about one-dimensional players, and then you want sign Ryder? The biggest one-dimensional player of them all, who is nothing but a goal scorer? You're not serious, right?

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Kovalchuk.
First of all, Kovalchuk is ONE player, not an entire team. Second, they don't play on the same line, and never have. Who else are you going to mention? Slava Kozlov? He's as complimentary of a player as they come. Steve Rucchin? The guy whose best years were about 10 years ago in Anaheim centering Paul Kariya and Teemu Selanne? Bobby Holik? An overpaid checking center whose game is on the decline as well?

Please, cut the crap. Kovalchuk isn't half the two-way player that Hossa is. Hossa may not score 50 goals, but he'll score 30-40 and 90-100 points while providing decent defensive play, and is a decent penalty killer as well.

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