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Jagr Most Likely Not Coming Back- Larry Brooks

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Old
06-28-2008, 03:07 PM
  #51
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let the hossa rumors start pouring in....

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06-28-2008, 04:13 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
How?

He never scored less then 25 goals before this year. Back to back 30 goal seasons after a 25 goal rookie season.

So, he had a bad year, and a lot of players do.
I find it rather comical that everyone can recognize that players can have a bad year and could potentially pickup their production again, yet with regard to Jagr, he's washed up and undoubtedly be even worse next year.

Can't have it both ways, guys.

(Pukku, not referring to you, just making the observation in general)


Last edited by Turambar: 06-28-2008 at 04:19 PM.
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06-28-2008, 04:28 PM
  #53
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Let him go. It is time to stop building a team around Jagr. It is time to build a team without Jagr and built around Gomez, Drury Lundqvist, Dubi, Staal, Girardi, etc. I am not saying the Rangers will be taking an immediate step forward, but i do think that it will benefit the organization in the long run.

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06-28-2008, 04:40 PM
  #54
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I didn't feel like reading 3 pages of everyone arguing over whether Jagr should stay or not, but even though this team won't be at the point of contending for a Cup for at least a few more years, it still makes sense to keep him. Though are some nice top-6 forwards available on FA, none of them save for Hossa or Sundin seems like the kind've guy that can keep the other team's defense focused on them, thus opening room for the other guys and the team's young talent.

Of Jagr, Hossa, and Sundin, at least Jagr has shown chemistry with Dubinsky, and while this year might have shown he is no longer in the league of the elite players, he'll still a legit first-line guy. I don't get how keeping him for a year or two is building the team around, considering it seems the only player he has recently depended upon for success is Dubinsky.

Plus Jagr makes it easier to get into the playoffs, and even if the team isn't winning the Cup, it gets our young guys some experience in the playoffs, which should come in handy a few more years down the line should this team be ready to be a legit threat for the Cup. Well, my two cents.

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06-28-2008, 04:48 PM
  #55
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i would rather build up the defense and build the offense around drury and gomez rather than jagr

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06-28-2008, 05:00 PM
  #56
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This team has no offense behind Jagr. None. Especially without Shannahan and Straka. Ryan Malone is the most overrated winger on the planet, he should have scored at least 40 goals on Crosby's wing and did not. They had to get Hossa for him. Who by the way is a nice player, but not a franchise player to overpay for and screw the cap. The offensive future of the Rangers is in Cherepanov stick and as yet undeveloped offensive talent to go with Scott Gomez, and unfortunately none of those guys are here yet. In the meantime we need Jagr to hold the fort. Now if you want to tank the season to get Tavares or Hedman then I wouldn't be against that at all. And I wouldn't resign Jagr in that case.

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06-28-2008, 05:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Majoritystorm View Post
This team has no offense behind Jagr. None. Especially without Shannahan and Straka. Ryan Malone is the most overrated winger on the planet, he should have scored at least 40 goals on Crosby's wing and did not. They had to get Hossa for him. Who by the way is a nice player, but not a franchise player to overpay for and screw the cap. The offensive future of the Rangers is in Cherepanov stick and as yet undeveloped offensive talent to go with Scott Gomez, and unfortunately none of those guys are here yet. In the meantime we need Jagr to hold the fort. Now if you want to tank the season to get Tavares or Hedman then I wouldn't be against that at all. And I wouldn't resign Jagr in that case.
The problem is, even with no offense, this seem is not bad enough to be in the bottom-5. You'd need a bad case of injuries for that to happen. It's just a much better plan to keep Jagr, and sign some of the less mentioned players (like maybe Vrbata and Nagy on forward, Streit on defense, maybe re-sign Rozsival, but I'm just throwing out names) and make the playoffs, even if its another first or second round exit. Hell, the team might even surprise like the Flyers did.

Having Jagr keeps the other team's defense busy, allowing guys like Dawes and Cherepanov to develop. First we're gonna already have to wait one year for Cherepanov, and there's no gurantee he's going to be a high impact forward in his rookie season. Having Jagr around a little longer eases the transition.

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06-28-2008, 06:11 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Unk View Post
The problem is, even with no offense, this seem is not bad enough to be in the bottom-5. You'd need a bad case of injuries for that to happen. It's just a much better plan to keep Jagr, and sign some of the less mentioned players (like maybe Vrbata and Nagy on forward, Streit on defense, maybe re-sign Rozsival, but I'm just throwing out names) and make the playoffs, even if its another first or second round exit. Hell, the team might even surprise like the Flyers did.

Having Jagr keeps the other team's defense busy, allowing guys like Dawes and Cherepanov to develop. First we're gonna already have to wait one year for Cherepanov, and there's no gurantee he's going to be a high impact forward in his rookie season. Having Jagr around a little longer eases the transition.
Bingo. That part of me is saying that Jagr should be around for the 2 years that he is asking for to act as a mentor for Cherepanov when/if he comes over to the NHL. Throwing Cherepanov into the mix and expecting him to be the team's primary offensive threat would be catastrophic for his development. Not having someone like Jagr around to show him the ropes will only work if Cherepanov makes a Malkin-like impact as a rookie.

Then again, there is the part of me that wants Jagr gone so the team can go in another direction. Handing the team over to Gomez and Drury this season is what I believe is best for the long term. A very fast, traditional North-South game that is deadly on the transition is what wins cups in today's NHL. Combine this with a suffocating defensive game, and we have a team that can contend for a cup. As far as I'm concerned, the sooner the team goes away from the European East-West hockey, the better. The only thing that I can do as a fan of this team is to have patience, and let the pieces of the puzzle fall into place. In recent years, Clark and Slats have drafted players that I think will fit very well into the team direction and philosophy with Gomez and Drury leading the offensive charge. Even if it means a couple of years of no playoffs, the Rangers will get some great players in the upcoming drafts if they aren't stupid and trade the picks. Just be patient everybody, in the New York Rangers I Trust

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06-28-2008, 07:04 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
I find it rather comical that everyone can recognize that players can have a bad year and could potentially pickup their production again, yet with regard to Jagr, he's washed up and undoubtedly be even worse next year.

Can't have it both ways, guys.

(Pukku, not referring to you, just making the observation in general)
It certainly is possible for Jagr to be productive. I felt he was pretty productive this year. In a down year he scored 25 goals.

The thing is, do we want to continue the mantra of building around Jagr? He is 36 years old at the start of the season and turns 37 in Feb.

I think it is time to hand over the torch.

If he can play with who we have, then fine. But we can not afford to go into the market and make ridiculous signings or trades so that Jagr can have players he meshes with. If he can't cope, then we gotta let him walk.

Sundin would be a huge waste of money, and time. Not to mention it doesn't make any sense. We have less then no need for another center.

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06-28-2008, 07:06 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomez to Jagr View Post
Bingo. That part of me is saying that Jagr should be around for the 2 years that he is asking for to act as a mentor for Cherepanov when/if he comes over to the NHL. Throwing Cherepanov into the mix and expecting him to be the team's primary offensive threat would be catastrophic for his development. Not having someone like Jagr around to show him the ropes will only work if Cherepanov makes a Malkin-like impact as a rookie.

Then again, there is the part of me that wants Jagr gone so the team can go in another direction. Handing the team over to Gomez and Drury this season is what I believe is best for the long term. A very fast, traditional North-South game that is deadly on the transition is what wins cups in today's NHL. Combine this with a suffocating defensive game, and we have a team that can contend for a cup. As far as I'm concerned, the sooner the team goes away from the European East-West hockey, the better. The only thing that I can do as a fan of this team is to have patience, and let the pieces of the puzzle fall into place. In recent years, Clark and Slats have drafted players that I think will fit very well into the team direction and philosophy with Gomez and Drury leading the offensive charge. Even if it means a couple of years of no playoffs, the Rangers will get some great players in the upcoming drafts if they aren't stupid and trade the picks. Just be patient everybody, in the New York Rangers I Trust
It sounds like you want to see the Devils play in Ranger blue to me. Drury and Gomez are going to lead our offensive charge? Oh my, well maybe a hi pick wont be so bad.

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06-28-2008, 07:12 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
I find it rather comical that everyone can recognize that players can have a bad year and could potentially pickup their production again, yet with regard to Jagr, he's washed up and undoubtedly be even worse next year.

Can't have it both ways, guys.

(Pukku, not referring to you, just making the observation in general)
I find it rather comical that people insist on bringing back a guy like Jagr who has declined in production an average of 26 points per year over the last two seasons.

Everyone has an excuse for why his production dropped, or why he should be given the benefit of the doubt. Whether it be bringing in Sundin, or 'We'll never make the playoffs without him!'

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06-28-2008, 07:12 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
It sounds like you want to see the Devils play in Ranger blue to me. Drury and Gomez are going to lead our offensive charge? Oh my, well maybe a hi pick wont be so bad.
Last time the Devils missed the playoffs and had a high pick?
As much as everyone here bags the Devils, having a team that's all working off the same page of the playbook and working for each other isn't actually a bad thing

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06-28-2008, 07:20 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
It sounds like you want to see the Devils play in Ranger blue to me. Drury and Gomez are going to lead our offensive charge? Oh my, well maybe a hi pick wont be so bad.
With guys like Drury and Gomez as the main offensive threats, you almost have to play a very defensive game like the Devils if the team wants to stay competitive. I'm not saying that the acquisition of a few missing pieces would be a bad thing, but I don't support breaking the bank on mediocre free agents that don't fit into the team style of play in order to replace Jagr.

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06-28-2008, 07:25 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomez to Jagr View Post
With guys like Drury and Gomez as the main offensive threats, you almost have to play a very defensive game like the Devils if the team wants to stay competitive. I'm not saying that the acquisition of a few missing pieces would be a bad thing, but I don't support breaking the bank on mediocre free agents that don't fit into the team style of play in order to replace Jagr.
A defensive game? You have to have defensemen to do that and i'm sorry I don't see one guy on our blueline who I would call a solid NHL defenseman. Tyutin, Girardi, and Staal have the ability to be but I doubt all 3 arive this season. If we were stacked on the blueline I would understand this thinking. Right now we don't need help only up front you know.

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06-28-2008, 07:35 PM
  #65
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A defensive game? You have to have defensemen to do that and i'm sorry I don't see one guy on our blueline who I would call a solid NHL defenseman. Tyutin, Girardi, and Staal have the ability to be but I doubt all 3 arive this season. If we were stacked on the blueline I would understand this thinking. Right now we don't need help only up front you know.
Definitely. The Rangers need help pretty much everywhere but goalie. However, as I said previously, I don't support breaking the bank for a guy that may not fit in the system. Staal can be a great #1 defenseman one day, but he is not quite there yet. If you are looking at the Devils defense as a model, name one guy that can be a passable #1 d-man on any other team. I'm not knocking the Devils, but the answer is no one, unless you are very high on Paul Martin. You don't necessarily have to be stacked on the defensive corps to play a very good defensive game.

But I digress and I'm way off topic, we'll have to wait on Jagr's decision in the coming week before I can say anything else.

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06-28-2008, 07:42 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gomez to Jagr View Post
Definitely. The Rangers need help pretty much everywhere but goalie. However, as I said previously, I don't support breaking the bank for a guy that may not fit in the system. Staal can be a great #1 defenseman one day, but he is not quite there yet. If you are looking at the Devils defense as a model, name one guy that can be a passable #1 d-man on any other team. I'm not knocking the Devils, but the answer is no one, unless you are very high on Paul Martin. You don't necessarily have to be stacked on the defensive corps to play a very good defensive game.

But I digress and I'm way off topic, we'll have to wait on Jagr's decision in the coming week before I can say anything else.
It is very on topic. What exactly is this team going to do if JJ does bolt? Sign Sundin? If thats the plan I would rather just give into Jagr's demands of a two year contract. Nobody seems to think Hossa is the answer. You have to hope a trade is in the works here that will bring us atleast a top pairing dman, i'm worried with how things are going down with who we got at the helm.

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06-28-2008, 07:44 PM
  #67
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Just wait till July 1st....I would never listen to these garbage papers anyway.

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06-28-2008, 09:38 PM
  #68
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Losing Jagr, no matter what, would be a double-edged sword.

It all comes down to whether or not you believe last year was an off-year or if it was the continued decline of his game-changing abilities.

It comes down to whether or not you believe he can adjust to a team that is no longer focused on him or whether he still needs to at least feel like he is the man.

Losing Jagr is going to have an impact because we probably will not be able to replace his offense or at the very least the amount of attention he gets and subsequently free's up for his teammates.

I'm not sure the Rangers are cup contenders with or without Jagr next season. I still see a team that I think is a bit of a mystery with their ability to score goals.

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06-28-2008, 09:42 PM
  #69
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Losing Jagr, no matter what, would be a double-edged sword.

It all comes down to whether or not you believe last year was an off-year or if it was the continued decline of his game-changing abilities.

It comes down to whether or not you believe he can adjust to a team that is no longer focused on him or whether he still needs to at least feel like he is the man.

Losing Jagr is going to have an impact because we probably will not be able to replace his offense or at the very least the amount of attention he gets and subsequently free's up for his teammates.

I'm not sure the Rangers are cup contenders with or without Jagr next season. I still see a team that I think is a bit of a mystery with their ability to score goals.
Also add in the fact that losing Jagr means bringing in another player on the top 6, which means possible chemistry issues again and less scoring.

Losing Jagr is not a good thing.

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06-28-2008, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Losing Jagr, no matter what, would be a double-edged sword.

It all comes down to whether or not you believe last year was an off-year or if it was the continued decline of his game-changing abilities.

It comes down to whether or not you believe he can adjust to a team that is no longer focused on him or whether he still needs to at least feel like he is the man.

Losing Jagr is going to have an impact because we probably will not be able to replace his offense or at the very least the amount of attention he gets and subsequently free's up for his teammates.

I'm not sure the Rangers are cup contenders with or without Jagr next season. I still see a team that I think is a bit of a mystery with their ability to score goals.

Well judging from his interview on rodents site it seems he stil wants to go to a team where he IS THE MAN. He almost said as much. If Jagr does come back he will be captain and he will be the centerpiece of this team like it or not cause he's the best player. You build your team around your best player and that is the only reason why the Rangers have been so silent up to this point.

Also reading that interview it sounds like Slats really pissed him off by not trying to contact him leading up to this.

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06-28-2008, 10:47 PM
  #71
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I think the problem with making the team go from one style of play (East-West) to another (North-South) is that transition makes time. Yes, not re-signing Jagr would potentially speed it up, but a faster transition does not mean a better one. The team might not be a Cup contender next season, but that does not mean it should not be in some way competitive.

I hope whats really going is that Jagr and Sather are planning on some agreement after FA blows over for the other guys, so that the two can figure out some deal.

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06-28-2008, 10:51 PM
  #72
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Let him go. It is time to stop building a team around Jagr. It is time to build a team without Jagr and built around Gomez, Drury Lundqvist, Dubi, Staal, Girardi, etc. I am not saying the Rangers will be taking an immediate step forward, but i do think that it will benefit the organization in the long run.
+1000.

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06-28-2008, 11:00 PM
  #73
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Just out of curiousity, just who was on the team last season to 'support' Jagr? Maybe Straka, but Jagr spent a decent chunk of the season not playing with him at all, so it doesn't seem like he's needed for Jagr. Maybe Dubinsky, the guy he seemed to show real chemistry with. Wait, I thought Dubinsky was one of the guys this team might be built around one day regardless.

I just want to know, if Jagr were to be re-signed, who are those other players we don't that would also have to be signed?

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06-28-2008, 11:07 PM
  #74
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I honestly HATE Larry Brooks.


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06-29-2008, 01:24 AM
  #75
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Just my 2 cents but i think the rangers are better off investing cash in the defense and getting a few 4-5M dollar wingers. Gomez and Drury a great 1-2 punch, you just need to find guys to compliment them(and i don't think Jagr is a good compliment)
An opinion to say the least. Gomez and Drury, to me, are a so so punch. Both are just decent centers getting over paid to do what they do. Placing $4 - $5 million dollar wingers at their side isn't going to change this. If we keep the same team, without Jagr, don't count on a Playoff spot next year. In his years winding down he's still better than those two and in the Playoffs he showed why he is still one of the elite forwards in the NHL. I just don't see a Playoff year without him next year. A lot of fans are going to be disappointed. They'll be saying "We need to build around Gomez and Drury" all they want until the shocking realization that we didn't make the playoffs settles in... Just wait and see. Lundqvist can't carry this team in net with tons of outstanding performances because goalies can't get you into the Playoffs and the skaters we have now can't win a Cup nor make the Playoffs without the best player on the team. We barely scraped by with a few pts this year... imagine that without Jagr.

And I'm tired of this "being built" around Jagr junk. Straka, Roszival, Nylander, and Rucinsky at the time (whom both were traded mind you) do not constitute an entire 25 man roster. And if you include Nylander and Straka they were one of the best lines in the NHL when it was "built" around them. Saying it was built around Jagr is just a way to further criticize him.

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