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Jagr Quote - I don't like it

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06-29-2008, 04:10 PM
  #51
Son of Steinbrenner
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
are you telling me you thought jagr was playing hard all year?....

to me and many others he looked like he was sulking and holding back....

i read his quotes and he said he wanted to be THE GUY on the team.....
With all due respect I don't care what you and "others" thought about his play..When was he sulking? lets be specific here not just generalize...was he sulking when he would spend extra time with dubinsky and staal after practice? Jagr played hard but the chances didnt' go in...he also played with guys who didn't finish his chances...a teamwide problem...

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im sorry, he is 37, i would never build a team around a 37 y/o player who didnt put up a point per game last season
For one more year I don't see the problem...

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jagrs role as a decoy was bullcrap....there were second pairings that were holding him to nothing quite often.....gill, orpik......hamrlik.....he doesnt always go against the other teams best defensive units....during a game every line goes against them....thats the point of having depth on a team
He would almost always go up against the other teams top units...During a game coaches match there defenseman up against the other teams top players..they keyed on jagr everygame...if you want to use this board is a way to judge a players effort then also use it as away to evalute how teams played againts Jagr..put simply it's been discussed more then once on this board by posters other than myself...


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jagr had what?....72 points?....with more pp time and a better defense that can actually pass the puck to the forwards so they can build up speed and get odd man rushes you dont think say, a ryder and rolston(who would probably make as much or less than jagr) could put up more points then him?....i sure as hell do......dubinsky in his second year, dawes in his second year.....sign a pp qb and the pp improves without everyone always deferring to jagr.....i just feel like the team needs one identity....in the AHL the team is like that, they play a defensive style and are good at it.....time for the team to move on with the players they have and add a couple of pieces and they will be fine......
No Ryder and Rolston wouldn't put up more points than Jagr was that posted in jest?...Dubinsky and Dawes in there second year might improve but that's no guarantee..i agree with the need to sign a pp qb but i think that would help jagr....i think the whole one identy thing is a nice message board thing to write but the rangers have one identy with jagr in the lineup..the ahl isn't the nhl...

it might be time for the team to move on but jagrs quotes shouldn't dictate that...what he said shouldn't be the final straw..(which is what this thread turned into...besides the guy who couldn't stand new york..)


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06-29-2008, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
With all due respect I don't care what you and "others" thought about his play..When was he sulking? lets be specific here not just generalize...was he sulking when he would spend extra time with dubinsky and staal after practice? Jagr played hard but the chances didnt' go in...he also played with guys who didn't finish his chances...a teamwide problem...



For one more year I don't see the problem...



He would almost always go up against the other teams top units...


ja

No Ryder and Rolston wouldn't put up more points than Jagr...Dubinsky and Dawes in there second year might improve but that's no guarantee..i agree with the need to sign a pp qb but i think that would help jagr....i think the whole one identy thing is a nice message board thing to write but the rangers have one identy with jagr in the lineup..the ahl isn't the nhl...

it might be time for the team to move on but jagrs quotes shouldn't dictate that...what he said shouldn't be the final straw..(which is what this thread turned into...besides the guy who couldn't stand new york..)
so you are saying rolston, who consistently puts up 60 points for say 3.5-4 million and ryder who had a bad year last year and IMO probably could put up at least 20 goals plus 20 assists for 3 million.....thats 100 points for 7 million dollars....i would say they would outproduce jagr....

and in respect to having a pp qb like redden out there with jagr....there is no point....he is the ppqb and he isnt good at it because he holds onto the puck and always require the puck to come back to him.....no matter who it is, liles, campbell or redden....they wouldnt be on the unit with jagr...

i see a problem with signing jagr for a year.....it cuts into drury's and gomez's contracts another year and most likely the rangers would have to sign a winger for him who wouldnt fit on the rest of the team.....pass on that big time....

do i think jagr did good things with dubinsky...absolutely....however that doesnt mean he wasnt sulking....he was doing that to mold dubinsky into HIS center....like nylander was...someone who played his style and looked for him

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06-29-2008, 04:29 PM
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You guys are crazy. Anyone read the part where he says what he wants most is trust? That right there is saying something about how Slats has more than likely handled this. I swear he is a smug little *******. Anyhow a lot of these posts questioning Jagr's ability and other stuff seems like identical posts read when Jagr was first traded here from Washington. The guy is an amazing hockey player and should be the highest paid on the team. We got too spoiled with the Caps paying all that salary for us this whole time. No more discount on Jagr if we want him guys, thats the whole point I think, and that Slats is a moron.

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06-29-2008, 04:48 PM
  #54
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so you are saying rolston, who consistently puts up 60 points for say 3.5-4 million and ryder who had a bad year last year and IMO probably could put up at least 20 goals plus 20 assists for 3 million.....thats 100 points for 7 million dollars....i would say they would outproduce jagr....
So you wanna use the "averages" for Rolston and Ryder up against Jagrs one down year? gee I wonder why you would want to do that...IMO you don't put Rolston or Ryder in the same sentance as a top ten ALL TIME player like Jagr...I don't think signing those guys would have more of an influence than signing Jagr. I think getting tied up in contracts for those players vs a 1 year deal for Jagr is a bad idea..

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and in respect to having a pp qb like redden out there with jagr....there is no point....he is the ppqb and he isnt good at it because he holds onto the puck and always require the puck to come back to him.....no matter who it is, liles, campbell or redden....they wouldnt be on the unit with jagr...
Do teams play the same 5 guys a full 2 minutes? Why can't Jagr and this un-named unsigned pp qb (please not liles..top poti LITE) play on diffrent units? why can't the rangers have a two pronged approach to the power play? Didn't you think Pearn was the problem with power play? now it's Jagr...i guess if Renney fit your argument you'd say Renney too right?

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i see a problem with signing jagr for a year.....it cuts into drury's and gomez's contracts another year and most likely the rangers would have to sign a winger for him who wouldnt fit on the rest of the team.....pass on that big time....
The Rangers can sign Jagr and and still get a winger like Rolston (for example) to play with Gomez...They can also hope that Dawes and Callahan take another step next year...just like you are counting on to begin with..

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do i think jagr did good things with dubinsky...absolutely....however that doesnt mean he wasnt sulking....he was doing that to mold dubinsky into HIS center....like nylander was...someone who played his style and looked for him
Jagr didn't sulk last year...So wait a second...Jagr helping Dubinsky play more comfortable with him for the overall team success is what a bad thing? Also can we not try to play psycologist for guy you don't even know..Jagr could've easily complained last year and didn't...he could've easily flown back to prague after the season and didn't...here we have a guy basically begging to come back...a guy that helped transform the team from loserville to playoff team and we want to let him go because rolston/ryder can take his place? Please...i can't debate logic like that anymore...

we'll see where this jagr thing ends up..

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06-29-2008, 04:54 PM
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06-29-2008, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
So you wanna use the "averages" for Rolston and Ryder up against Jagrs one down year? gee I wonder why you would want to do that...IMO you don't put Rolston or Ryder in the same sentance as a top ten ALL TIME player like Jagr...I don't think signing those guys would have more of an influence than signing Jagr. I think getting tied up in contracts for those players vs a 1 year deal for Jagr is a bad idea..



Do teams play the same 5 guys a full 2 minutes? Why can't Jagr and this un-named unsigned pp qb (please not liles..top poti LITE) play on diffrent units? why can't the rangers have a two pronged approach to the power play? Didn't you think Pearn was the problem with power play? now it's Jagr...i guess if Renney fit your argument you'd say Renney too right?



The Rangers can sign Jagr and and still get a winger like Rolston (for example) to play with Gomez...They can also hope that Dawes and Callahan take another step next year...just like you are counting on to begin with..



Jagr didn't sulk last year...So wait a second...Jagr helping Dubinsky play more comfortable with him for the overall team success is what a bad thing? Also can we not try to play psycologist for guy you don't even know..Jagr could've easily complained last year and didn't...he could've easily flown back to prague after the season and didn't...here we have a guy basically begging to come back...a guy that helped transform the team from loserville to playoff team and we want to let him go because rolston/ryder can take his place? Please...i can't debate logic like that anymore...

we'll see where this jagr thing ends up..
first off,

i never said i didnt like what pearn was doing.....i said it might help if the rangers got a pp coach because other teams have done so and greatly improved in a short amount of time, so i will not comment on that as im sure you just forgot what i said which is understandable as it has been a couple of weeks

all i am saying, is why invest in one player, who teams supposedly key in on when you can spread out the attack making it harder to match lines?....like you said a two-prong attack can happen in even strength as well


i dont think you are totally understanding my argument......in ow way was i ever saying jagr isnt a good player, or hasnt done wonmder for the rangers as an organization...however, being realistic the defense needs a lot of help and gomez needs a wing.....say orpik and liles for say 7.5 million combined upgrade the defense(which is not what i want but is most likely the cheapest solution)...now you say we can sign jagr and rolston.....thats most likely another 11 million.....so you just soent 18 million dollars on 4 players....already having about 21.5 million in 3 other players........thats close to 40 million dollars on 7 players........that leaves you with 17 million dollars for the remainder of the team.....which would be most likely 16 other players.....i just dont think it works out.....signing jagr doesnt work if you want to upgrade other areas of concern...i would rather upgrade all the areas that need help evenly than put all that money into jagr up front...

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06-29-2008, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
first off,

i never said i didnt like what pearn was doing.....i said it might help if the rangers got a pp coach because other teams have done so and greatly improved in a short amount of time, so i will not comment on that as im sure you just forgot what i said which is understandable as it has been a couple of weeks

all i am saying, is why invest in one player, who teams supposedly key in on when you can spread out the attack making it harder to match lines?....like you said a two-prong attack can happen in even strength as well


i dont think you are totally understanding my argument......in ow way was i ever saying jagr isnt a good player, or hasnt done wonmder for the rangers as an organization...however, being realistic the defense needs a lot of help and gomez needs a wing.....say orpik and liles for say 7.5 million combined upgrade the defense(which is not what i want but is most likely the cheapest solution)...now you say we can sign jagr and rolston.....thats most likely another 11 million.....so you just soent 18 million dollars on 4 players....already having about 21.5 million in 3 other players........thats close to 40 million dollars on 7 players........that leaves you with 17 million dollars for the remainder of the team.....which would be most likely 16 other players.....i just dont think it works out.....signing jagr doesnt work if you want to upgrade other areas of concern...i would rather upgrade all the areas that need help evenly than put all that money into jagr up front...
The Rangers can always move/waive the contracts for Backman and Prucha (another $3.9M) which helps balance things out...Which would bring your numbers up to almost $20M on the other players..That's the salary cap world in todays NHL....

If you don't resign Jagr then the "upgrades" in the other areas don't matter...It's like signing Keene and Skrudlund without bringing Messier back..

If Jagr signs an incentive laden contract your "worst case" salary cap scenario is kinda moot.....

"attacking" teams with 3 borderline 2nd lines is not the way to win...The Rangers would be at the bottom of the East...

Your pp coach scenario involved Montreal 2 years ago..a power play i could've coached with a hot dog in my mouth and a soda in my hand..

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06-29-2008, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
are you telling me you thought jagr was playing hard all year?....

to me and many others he looked like he was sulking and holding back....

i read his quotes and he said he wanted to be THE GUY on the team.....

im sorry, he is 37, i would never build a team around a 37 y/o player who didnt put up a point per game last season

jagrs role as a decoy was bullcrap....there were second pairings that were holding him to nothing quite often.....gill, orpik......hamrlik.....he doesnt always go against the other teams best defensive units....during a game every line goes against them....thats the point of having depth on a team


jagr had what?....72 points?....with more pp time and a better defense that can actually pass the puck to the forwards so they can build up speed and get odd man rushes you dont think say, a ryder and rolston(who would probably make as much or less than jagr) could put up more points then him?....i sure as hell do......dubinsky in his second year, dawes in his second year.....sign a pp qb and the pp improves without everyone always deferring to jagr.....i just feel like the team needs one identity....in the AHL the team is like that, they play a defensive style and are good at it.....time for the team to move on with the players they have and add a couple of pieces and they will be fine......
hockeyviper, ive agreed with you the whole time.

It seems like some people are projecting a Jagr that played the last 3 weeks of the season and playoffs, and we have a more realistic view of what he would do over the course of another full year (or dare i say more).

Somehting no one has mentioned - Jagr HIMSELF made a point that he was in effect "saving it up" for the big run and postseason.

I dont want the leader of the team and go-to go (who everyone models their game around, especially the powerplay) "saving up" anything during the year. And if you do want to do that, dont tell the press you were. I was quite surprised he said that to the media so nonchalantly.

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06-29-2008, 05:13 PM
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hockeyviper, ive agreed with you the whole time.

It seems like some people are projecting a Jagr that played the last 3 weeks of the season and playoffs, and we have a more realistic view of what he would do over the course of another full year (or dare i say more).

Somehting no one has mentioned - Jagr HIMSELF made a point that he was in effect "saving it up" for the big run and postseason.

I dont want the leader of the team and go-to go (who everyone models their game around, especially the powerplay) "saving up" anything during the year. And if you do want to do that, dont tell the press you were. I was quite surprised he said that to the media so nonchalantly.
If Jagr played a full season with 2nd half Dubinksy and didn't play his 1st 2 games with Hossa what would he have done?

Jagrs saving it for the playoffs also had a lot to do with how his body changed since he got in the league and the amount of rest he needed...i think only a simpleton would think that jagr was holding back goals during the season...like "gee i could score now but i better save it for march" i mean is that what you really think went on?

Everybody models there game around Jagr? who exactly?

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06-29-2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
If Jagr played a full season with 2nd half Dubinksy and didn't play his 1st 2 games with Hossa what would he have done?

Jagrs saving it for the playoffs also had a lot to do with how his body changed since he got in the league and the amount of rest he needed...i think only a simpleton would think that jagr was holding back goals during the season...like "gee i could score now but i better save it for march" i mean is that what you really think went on?

Everybody models there game around Jagr? who exactly?
Too many if's in that first sentence. Bottom line is he didnt.

Well why would you want to pay someone 6+ million and be the captain if needed so much rest and coddling? Its not about the amount of rest he needed because his body has changed - hes getting OLD.
Do you honestly want a 38 or 39 year old Jagr in 2010 and 2011 then? Because he wants a multi year deal.

The entire Jagr PP unit deferred to Jagr on almost every PP. Roszival ring a bell? Passing up shots to pass to Jagr? Straka trying to force passes cross ice to Jagr ring a bell? Thats what i mean by modeling.

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06-29-2008, 05:22 PM
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I'm not sure why it was thought/believed that Jagr would give the Rangers a discount.

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06-29-2008, 05:25 PM
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I'm not sure why it was thought/believed that Jagr would give the Rangers a discount.
Considering we had a "disount" the whole time we had him I doubt he would give us another. That was my point before, we got spoiled having him at a low cap hit, as i'm sure Dolan and Sather did also.

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06-29-2008, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
If Jagr played a full season with 2nd half Dubinksy and didn't play his 1st 2 games with Hossa what would he have done?

Jagrs saving it for the playoffs also had a lot to do with how his body changed since he got in the league and the amount of rest he needed...i think only a simpleton would think that jagr was holding back goals during the season...like "gee i could score now but i better save it for march" i mean is that what you really think went on?
1) You don't think its a problem that your team leader is dependant on his centerman?

2) Isn't all this a fancy way of saying that he doesn't have enough left to play a full season and then in the playoffs at a high level? And if this the case, are you really going to pay good money for this guy to be the offensive catalyst for your team?

How is Jagr different from what you were saying about Shanahan last year?

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06-29-2008, 05:27 PM
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Considering we had a "disount" the whole time we had him I doubt he would give us another. That was my point before, we got spoiled having him at a low cap hit, as i'm sure Dolan and Sather did also.
The Rangers might have had a discount. But Jagr was still getting paid big bucks. I don't think he cared where it was going from.

He was never taking less to be with the Rangers. They were just paying less.

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06-29-2008, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
1) You don't think its a problem that your team leader is dependant on his centerman?

2) Isn't all this a fancy way of saying that he doesn't have enough left to play a full season and then in the playoffs at a high level? And if this the case, are you really going to pay good money for this guy to be the offensive catalyst for your team?

How is Jagr different from what you were saying about Shanahan last year?
C'mon man, how can you even compare Shanny and Jagr. I think even Shanny would laugh at you for that.

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06-29-2008, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
The Rangers might have had a discount. But Jagr was still getting paid big bucks. I don't think he cared where it was going from.

He was never taking less to be with the Rangers. They were just paying less.
OK but you don't think Jagr knew the profit the Rangers gained? I bet his agent knows it and is using it in talks, if he's a half good agent he is anyway. I can see this Jagr thing going well into mid July atleast.

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06-29-2008, 05:31 PM
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OK but you don't think Jagr knew the profit the Rangers gained? I bet his agent knows it and is using it in talks, if he's a half good agent he is anyway. I can see this Jagr thing going well into mid July atleast.

The profit gained? What is that supposed to mean?

I think Jagr saw his paychecks every two weeks and liked how high they were. I don't think he cared that the Caps where paying part of his salary. Would you?

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06-29-2008, 05:34 PM
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C'mon man, how can you even compare Shanny and Jagr. I think even Shanny would laugh at you for that.
I'm not comparing the two.

I'm saying that the most vocal concern regarding Shanahan is he wouldn't have enough to be productive throughout the season. And those concerns proved to be correct. And I was a supporter of bringing him back.

Now, after seeing Jagr's production drop an average of 26 points over the last two seasons isn't the same concern about Shanahan valid for Jagr?

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06-29-2008, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm not comparing the two.

I'm saying that the most vocal concern regarding Shanahan is he wouldn't have enough to be productive throughout the season. And those concerns proved to be correct. And I was a supporter of bringing him back.

Now, after seeing Jagr's production drop an average of 26 points over the last two seasons isn't the same concern about Shanahan valid for Jagr?
Did Shanny lead the league is scoring through the first two rounds of the playoffs the year your talkin about? I don't think he finished the season that strong.

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06-29-2008, 05:44 PM
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Did Shanny lead the league is scoring through the first two rounds of the playoffs the year your talkin about? I don't think he finished the season that strong.
He did not. But Jagr didn't even lead his team in scoring for the first 5 months of the season.


So why then, did we not see the Jagr of the first two rounds for the majority of the regular season?

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06-29-2008, 05:46 PM
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Would rather have Hossa near $8M than Jagr who will either command more than Gomez is making, or be unhappy because he is not, and play like it.

Rather pay Jagr 7 mill for 2 than Hossa 8 mill for 7

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06-29-2008, 05:46 PM
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Sounds like negotiation to me, he doesn't want to make less than Drury and Gomez but that is what they are offering (probably under Lundy's salary, too).

I don't think it's exceptionally arrogant for a guy who has had the success and accolades Jagr has earned and it's certainly not out of character. But when you think about what he is really saying here, it is "In the NHL, salary reflects your importance to the team, and I want to know that I am still the most important player on the Rangers." In other words, I should still be the highest-paid player.

I hope he goes to Russia, personally, I could put up with his crap when he was a spectacularly entertaining player bu I'd sooner see the intrigue of him jumping ship than watch him hang on until he can't go any more.

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06-29-2008, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'm not comparing the two.

I'm saying that the most vocal concern regarding Shanahan is he wouldn't have enough to be productive throughout the season. And those concerns proved to be correct. And I was a supporter of bringing him back.

Now, after seeing Jagr's production drop an average of 26 points over the last two seasons isn't the same concern about Shanahan valid for Jagr?

I see your point for sure. But in the Playoffs Jagr was obviously still capable and Shanny was invisable

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06-29-2008, 05:48 PM
  #74
FLYLine24
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Please July 1st come already...these threads are killing me.

People are blowing everything out of the water, reading what they want to read, skipping what they don't to make Jagr sound like the worst guy we've ever had.

The man was our best player since the lockout, helped the turnaround from being the joke of the NHL by his MVP season and becoming a consistent playoff team, but now lets throw him out the door and spit on him why don't we.

Bring on Ryder!


Last edited by FLYLine24: 06-29-2008 at 06:22 PM.
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06-29-2008, 05:49 PM
  #75
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[QUOTE=SingnBluesOnBroadway;14614135]
Quote:
) You don't think its a problem that your team leader is dependant on his centerman?
If Gomez was the team leaders wouldn't we be talking about what wingers work best with him. If Drury was the captain (as he might be in a few weeks) wouldn't we be talking about who works well with him and who doesn't? I don't think it's a problem that Jagr works well with some guys and not with others. I never did..going back to last year on July 2nd when I wondered on this board if Jagr was going to be happy without Nylander (and got ripped for it)



Quote:
Isn't all this a fancy way of saying that he doesn't have enough left to play a full season and then in the playoffs at a high level? And if this the case, are you really going to pay good money for this guy to be the offensive catalyst for your team?

How is Jagr different from what you were saying about Shanahan last year?
No i don't think it's a fancy way of saying he doesn't have enough left in the tank. I think it's a logical explanation as to why his production took a step backwards last year. I don't think Jagr should be signed for more than 1 season but i think the expectations without him in the lineup next season are a little high..we have good smart fans here posting that ryder and rolston can easily take his place...i just don't see that...i also think we have fans here that were waiting for quote like this to pounce on jagr as if he said something wrong.

Jagr is much diffrent from the Shanahan situation. My beef with Shanny was that he talked a good game about returning and how this was the only place for him yet signed a contract for more money. That and other than oct and nov of 06 Shanny looked like his body retired..can we say the same for Jagr? two totally diffrent things..

the rangers survived just fine without shanny the past two years when they had to..would they have done as well without jagr? probably not..

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