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Malone's Ominous signing

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Old
06-30-2008, 08:38 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Truthfully I'm not a fan of Hossa's. I think he's soft--that he plays his best when he's the second banana not the first. That's what it's been like in Ottawa, Atlanta and Pittsburgh. On top of which I'm wondering that if the Rangers sign him for $8 mil + for the next 6 years they won't be taking themselves out of the market when some better player comes along. This will be the guy who leads the offense for the next few years if we sign him--and at this point I wouldn't call him a slam dunk HOF'er. Rangers may make the playoffs with him being the key offensive guy but legitimate hopes for a Stanley Cup with him leading the way are a pipedream.
I think you worry about someone better coming along when they come along and worry about today, well today.

The Rangers need a winger that can score goals and Hossa fits the bill.My only concern would be years. But I would not let that be the determining factor. If the his decision was between the Rangers and anothe rteam and all we had to do was add a year or 2, I'm adding the years.

My offer would be 45 over 5

10.5
10.5
10
7
7

Cap hit would be 9 million which is a number he will absolutely get tomorrow.

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06-30-2008, 08:44 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
I think you worry about someone better coming along when they come along and worry about today, well today.

The Rangers need a winger that can score goals and Hossa fits the bill.My only concern would be years. But I would not let that be the determining factor. If the his decision was between the Rangers and anothe rteam and all we had to do was add a year or 2, I'm adding the years.

My offer would be 45 over 5

10.5
10.5
10
7
7

Cap hit would be 9 million which is a number he will absolutely get tomorrow.
no way do i give Marian Hossa 9 mil per year, when Evgeni Malkin isnt even going to make that much. Hossa doesnt deserve to be the Highest paid player in the current NHL.

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06-30-2008, 08:52 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
no way do i give Marian Hossa 9 mil per year, when Evgeni Malkin isnt even going to make that much. Hossa doesnt deserve to be the Highest paid player in the current NHL.
How do you know that Malkin won't get that?

His only quote was that he didn't HAVE to make more than Sidney, not that he wouldn't accept it. Plus it's not like Malkin can just up and sign with anyone. Realistically, if Malkin could sign anywhere, I'd expect that he would get the max allowable under the current CBA and as such, Hossa would fall behind him on the salary scale of things.

Hossa is a legit first line winger in thew prime of his career. He's averaging just under a point a game over his 10 seasons and scoring a goal every 2.34 games. And that's including this past season where he's had his lowest totals in the last 5 years.

Hossa made 7 million last year, he's in position to dictate where he goes and for how much and considering that everyone overpaus this time of year, the difference between 8 - 8.5 - 9 million is minimal when the dollars are that high.

I think he gets the 9 million. But wouldn't be surprised if he signs for 8 or 8.5 either.

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06-30-2008, 08:53 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Cap hits are averaged out over the life of the contract.
You are right about that obviously... I used the cap hit phrase when I was thinking in terms of budget. So I guess the question still stands... is $32M too much for Sather to be putting into 5 players in a single year or multiple years?

Quote:
Malone is a good player but not $4 mil + for 7 years good. It's a very underwhelming UFA class this year but one can already see that teams will not be able to control themselves.
Even worse than that; the deal is basically for $4.5M per. These TB owners just set a *horrible* precedent for all teams. And they're going to eat their own dog food too because if they want Rolston, he's going to command bigger money than that specifically because of what Malone got (i.e. Rolston is a much better player). I hope the other GMs and owners make some strong statements about this in the coming days and don't follow TB's lead. Borderline irresponsible IMO.

Quote:
Hossa is an excellent player but there's no way he replaces Jagr.
Actually at this stage of Jagr's career, Hossa is unquestionably a more valuable player IMO. He's likely to get more G and A per season, he's faster and plays a far more consistent two-way game than Jagr. 3 or 4 years ago might be a different story but right now Hossa is the better player all-around IMO. I'm sure Sather wouldn't mind replacing Mr. Moodswing with Hoss.

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06-30-2008, 09:09 AM
  #80
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Avery has one stat for leverage and that is the team's winning pct. He is coming off various injuries. Never scored 20 goals or 40 points, and he now has a reputation for disappearing in the second round after doing it two years in a row. He also doesn't fight anymore, has yet to harness the NHL's offsides rules, makes costly plays in his own zone and doesn't kill penalties. I love the guy to death and he is great in his pest role, but he deserves no more than 3 million. Malone, on the other hand, is perceived to be this gritty, gutsy two-way power forward, but in reality he's a soft big man who couldn't crack 30 goals playing with Crosby and/or Malkin.

Both will be overpaid and not meet the contract's expectations.


I used to watch a lot of Tampa Bay games last year (out of boredom) and both Smith and Ramo were grossly inconsistent. Secondly, Kuba, O'Brien and Ranger were terrible late in games, and as a team they played WORSE once Boyle returned. The only player who was paying dividends for them was Jeff Halpern, because Lecavalier and St. Louis were dead tired down the stretch because idiot Torts used to play them 25 mins a game a lot during the first few months all the way up till the end.

By adding Malone and poss. Rolston, they could roll 3 lines. But we as Rangers fans know better than anybody that a big splash on UFA Day doesn't mean squat if you have a poor defense.

Melrose is overrated. Malone is overrated. Their goaltending stinks, and their defense is a one-man unit. The division and conference will also be a lot better.

This season will be a disappointment for TB.

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06-30-2008, 09:47 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Truthfully I'm not a fan of Hossa's. I think he's soft--that he plays his best when he's the second banana not the first. That's what it's been like in Ottawa, Atlanta and Pittsburgh. On top of which I'm wondering that if the Rangers sign him for $8 mil + for the next 6 years they won't be taking themselves out of the market when some better player comes along. This will be the guy who leads the offense for the next few years if we sign him--and at this point I wouldn't call him a slam dunk HOF'er. Rangers may make the playoffs with him being the key offensive guy but legitimate hopes for a Stanley Cup with him leading the way are a pipedream.
I think hoping for a Stanley Cup with one guy leading the way is a pipe-dream regardless of who is doing the leading. What team in the history of this league has won the Cup with one guy carrying the offensive load?

Too many Ranger fans are looking for that big name on the back of a sweater. Nobody thinks we can compete without a Kovalchuk, Gaborik or Ovechkin leading the way. Frankly, thats a load of garbage. We need depth and chemistry to succeed with the style of play this team is implementing.

How is Hossa soft? He's extremely strong on the puck, he works in the corners and he throws hits. I don't get it.

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06-30-2008, 02:26 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by DarrenTurcotte8 View Post
Avery has one stat for leverage and that is the team's winning pct. He is coming off various injuries. Never scored 20 goals or 40 points, and he now has a reputation for disappearing in the second round after doing it two years in a row.
Nice point. It's obviously his selfish nature and his attitude that led to his disappearance, not his near-death experience and subsequent season ending injury. Kind of hard to show up when you are in a hospital bed with a lacerated spleen. I mean, it's different when it happened to Forsberg. They at least took his out, Avery still has his and it was only a scratch.

One thing that has worked for New York over the last 3 years is how they are now building teams based not just on stats, but on other factors and characteristics. When we built teams by using the backs of hockey cards, we missed the playoffs 7 straight years. Avery brings more than goals and points, much like Malone. It is no coincidence that their teams got further than 22 other teams. It's not just them but the way those teams were built. Hockey is more than scoring goals.

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Old
06-30-2008, 02:29 PM
  #83
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Um, Avery wasn't near death, ever.

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06-30-2008, 02:31 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
Um, Avery wasn't near death, ever.
How do you know, were you there!? Meh, you probably only saw the surgery on video....


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06-30-2008, 02:40 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
How do you know, were you there!? Meh, you probably only saw the surgery on video....

LOL. Love the silly season around here.

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06-30-2008, 02:41 PM
  #86
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Um, Avery wasn't near death, ever.
He could have died from his injuries, I apologize for the vagueness of my response. The point is that his disappearance wasn't due to him becoming invisible on the ice or poor play, it was due to his injuries, his abscence from the lineup. I can say that Shanahan and Avery disappeared in the second round this year, and it's true to an extent. But both disappearances are very different between the players.

-Crosby disappeared in the second half of the season, he doesn't deserve his huge contract.- I'd be flamed endlessly if I posted that here, and I'd deserve it.

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06-30-2008, 02:46 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
He could have died from his injuries, I apologize for the vagueness of my response. The point is that his disappearance wasn't due to him becoming invisible on the ice or poor play, it was due to his injuries, his abscence from the lineup. I can say that Shanahan and Avery disappeared in the second round this year, and it's true to an extent. But both disappearances are very different between the players.

-Crosby disappeared in the second half of the season, he doesn't deserve his huge contract.- I'd be flamed endlessly if I posted that here, and I'd deserve it.
im sorry but how in the world can you compare Corsby, who is supposed to be the son of God, to Avery. im sorry but explain it to me.

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Old
06-30-2008, 03:26 PM
  #88
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It's only monday and I'm sick of this board already.

Time to go on vacation.

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06-30-2008, 03:45 PM
  #89
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Mugerya..

if Avery's disappearance was due to injuries, and after having a season in which he laced them up for only 57 games, and 55 games two seasons ago, does one start to worry about his ability to stand up to 82 games, and thus does it become more risky signing him to 3-4 years at about $4MM per?

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06-30-2008, 07:07 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
im sorry but how in the world can you compare Corsby, who is supposed to be the son of God, to Avery. im sorry but explain it to me.
Where did I say Crosby and Avery are on the same level? The comparision isn't about ability. The comparision is in regards to injury vs healthy. Avery disappeared in the playoffs only in the sense that he was hurt and out of the lineup, not due to bad play... which is the implication when people go around saying he disappeared.

My point is that if you are going to say Avery disappeared, then you can say Crosby disappeared, or someone like Roberts disappeared. It's a cop out of an argument, it's an easy way to slight someone without actually making a valid argument. The only parallel is that both Crosby and Avery were hurt, nothing about ability. It was an analogy. OK?

edit: I'm assuming you know that Crosby missed most of the 2nd half due to a high ankle sprain. I glossed over that fact. The comparison therefore is only between situations and not performance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
if Avery's disappearance was due to injuries, and after having a season in which he laced them up for only 57 games, and 55 games two seasons ago, does one start to worry about his ability to stand up to 82 games, and thus does it become more risky signing him to 3-4 years at about $4MM per?
That is a vaild argument and a good question. It's fine to bring up his health and wonder if it's worth the money for a guy that gets hurt. It's not ok to say he's a bad investment by implying he has a bad playoff performance, that he was invisible or disappears, when in actuality he was hurt. Basically, if you're going to knock him for the second round, do it by questioning his durability, not his numbers or performance. He showed up to play until he lacerated his spleen. It's just a low blow in my opinion to fault a guy for 'disappearing' when he's in a hospital bed.

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06-30-2008, 09:15 PM
  #91
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I agree with that...

my only point was regarding the whole picture. If a guy's playing hurt in the playoffs and disappears, then it doesn't necessarily mean that it's his annual disappearing act. Fact is there are few players who have four great series in the playoffs and the best of them take off a series here and there - in those instances it's not noticed if he's on a good team and still advances.

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06-30-2008, 10:57 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
Nice point. It's obviously his selfish nature and his attitude that led to his disappearance, not his near-death experience and subsequent season ending injury. Kind of hard to show up when you are in a hospital bed with a lacerated spleen. I mean, it's different when it happened to Forsberg. They at least took his out, Avery still has his and it was only a scratch.

One thing that has worked for New York over the last 3 years is how they are now building teams based not just on stats, but on other factors and characteristics. When we built teams by using the backs of hockey cards, we missed the playoffs 7 straight years. Avery brings more than goals and points, much like Malone. It is no coincidence that their teams got further than 22 other teams. It's not just them but the way those teams were built. Hockey is more than scoring goals.
I agree...I don't think people understand how important the spleen is to the body nor how dangerous it was for Avery to even finish that game.

Also Avery wasn't even close to the reason the Rangers lost to Pittsburgh...The real reason is so easy yet so hard for some (not all) to understand..Pittsburgh was a better team!

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07-01-2008, 03:13 PM
  #93
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Anyone think Kolzig or Huet have a chance of landing in Tampa?
Did i call it, or did i call it!



http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/tbl080701c.html

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07-01-2008, 03:23 PM
  #94
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Some people are missing the point about the pittsburgh series. He disappeared way before the spleen injury. Its great he fought through it, but he wasn't a factor for the other 2 games prior. The penguins weren't biting on his agitation, and I don't remember him being overly physical except for the Fleury thing.

Lets not pretend like he was diagnosed with the spleen in game 1 and fought through it, because that is not what happened. Not to take anything away from him and his guts which I respect, but he probably didn't know what it was until he had the collapse. He probably just though he got bruised or something else. Its not like he sat there and said, "well I can tell my spleen is lacerated, I could play or die. I'm going to choose to play."

Also,for what its worth, the rangers won the only game of that series, when he was out.

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