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Another Jagr thread. Sundin+Jagr is Brooks #1 plan

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Old
06-30-2008, 08:24 AM
  #26
Burlington Bomb 26
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Originally Posted by shoothepuck View Post
More pure speculation, and still no mention of the solid D Man that the team really needs. Can't wait for 5 oclock tommorow.
you mean 12 o'clock tommorrow

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06-30-2008, 08:35 AM
  #27
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Its Brooks' #1 plan, not the Rangers.

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06-30-2008, 09:10 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Its Brooks' #1 plan, not the Rangers.
That's exactly what i was going to say. Fanciful musings of a guy who's had his fair share of bull over the years.

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Old
06-30-2008, 09:17 AM
  #29
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Sorry but this is more Brooks' plan than the Rangers.

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Old
06-30-2008, 09:22 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Does he really know what's going on or is he just speculating? If I were to guess I would say today's column is a lot about speculating.
He's speculating. Unfortunately, once you print speculation in a newspaper - without quotes from anyone - it becomes fact. Where's the Sundin point prediction thread?

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06-30-2008, 09:23 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Its Brooks' #1 plan, not the Rangers.
Ding ding ding.

Unless Sundin and Jagr take discounts, our defense is going to take a hit. But after reading that article the other day, it seems Jagr is looking for a large chuck of "respect" to play wherever he goes.

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06-30-2008, 09:31 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
Rozsival will get less than 4 mil per
No, I am sure he would get close to 5-6, if not more, on the open market -- without any single doubt.

He have been the nr 1 D on a solid PO team for 3 straight years. If he is worth it or not, thats another debate, but we won't be able to resign him for less then 4, that I would bet my right arm on.

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06-30-2008, 09:32 AM
  #33
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No, I am sure he would get close to 5-6, if not more, on the open market -- without any single doubt.

He have been the nr 1 D on a solid PO team for 3 straight years. If he is worth it or not, thats another debate, but we won't be able to resign him for less then 4, that I would bet my right arm on.
Rozsival has gotten surgery this off-season and is not as good as Liles, and Liles only got 4 mil per.

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Old
06-30-2008, 09:43 AM
  #34
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I'm not a huge fan of Roszival--he peaked in the Buffalo series two years ago and fell off in 07-08 but Liles isn't the greates thing since sliced bread either. He's another of a long list of players I'd be less than excited about--Hossa (will get too much money), Malone got about the right amount of money but way too many years. To add to the list--Campbell, Redden (past his peak), Huselius, Ryder, Satan (definitely on the decline). Orpik I like but he's mostly one dimensional--Rolston I like but he's a bit old. Honestly to my mind the two best UFA's out there are Jagr and Avery. Sundin might fit well with Jagr but I wouldn't count on it happening even if it is Sather's gameplan--too many if's--too many other teams.

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06-30-2008, 09:44 AM
  #35
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Do we really want to have the oldest first line in all of hockey?

Signing Sundin would be a very temporary offensive boost but does nothing for the future.

If Sather wants to bring in a big-name, big-results forward then it should be a young guy who's going to be here for a while. If we sign Sundin and Jagr it's just two old guys clogging up the roster, holding back our young guys from getting decent playtime and experience. If you're gonna clog up the roster and keep the kids waiting for their shot to play, it should at least be with players who are going to be here in a few years so they can build chemistry.

Signing Sundin and Jagr is not a way to win a cup, it's a way to get bad positioning in the draft while keeping young guys out of the lineup. And in a year or two when they're both gone we'll ask ourselves "What was the point?" We could have been making progress developing a post-jagr era team.

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06-30-2008, 09:47 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by NYR2330 View Post
I really, really hate this idea. What happens if Sundin + Jagr do not mesh together. We try Dubinsky with Jagr again and put Sundin on the third line? Additionally, where do we find the money to actually fix the needs this team has. If its true that Drury is fine on the wing, that is great. But it still does not change the fact that if you go all in on Mats and JJ that we will lack the $ to sign defensemen and a winger or two.
I hate this idea even IF Sundin and Jagr mesh well together.

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06-30-2008, 09:48 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by RegalRangers View Post
Do we really want to have the oldest first line in all of hockey?

Signing Sundin would be a very temporary offensive boost but does nothing for the future.

If Sather wants to bring in a big-name, big-results forward then it should be a young guy who's going to be here for a while. If we sign Sundin and Jagr it's just two old guys clogging up the roster, holding back our young guys from getting decent playtime and experience. If you're gonna clog up the roster and keep the kids waiting for their shot to play, it should at least be with players who are going to be here in a few years so they can build chemistry.

Signing Sundin and Jagr is not a way to win a cup, it's a way to get bad positioning in the draft while keeping young guys out of the lineup. And in a year or two when they're both gone we'll ask ourselves "What was the point?" We could have been making progress developing a post-jagr era team.
Yep, for those of you who want this, do you want a 38 and 39 year old skating with top minutes in 2010??

Cause thats what its going to be.

I dont care if its Mario and Gretz at that age, with the direction this team has been going the past 4 years it would be a terrible waste of games for that to happen.

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06-30-2008, 09:55 AM
  #38
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With only a little over $20mil in cap space, how can anyone expect the Rangers to sign Sundin & Jagr (who would probably cost around $16mil total for both of them), and then still fill out the rest of the roster?

It's impossible, literally. We'd still be missing 3 defensemen and probably 2 forwards as well, and a backup goaltender.

Ain't going to happen, period.

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:00 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I hate this idea even IF Sundin and Jagr mesh well together.
And I suppose you support the idea of having a top 6 forward corp that might include Rolston, Ryder, Dawes, and Prucha in addition to Gomez and Drury? Thats suicide.

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:02 AM
  #40
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Looks like my fear is coming true... if this is true. But it's Brooks, and he is a tool.

I wouldn't mind Jagr coming back, but not at the expense of the health of the franchise.

We absolutely can not afford to sign Sundin and handcuff this organization.

Throwing Dubinsky back to the third line would stunt his development.

Also, this would assure Anisimov has zero chance of making the club at all for the next two years. And that is very bad. We are going to make him rot in Hartford? In favor of a bunch of 37 year olds?

Don't like it one bit.

Despite all the talented youth we have been developing, they still have the same old Rangers mentality of going after past their prime vets.

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:02 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
With only a little over $20mil in cap space, how can anyone expect the Rangers to sign Sundin & Jagr (who would probably cost around $16mil total for both of them), and then still fill out the rest of the roster?

It's impossible, literally. We'd still be missing 3 defensemen and probably 2 forwards as well, and a backup goaltender.

Ain't going to happen, period.
Easily attainable bonuses that will count towards next year...we'd still have enough room to sign a quality defenseman, and we have enough forwards to complete the roster.

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:05 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Looks like my fear is coming true.

I wouldn't mind Jagr coming back, but not at the expense of the health of the franchise.

We absolutely can not afford to sign Sundin and handcuff this organization.

Throwing Dubinsky back to the third line would stunt his development.

Also, this would assure Anisimov has zero chance of making the club at all for the next two years. And that is very bad. We are going to make him rot in Hartford? In favor of a bunch of 37 year olds?

Don't like it one bit.

Despite all the talented youth we have been developing, they still have the same old Rangers mentality of going after past their prime vets.
Signing Sundin for a year handcuffs the organization? That would be signing Hossa for 8 years.

Dubinsky is an ideal fit for the 3rd line. Can bring the grit and add some offense...would also be the 3rd best center on the team (like last year). He is not a first line center, and might never be one.

Anisimov is what? 20-21 years old? He could use more seasoning, and contrary to your opinion, won't be blocked with Sundin here for a year.

None of our "talented youth" is going to provide 80+ points next season.

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:09 AM
  #43
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Could anyone tell me what would be wrong with playing Dubi at the wing? That will keep Drury where he belongs.
I like the idea. You never have too many Cs. Injuries are not going away.

Dubi-Sundin-Jagr
Avery-Gomes-UFA
Prucha/Dawes-Drury-Callahan
Holweg/Sjostrom-Betts-Orr

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:13 AM
  #44
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Could anyone tell me what would be wrong with playing Dubi at the wing? That will keep Drury where he belongs.
I like the idea. You never have too many Cs. Injuries are not going away.
He can definitely adapt to it, but he's not as much of a goal scorer as Drury is. Dubi is better off as 3rd line C with kids like Callahan, Dawes, Korpedo who he will hopefully be playing with for the long term.

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:14 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Easily attainable bonuses that will count towards next year...we'd still have enough room to sign a quality defenseman, and we have enough forwards to complete the roster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Signing Sundin for a year handcuffs the organization? That would be signing Hossa for 8 years.

Dubinsky is an ideal fit for the 3rd line. Can bring the grit and add some offense...would also be the 3rd best center on the team (like last year). He is not a first line center, and might never be one.

Anisimov is what? 20-21 years old? He could use more seasoning, and contrary to your opinion, won't be blocked with Sundin here for a year.
I don't know where people are getting this ridiculous idea that Sundin and Jagr are going to sign one year deals. Jagr has already clearly said that he wants at least two.

So we sign them both at 7 mil per, with 2 mil from each deferred to next season. So next year, we have them both AGAIN at 7 mil, but now we also have 4 mil in dead cap space from their 'easily attainable bonuses' that carry over. So assume the cap jumps 6 mil like it did this season. That leaves 2 mil for raises when we have to resign the following players next summer: Dubinsky, Callahan, Betts, Byers and Potter. Some who are still RFA/UFA but may not be signed: Orr, Prucha, Backman and Hollweg.

Yeah, but Sundin and Jagr is still the better play than Hossa.

Quote:
None of our "talented youth" is going to provide 80+ points next season.
Neither Sundin, nor Jagr scored 80+ points last year. What makes you so sure that they'll do it next year?

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:15 AM
  #46
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I hate the fact that we are trying to toy with one of the only strengths of the Rangers and thats down the middle.

Dubinsky, Gomez, Drury and Betts should all be used as centers.

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:23 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't know where people are getting this ridiculous idea that Sundin and Jagr are going to sign one year deals. Jagr has already clearly said that he wants at least two.

So we sign them both at 7 mil per, with 2 mil from each deferred to next season. So next year, we have them both AGAIN at 7 mil, but now we also have 4 mil in dead cap space from their 'easily attainable bonuses' that carry over. So assume the cap jumps 6 mil like it did this season. That leaves 2 mil for raises when we have to resign the following players next summer: Dubinsky, Callahan, Betts, Byers and Potter. Some who are still RFA/UFA but may not be signed: Orr, Prucha, Backman and Hollweg.

Yeah, but Sundin and Jagr is still the better play than Hossa.

Neither Sundin, nor Jagr scored 80+ points last year. What makes you so sure that they'll do it next year?
Its been stated by many outlets that Sather is holding steady on 1 year offers for both Jagr and Sundin. Its also been stated that the Rangers are both of these players #1 NHL destination. Ridiculous idea? Hardly.

If either of them demand more than 1 year, then I agree its time to move in a different direction. If they both agree to a 1 year deal, its the best thing that can happen given the circumstances.

Of course Hossa is better than both of them, but guess what, thats why he is going to break the bank with some team.

30 million per season invested to Gomez, Drury, Lundqvist, and Hossa for at least the next 4 years is going to pose a problem.

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:24 AM
  #48
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I love it... 1 yr for both w/ incentives... better than any alternative signings.

do it up slats.

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:41 AM
  #49
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Its Brooks' #1 plan, not the Rangers.
I think Brooks deserves a bit more credit than you give him. This sounds exactly like a move Sather would make. Also, I think he had the Drury and Gomez plan last year and every one dismissed it.

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Old
06-30-2008, 10:45 AM
  #50
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I CANNOT wait for tomorrow and Wednesday to pass.

Or at least until Jagr and Sundin are out of the picture.

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