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How does Brewer stack up?

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Old
06-02-2004, 03:00 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
So by going off this, Brewer at $3,500,000 would be about fair - anyone agree with that?
Fair, maybe. I can't see it happening in small market Edmonton though. Isn't the talk regarding Nedved to have him sign for about 10 mil for 3 years which turns out to be about 3.33 mil / year? I can't justify paying Brew more than our first line centre when he may not even be our #1 D-man. To me Brewer's point total last year or even years before don't put him into that elite 3+ mil / year range.

Chalk me up for trading Brewer if he's going to be making 3.5 mil / year. I can't see that fitting the oilers 'fiscally responsible' budget. And we can get better bang for the buck.

In my dream world he'll make about 2.5 Mil / season, finally turn the corner to becoming an elite D-man and in the next contract rake it in.

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Old
06-02-2004, 09:27 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YKOil
:lol damn, that's funny coming from a Vancouver fan. Other than Ohlund I don't see much in Vancouver that is FAR superior to Edmonton.

Combined with a statement from another thread...



...I have to start to wonder.



YKOil
Regarding the Rangers - it's about where the teams are. The Rangers are on the 1st year of their rebuild. There is no problem with their defense for where they are at. The Oilers are entering year 5 of their rebuild, and while defense isn't the biggest problem, the Oilers blueline is a pretty shabby bunch. No #1 man, and some nights no #2. Again, you can call me a hater all you want - I calls it like it is.

As for Vancouver, I would argue, top to bottom, the Canucks blueline is better than the Oilers blueline.

Ohlund > Brewer
Jovanovski > Smith
Sopel > Staios
Salo > Ulanov
Malik > Cross
Allen > Bergeron

I'm going by icetime there, for both teams.

But that's just how I see it. I'm probobly a Vancouver homer and know nothing about the Oilers.

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Old
06-02-2004, 09:58 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
But that's just how I see it. I'm probobly a Vancouver homer and know nothing about the Oilers.
Finally something I agree with

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Old
06-02-2004, 10:55 PM
  #29
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I agree with a lot of what Mizral has said in this thread, but I disagree with a number of points as well. First of all I agree Brewer, by market standards, will be between 3-3.5 million. I have no problem paying him 3.5 million, he deserves it, he logs #1 minutes, and our blueline is crap without him (its pretty much crap with him anyways). Secondly, the canucks blueline is far superior than the oilers. Want proof? Look at the way vancouver continually dominates us when we play them.

Thirdly, while I admit Brewer will demand that contract and will get something like that from Lowe, evaluating from on ice talent alone, Aucoin, Redden, Jovanovksi, Ohlund, and McCabe are the only players signficantly better than Brewer. Rafalski has neither the speed, grit, or defensive coverage; Morris hasn't touched the minutes Brewer can play consistently, and at best could be considered equal; and Kaberle and Poti are offensive wizards who need to learn defense, and are worth far less than Brewer on the ice. Just the way I see it though.

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Old
06-02-2004, 11:00 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt
Secondly, the canucks blueline is far superior than the oilers. Want proof? Look at the way vancouver continually dominates us when we play them.
While I agree with this statement, I would argue that the gap might close significantly in the near future. If Lynch and Woywitka continue developing the way they should, and with Greene coming up, I can see a point where our defense will be superior to the Canucks'.

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Old
06-02-2004, 11:09 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloned
While I agree with this statement, I would argue that the gap might close significantly in the near future. If Lynch and Woywitka continue developing the way they should, and with Greene coming up, I can see a point where our defense will be superior to the Canucks'.
No doubt, the Oilers have great blueline prospects, and should come away with maybe another defenseman or two at this next draft. There is no doubt in my mind that in 3 years, the Oilers blueline will be MUCH improved based on the youngsters eeking their way into the lineup.

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06-02-2004, 11:15 PM
  #32
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If all in Western Canada believe Brewer is such a bow-wow, I assure you, the Hawks will be quite willing to underpay for his services.

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Old
06-02-2004, 11:30 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
But that's just how I see it. I'm probobly a Vancouver homer and know nothing about the Oilers.
I agree.

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Old
06-03-2004, 12:10 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mizral
Regarding the Rangers - it's about where the teams are. The Rangers are on the 1st year of their rebuild. There is no problem with their defense for where they are at. The Oilers are entering year 5 of their rebuild, and while defense isn't the biggest problem, the Oilers blueline is a pretty shabby bunch. No #1 man, and some nights no #2. Again, you can call me a hater all you want - I calls it like it is.

As for Vancouver, I would argue, top to bottom, the Canucks blueline is better than the Oilers blueline.

Ohlund > Brewer
Jovanovski > Smith
Sopel > Staios
Salo > Ulanov
Malik > Cross
Allen > Bergeron

I'm going by icetime there, for both teams.

But that's just how I see it. I'm probobly a Vancouver homer and know nothing about the Oilers.
I see things similar as well with a few variations.

I would agree Ohlund is better than Brewer but is also 2.5 years younger. Look at Ohlunds stats of three years ago, almost identical to Brewers stats of this year.

But if we are comparing icetime to icetime I don't think your comparisons are accurate. Lets compare due to icetime. In other words. Ohlund and Brewer have the most ice time for each, time Jovanoski and Staois are second.

Jovanoski over Staios but Jovocops +/- stats are a concern. Here is a guy that gets 40 points, has played for a team with a good differential between goals scored and goals against and had has struggled to stay in the positive in +/- statistics. Overrated defensively IMO. Staios has improved every year in +/- for the Oilers in the last three and was plus 17 this year. Yes Jovocop had a plus 19 in 2002-03 year but was only plus 2 this year and was -7 the year before, and -1 the year before that. Defensively I would rather have Staios on the ice.

Smith over Salo. If you look at the offensive stats almost identical, Smith is better defensively +13 to +8 and is team Captain. Smith is also grittier and tougher than Salo. Almost identical in age.

Sopel over Ulanov

Malik over Cross.

But this one is where you are out to lunch IMO.

Bergeron over Allen. Allen played 74 games and managed 7 whole points, and was a minus 10. Bergeron averaged more ice time than Bergeron, played only 54 games and had 26 points and was a plus 13. Bergeron 17:38, Allen 16:51. This one in my mind is no contest Bergeron by a wide Margin. Both born in 1980. How do you figure Allen is better than Bergeron???? What are you basing this on? Especially considering Bergeron was a rookie and Allen played 48 games the year before.

I agree with you that Vancouver has the better defence and as you mentioned in a previous post will lessen because of Edmonton's superior defensive depth in the organization.


Last edited by hockeyaddict101: 06-03-2004 at 12:23 AM.
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Old
06-03-2004, 12:10 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44

But this one is where you are out to lunch IMO.

Bergeron over Allen. Allen played 74 games and managed 7 whole points, and was a minus 10. Bergeron averaged more ice time than Bergeron, played only 54 games and had 26 points and was a plus 13. Bergeron 17:38, Allen 16:51. This one in my mind is no contest Bergeron by a wide Margin. Both born in 1980. How do you figure Allen is better than Bergeron???? What are you basing this on? Especially considering Bergeron was a rookie and Allen played 48 games the year before.

I agree with you that Vancouver has the better defence and as you mentioned in a previous post will lessen because of Edmonton's superior defensive depth in the organization.
Exactly my thoughts Spaz when I read Miz's original post. I'll grant that the Vancouver D is currently better than the Oilers D.

Ohlund > Brewer
Jovocop > Smith
Sopel > Staios
Malek > Cross
Salo > Ulanov

But the last one....

Bergeron >> Allen

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Old
06-03-2004, 08:17 PM
  #36
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Ohlund > Brewer yep
Jovocop > Smith Smith is a more valuable leader, this is pretty close but ok.
Sopel > Staios Not a chance. I wouldn't want Sopel on this team if he was a 500K ufa.
Malek > Cross Yep
Salo > Ulanov Nope. Salo is good, but these guys play completely different styles. I'll take the warrior over the guy with the booming shot every time.
Bergeron >> Allen yup.

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Old
06-04-2004, 08:58 AM
  #37
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Wow... here is how I see it (comparing their roles on the team).

#1 guy who eats up the minutes
Ohlund > Brewer (but I personally think the gap is pretty small right now).

#2 guy who is a physical force
Jovanovski > Smith (Jovo's offesnive side gives him the edge, but I think Smith is a slightly better defensive player)

#3 guy who spends some time on the pk/power play, jack of all trades.
Staois > Salo (another close one, Staois isn't ahead by much).

#4 guy who is big and positionally sound but can doesn't use his size enough.
Malik > Cross (Malik gets the nod based solely on age and better foot speed. They are almost identical in terms of the type of game they play).

# 5 guy who runs the power play and is more or less the offensive presence.
Sopel > Bergeron (Simply because Sopel has established himself at the NHL level already. Bergie had an up and down year, and isn't quite yet a regular NHLer but this is another one I would like to look back at in 2 years).

#6 guy who plays a physical role and does the dirty work
Ulanov > Allen (Allen is still learning and will definitely be a force in a couple of years, but Igor was huge last year and made a tremendous impact so he gets the nod as of now).

So right now it's the Canucks 4-2, but the only real difference is points from the backend. There isn't a whole lot to choose from between these 2 clubs, and a lot of times the difference is negligable (i.e. Malik-Cross, Staois-Salo).

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