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Another Jagr thread. Sundin+Jagr is Brooks #1 plan

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06-30-2008, 04:16 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
So.. here's an interesting little tidbit from the CBA and Bob McKenzie... link on tsn.

So.. now what?
Also, if we sign Jags to multi-year contract, and he walks before we buy him out, his salary is cap dead space for the remaining years. So, if we agree to $5MM per for three years, and he walks after year 1, we're stuck with a $5MM cap hit for two years with no player to show for it.

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06-30-2008, 04:16 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I don't see either signing for only one year. Sundin has one more contract left and he's off to the sunset. This is likely it for him. Same goes for Jagr. I don't think either want to hit free agency again or move again. Further, I don't think any will be particularly cheap, although both may come with some benign bonuses, but that just means the team signing them may be borrowing from tomorrow's cap space.
Yes, i dont see how some think that its realistic both sign a one year deal, or either of them for that matter.

Judging by that other post it looks like there is no borrowed space. To me thats great news for the Rangers, so they wont get caught in these types of deals this year.

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06-30-2008, 04:18 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
Also, if we sign Jags to multi-year contract, and he walks before we buy him out, his salary is cap dead space for the remaining years. So, if we agree to $5MM per for three years, and he walks after year 1, we're stuck with a $5MM cap hit for two years with no player to show for it.
And the same hole that can be filled right now instead of then.

Its all starting to settle in isnt it?

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06-30-2008, 04:18 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
Also, if we sign Jags to multi-year contract, and he walks before we buy him out, his salary is cap dead space for the remaining years. So, if we agree to $5MM per for three years, and he walks after year 1, we're stuck with a $5MM cap hit for two years with no player to show for it.
Color me happy if this means we finally move away from the geriatrics and start finding some young players to compliment the ones we have now.

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06-30-2008, 04:26 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I'll also go out on a limb and say the Rangers will either sign him or they won't.

The cost is what scares me. I can't see Sundin or Jagr giving some kind of great discount together to win a cup which means I see a lot of cap space being eaten by signing both of them. Additionally, I still see a team that lacks a PP or tough defenseman and is a very big mystery with it's bottom line scoring.

I just see a lot of money going into a plan that I really don't think puts us in the same ballpark as the top teams/cup contenders.
Now see, giving big money to Jagr/Sundin doesn't scare me at all, because at most, it will be for 2 years. Signing Campbell scares me more because that will be 6-7 years. I just don't think we can maintain that many big, longterm contracts at the same time. At some point our young guys are going to be UFAs and they are going to command more money than we are paying them right now.

Jagr/Sundin may not make us a favorite to win the cup, but it should keep us competitive and in the playoffs for the next two years. In that time, the young guys on this team will mature and others will be ready to step into the lineup from Hartford (Sangs, Chere, Anisimov, Byers, Korp, etc.).

I think we can afford Orpik though. He will require a longterm contract, but he will cost a lot less than Campbell. We need both a PP QB and a hard hitting Dman, but I don't think we can responsibly satisfy both needs with this FA crop. The cost to do so will hamstring us for years. We have 2 offensive Dmen in the system and Sangs should be ready within a year or two, so it makes sense to go after Orpik and leave Campbell to some other team IMO.

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06-30-2008, 04:31 PM
  #106
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GAG-

I'm kind of sick of being a 2nd round and out team. If not signing Jagr/Sundin means we might miss the POs, so be it. If we do make it, maybe we have a scrappy team that surprises people and is underestimated by their opponents. Who knows, but given the restrictions of the CBA going into it's final year, and the risk of signing over 35 year olds to more than a 2 year deal, I think I'm willing to see what a team of hungry, home grown players can do.

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06-30-2008, 04:37 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
And the same hole that can be filled right now instead of then.

Its all starting to settle in isnt it?
And that is where you are wrong. Have you seen the UFA list? Outside of Hossa, noone else can touch what Jagr and Sundin would bring.

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06-30-2008, 04:38 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
And the same hole that can be filled right now instead of then.

Its all starting to settle in isnt it?
yup TAVARES here we come..... the lowest scoring team in NHL history... drury i hate you and your contract... you are the sole reason why we cannot sign good players who deserve that much.

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06-30-2008, 04:42 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And that is where you are wrong. Have you seen the UFA list? Outside of Hossa, noone else can touch what Jagr and Sundin would bring.
So what?

How long are you signing those guys for?

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06-30-2008, 04:45 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
yup TAVARES here we come..... the lowest scoring team in NHL history... drury i hate you and your contract... you are the sole reason why we cannot sign good players who deserve that much.
Actually, that's not true. We can sign anyone we want to, we have the room. We just have to be able to fill other positions with internal talent.

Now be a good Smurfette and leave Papa Smurf alone, would you?

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06-30-2008, 04:45 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
yup TAVARES here we come..... the lowest scoring team in NHL history... drury i hate you and your contract... you are the sole reason why we cannot sign good players who deserve that much.
Sather is the one that handcuffed the Rangers with that contract, not Drury.

If you want to blame someone blame him.

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06-30-2008, 04:48 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Sather is the one that handcuffed the Rangers with that contract, not Drury.

If you want to blame someone blame him.
I know, but I still hate that contract and that Drury will never live up to it, and the fact he isn't as great offensively that people make him out to be. that and i have had a rough couple days so i'm just pissed in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
Actually, that's not true. We can sign anyone we want to, we have the room. We just have to be able to fill other positions with internal talent.

Now be a good Smurfette and leave Papa Smurf alone, would you?
sorry.

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06-30-2008, 04:51 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
GAG-

I'm kind of sick of being a 2nd round and out team. If not signing Jagr/Sundin means we might miss the POs, so be it. If we do make it, maybe we have a scrappy team that surprises people and is underestimated by their opponents. Who knows, but given the restrictions of the CBA going into it's final year, and the risk of signing over 35 year olds to more than a 2 year deal, I think I'm willing to see what a team of hungry, home grown players can do.
Yeah, I just read that CBA thing. I have no problem with going the youth route. My point is that I think it is safer to sign short term solutions (Jagr and Sundin) rather than long term ones (Campbell). There's no way Sather would give Jagr and Sundin more than 2 year deals, so I'm not worried about that.

Regardless of what else we do, I do think we should try to sign Orpik. Whatever happens, it should be an interesting week

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06-30-2008, 04:52 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And that is where you are wrong. Have you seen the UFA list? Outside of Hossa, noone else can touch what Jagr and Sundin would bring.
So what, we sign Jagr and Sundin (even more unlikely now) and then in 2 years Cherepanov, Anisimov and Sanguinetti all show up and replace their production immediately? Or are you holding out for the UFA's that aren't even guaranteed to be there?

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06-30-2008, 04:55 PM
  #115
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I think the Rangers might lose Roszival tomorrow.

Columbus and San Jose are interested and they have money to spend.

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06-30-2008, 05:01 PM
  #116
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I think the Rangers might lose Roszival tomorrow.

Columbus and San Jose are interested and they have money to spend.
Won't break my heart. Thanks for a good tenure here Rozy

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06-30-2008, 05:04 PM
  #117
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If we lose Rosie I bet we wind up with 0campbell. Ugh.

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06-30-2008, 05:20 PM
  #118
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Why does everyone think that this team is going to slip into 1000000 years of darkness and torture if Jagr leaves? Can't we wait until AFTER free agency to figure that out? I bet Sather makes all these moves and all the "We are going to be the lowest scoring team in NHL history" people are gona turn right around and say we will be fine. Jagr was going to leave at some point! The Rangers will be better of without Jagr.

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06-30-2008, 05:35 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
GAG-

I'm kind of sick of being a 2nd round and out team. If not signing Jagr/Sundin means we might miss the POs, so be it. If we do make it, maybe we have a scrappy team that surprises people and is underestimated by their opponents. Who knows, but given the restrictions of the CBA going into it's final year, and the risk of signing over 35 year olds to more than a 2 year deal, I think I'm willing to see what a team of hungry, home grown players can do.
While you and I might be ok with moving on with life after Jagr, even if it means missing the PO's...I'm fairly certain the organization doesn't feel the same way. So if our choices are 1) bring back Jagr and possibly Sundin for 1-2 years while we wait for young reinforcements and/or better UFAs to hit the market...or 2) sign Hossa and Campbell to 6 year deals tomorrow...I'll choose option 1.

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06-30-2008, 05:37 PM
  #120
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The way I see the Rangers two plans is to A) retain Jagr, add Sundin, re-sign Rozsival and that's it. If not, they'll have to B) repeat last July 1 and go hard after Hossa and Campbell.

Route A is the cheaper and safer route, less changeover, no long term deals. But route B will allow us to incorporate more youth and turn the reigns over to 'Drumez'.

i like your A route excluding resigning rozsival, i want redden....yea redden had a down year last year compared to years earlier, but ottawa as a whole had a down year and i think he needs a change of scenery

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06-30-2008, 06:16 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Color me happy if this means we finally move away from the geriatrics and start finding some young players to compliment the ones we have now.
Count me in.

Good news, IMO.

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06-30-2008, 07:20 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
So what, we sign Jagr and Sundin (even more unlikely now) and then in 2 years Cherepanov, Anisimov and Sanguinetti all show up and replace their production immediately? Or are you holding out for the UFA's that aren't even guaranteed to be there?
That philosophy would provide the luxury of giving Cherepanov and Anisimov good looks in the NHL before determining what their future with the organization will be.

And its certainly better than entrusting top 6 forward spots to a Rolston or a Ryder the next couple of years.

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06-30-2008, 07:24 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That philosophy would provide the luxury of giving Cherepanov and Anisimov good looks in the NHL before determining what their future with the organization will be.

And its certainly better than entrusting top 6 forward spots to a Rolston or a Ryder the next couple of years.
why? both of them have proven they can score and are good offensive players.

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06-30-2008, 08:30 PM
  #124
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why? both of them have proven they can score and are good offensive players.
Rolston is almost as old as Jagr (Jagr is much bigger, stronger, and more durable..by the way), who fans are pushing out of town and would probably outperform Rolston in his sleep next season. Rolston will be seeking AT LEAST 2 years.

Ryder is about as maddeningly inconsistent as they come...and thats when hes actually playing. Lets not forget he couldnt crack Montreal's lineup come playoff time last season.

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06-30-2008, 08:35 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Rolston is almost as old as Jagr (Jagr is much bigger, stronger, and more durable..by the way), who fans are pushing out of town and would probably outperform Rolston in his sleep next season. Rolston will be seeking AT LEAST 2 years.

Ryder is about as maddeningly inconsistent as they come...and thats when hes actually playing. Lets not forget he couldnt crack Montreal's lineup come playoff time last season.
Rolston may be as old but he would fit Gomez better than Jagr every could. Rolston is much faster, has a much better shot, and probably has more leadership than Jagr. I don't think he would refuse taking shootouts. Jagr is seeking at least 2 years and he is 2 years older than Rolston.

As for Ryder, yes he had an off year but playing with Gomez or Drury is just what he needs and he can score. A change of scenery and a chance at playing will help him get his game back. And most teams aren't going to make a change like that to their team. Montreal had a very good team and they weren't going to change anything until the goaltending. To not crack that lineup is not something to be ashamed of. They were heavily stacked.

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