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07-01-2008, 05:16 PM
  #51
OpenWheel
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If we save a few bucks, fine. I hope the club becomes profitable. It's not like we're going to have one of the low payrolls.

I'm not sure what people expected, Zids get bashed on here all the time, and every GM in the league expected we needed to move him. Yet when he does leave it's "He was great! Teams should have been throwing first round picks or top six forwards at us!"

If he was great, we'd want him on the team. Our defense is not yet great, just heading strongly in that direction.

We got a guy who looks about like a second round pick level who proved out. I'll bet he could step in a play third/fourth line and have people happier than Fiddler, or even Tootoo would. Maybe not, maybe he'll never play. But Hobey Baker finalist and some scoring touch at 6-2 215 isn't cheese. And then we got a second. Good.

I don't get it. We didn't seem to make a great steal here. But we didn't get ripped off either. Two potential players for one who is decent/good. Plus saved some money. Seems ok. We had to free up defensive space, and the trading partners knew it. I'd rather get this not so bad deal now then hang on to long looking for a great trade.

During the draft some were upset we didn't stock up the forward spot in skill or (mainly) size.Now we just added one. So we've got Geoffreon and now Jones, as guys with size and some skills to upgrade us there. And Wilson.

I like getting a forward with some size and skill. Even if he will never be top two line stuff.


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07-01-2008, 05:34 PM
  #52
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I think this means we have found our more talented bottom six guy and now I think Wilson will for sure be at BU in the fall. I would bet our scouts think this guy will make the roster with his physical go to the net style.

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07-01-2008, 05:45 PM
  #53
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Good call on that, nine. Lot of similarities in build and style, Wilson is more of a finisher.

I suspect this deal has been on the table for a while since DP is not one to make a panic move. They would have had to wait for the NMC to expire to pull the trigger. DP said on the Zone that the scouts were very high on this guy, that several offers were made and they felt this gave them the best return. He could fill the void of big net crasher and crease camper this team has needed. If he takes fewer (or at least smarter) PIMs than Hartnell did that is a plus to this roster.I would like to see more-- maybe he could push Smithson out if he pans out. Hornquist should take Sully's spot. then our lineup is more balanced...


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07-01-2008, 06:01 PM
  #54
triggrman
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
We will see. He is certainly a prospect that is not a 'name' prospect, and for us to move our no. 1 trade chip for a prospect, you would suspect he is either really well thought of, on the fast track, or something along those lines.... Anyone know any other succesful 4 year college guys?
Chris Drury 4 years at BU was the first one I thought of.

Adam Hall for the Predators.

Jordan Leopold is another, I'm still searching and adding.

Brendan Morrison

Brian Gionta

Jason Blake

Martin St. Louis

John Madden

Todd White

Jay Pandolfo

Chris Kunitz

John-Michael Liles

Tom Preissing

Mike York


Last edited by triggrman: 07-01-2008 at 06:20 PM.
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07-01-2008, 06:22 PM
  #55
Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Chris Drury 4 years at BU was the first one I thought of.

Adam Hall for the Predators.

Jordan Leopold is another, I'm still searching and adding.

Brendan Morrison

Brian Gionta

Jason Blake

Martin St. Louis

John Madden

Todd White

Jay Pandolfo

Chris Kunitz

John-Michael Liles

Tom Preissing

Mike York
those are all some pretty damm good & serviceable players ... nice list trigg

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07-01-2008, 06:31 PM
  #56
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I knew Drury won the Hobey, but I wasn't sure if he went all 4 years. The list is pretty impressive.

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07-01-2008, 06:33 PM
  #57
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This guy scored more goals than I thought (After I read a scouting report that said "slow" I thought he was still a project. His coach says "skates well". And his numbers ain't too shabby.)

Jay Levin's take:

What it all means

Some interesting fall out from the trade with Minnesota. First with the players we know.

The trade signals that the coaches expect Kevin Klein and Ville Koistinen, two restricted free agents, to play a larger role on next season’s team. Throughout the ’07-08 season the coaches routinely talked in glowing terms about Klein’s play during practices, but struggled to find a way to slide him into the lineup. Similarly, they spoke well of Koistinen’s performances – especially as a power-play quarterback– when he was dressed, but with all the depth had to rotate him into the lineup after Shea Weber returned from injury and the group was back at full strength. Koistinen ranked among rookie leaders in plus/minus rating (+13), defensemen scoring (17 points) and power-play scoring (11 power-play points). By moving Zidlicky, the team opened a clear path for both Klein and Koistinen to see more game time, while top prospects like Alexander Sulzer and Cody Franson – who looked impressive on and off the ice during the team’s 2008 Development Camp – slide one step closer to the big team.

As for the new player, Ryan Jones, he provides depth and further competition along the forward lines. A prolific scorer during his collegiate career, Jones scored 60 goals and 97 points in 84 games during his Junior and Senior seasons, serving as team captain both seasons. He was a finalist for the Hobey Baker Award last season, college hockey’s equivalent of the Heisman Trophy. He had a knack for scoring timely goals in college, finishing his career with 21 game-winning scores, second most in Division I college history.

His college coach, Enrico Blasi, said of Jones, “He’s a player who will go into the areas no one else really wants to go into. He’s a big power forward. Good goal scorer; led us in scoring last year. He skates well and can contribute in all aspects of the game. Has a knack for getting into those areas to score those ugly goals. He’s willing to bang and crash in the corners and in front of the net.”

With 12 forwards already under contract for next season (Arnott, Bonk, Dumont, Erat, Fiddler, Legwand, Nichol, Ortmeyer, Radulov, Smithson, Sullivan, Tootoo), Jones will likely enter training camp competing for the final forward roster spots with last season’s super-sub Rich Peverley, top prospects Patric Hornqvist and Antti Pihlstrom, and newly acquired tough-guy Triston Grant.

“He’s one of those guys who will do anything a coach says,” Blasi said of Jones. “I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes there to training camp, plays the role the coaches tell him to play and ends up on the NHL roster either out of camp or if they decide to send him to the AHL, works hard there and finds himself back up in the NHL within a month or two.”
-Jay Levin, NashvillePredators.com


I read it on the NHL website: http://predators.nhl.com/team/app/?s...ticleid=367330

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07-01-2008, 06:54 PM
  #58
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The Ortemeyer, Smithson and Fiddler thing is what bothers me, we don't need but one of those 3.

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07-01-2008, 07:05 PM
  #59
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It's kind of shocking to hear that this was the best trade offer for Zids, but maybe that shows how highly Poile and co. think of Jones.

At any rate - will we really miss Zidlicky? His primary value was on the PP, which was anemic (to be kind) last season. Weber is more than capable of becoming the shooter from the point on the PP, as he demonstrated two seasons ago, with Suter or Koistenen sliding into the QB slot. I think ultimately we will see this as an upgrade once these guys get some more PT and continue to develop.

We knew something had to be done on defense, and this is a good move from a budget standpoint. Hopefully Jones pans out to be a serviceable player and we are able to utilize the 2nd rounder (either through a trade or in the draft). It still seems that Poile undersold Zid's value a bit, but maybe this will be a case of addition by subtraction.

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07-01-2008, 07:11 PM
  #60
triggrman
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Remember when we traded Mike Dunham, our star goalie and everyone was upset because all we got was Rem Murray and Poile said, this European defenseman was the real deal and people would like this trade because of him, Zidlicky. Ranger fans were like, "he's just a throw-in" but Poile insisted he was a vital part of the trade. Remember that before you sell Jones short.

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07-01-2008, 07:46 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Remember when we traded Mike Dunham, our star goalie and everyone was upset because all we got was Rem Murray and Poile said, this European defenseman was the real deal and people would like this trade because of him, Zidlicky. Ranger fans were like, "he's just a throw-in" but Poile insisted he was a vital part of the trade. Remember that before you sell Jones short.
Very true. For the record, I'm not upset with the trade, and if you had asked me last year, I would have said the trade was fair. I do think Zidlicky's value should have been higher than what it 'appears' we received in this trade. However, if they are as high on Jones as Poile made them out to be, the trade makes sense. We need forwards, we need size, and he has both. Additionally, who knows if Poile was being lowballed or not from other teams. We have a unique situation as probably the only team with too many defensive prospects, NHL ready defenseman, and a tight budget....Not to mention this was the UFA season of the offensive defenseman and several big names Kubina/Boyle/Pitkanen/Visnosky/etc. are/were on the market

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07-01-2008, 07:50 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by predhead1 View Post
At any rate - will we really miss Zidlicky? His primary value was on the PP, which was anemic (to be kind) last season. Weber is more than capable of becoming the shooter from the point on the PP, as he demonstrated two seasons ago, with Suter or Koistenen sliding into the QB slot. I think ultimately we will see this as an upgrade once these guys get some more PT and continue to develop.
Zidlicky was passing on the PP, not shooting. You can call him out for not scoring a bunch of goals, but you cannot blame him for all the passes our forwards flubbed on the PP. Zidlicky was not our problem on the PP last year. In fact, our defense was not our problem. It was our forwards.

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07-01-2008, 08:13 PM
  #63
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Having watched the video, I'm much more upbeat. Any one of the following should get you excited:

1. Great hands on some of those goals-- much better than I expected.
2. Need a new #26 on our team to ease the pain.
3. Great mullet... really, really good mullet.
4. Celebrates like Rads.

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07-01-2008, 08:21 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Having watched the video, I'm much more upbeat. Any one of the following should get you excited:

1. Great hands on some of those goals-- much better than I expected.
2. Need a new #26 on our team to ease the pain.
3. Great mullet... really, really good mullet.
4. Celebrates like Rads.
I wouldn't get too excited about this as he is (or already has, I don't know) donated it to locks for love.

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07-01-2008, 08:39 PM
  #65
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meant to post this earlier for anyone who couldn't listen, but I was sidetracked. paraphrasing David Poile (and this is almost word for word) on Jones:

"he's a guy that our scouts are really high on. He's just coming out of college and we have to see if he's a prospect for Milwaukee or possible ready for the big club. I think he's maybe a guy who could come on to our team next season, he's the type of player we're looking for. Big and gritty"

"we have our 2 goaltenders. we have our 7 defensemen. Now we have in my mind 15 forwards who can vie for a spot. Ryan Jones is good depth, good competition and he's a guy who can come into camp and unseat somebody"

Exciting stuff!

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07-01-2008, 08:58 PM
  #66
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he's a guy who can come into camp and unseat somebody"
Exciting stuff!
We can hope.

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07-01-2008, 09:08 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
meant to post this earlier for anyone who couldn't listen, but I was sidetracked. paraphrasing David Poile (and this is almost word for word) on Jones:

"he's a guy that our scouts are really high on. He's just coming out of college and we have to see if he's a prospect for Milwaukee or possible ready for the big club. I think he's maybe a guy who could come on to our team next season, he's the type of player we're looking for. Big and gritty"

"we have our 2 goaltenders. we have our 7 defensemen. Now we have in my mind 15 forwards who can vie for a spot. Ryan Jones is good depth, good competition and he's a guy who can come into camp and unseat somebody"

Exciting stuff!
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Originally Posted by OpenWheel View Post
We can hope.
Well if he can't unseat Ortmeyer then something is seriously wrong.

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07-01-2008, 09:08 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Remember when we traded Mike Dunham, our star goalie and everyone was upset because all we got was Rem Murray and Poile said, this European defenseman was the real deal and people would like this trade because of him, Zidlicky. Ranger fans were like, "he's just a throw-in" but Poile insisted he was a vital part of the trade. Remember that before you sell Jones short.
Don't forget this trade allowed Vokoun to be THE number one. Rem Murray(had he stayed healthy) was worth Dunham but we got Zids and Koun out of the deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Zidlicky was passing on the PP, not shooting. You can call him out for not scoring a bunch of goals, but you cannot blame him for all the passes our forwards flubbed on the PP. Zidlicky was not our problem on the PP last year. In fact, our defense was not our problem. It was our forwards.
You can blame him for all of the passes that he made to forwards,,,of the other team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Having watched the video, I'm much more upbeat. Any one of the following should get you excited:

1. Great hands on some of those goals-- much better than I expected.
2. Need a new #26 on our team to ease the pain.
3. Great mullet... really, really good mullet.
4. Celebrates like Rads.
That's not a mullet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
meant to post this earlier for anyone who couldn't listen, but I was sidetracked. paraphrasing David Poile (and this is almost word for word) on Jones:

"he's a guy that our scouts are really high on. He's just coming out of college and we have to see if he's a prospect for Milwaukee or possible ready for the big club. I think he's maybe a guy who could come on to our team next season, he's the type of player we're looking for. Big and gritty"

"we have our 2 goaltenders. we have our 7 defensemen. Now we have in my mind 15 forwards who can vie for a spot. Ryan Jones is good depth, good competition and he's a guy who can come into camp and unseat somebody"

Exciting stuff!
This is what I was thinking about this kid.

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07-01-2008, 09:10 PM
  #69
triggrman
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Zidlicky was passing on the PP, not shooting. You can call him out for not scoring a bunch of goals, but you cannot blame him for all the passes our forwards flubbed on the PP. Zidlicky was not our problem on the PP last year. In fact, our defense was not our problem. It was our forwards.
IMHO it was our schemes.

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07-01-2008, 09:35 PM
  #70
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IMHO it was our schemes.
And IMHO, Zidlicky's tendency to frequently baby passes on the PP was a major reason for our power play's failure a lot of nights. Zidlicky commonly worked with his teammates to work them into positions for one-timers on the PP, however Marek would baby the pass and allow the defense to move into the shooting lane and eliminate and/or block the shooting lane most of the time.

I'm not going to bash on Zidlicky now that he is gone, nor will I pin the PP's inefficency on him either. Hockey is a team sport, everyone on the team shares in the glory and everyone on the team shares in the misery of failure. I do look forward to seeing how we adjust after this move...

By moving Zidlicky, Poile has opened up options for the Preds. He has immediately opened a spot for Kositinen and/or Klein on defense, longer-term he has opened a spot for a prospect like Franson, Laakso, Blum, or Josi to step into. Additionally, we have continued our organizational philosophy shift to become bigger, without comprimising skill, up front. Jones was obviously targeted by our scouting staff as a player we wanted. I have no doubt about that. Additionally, I can guarantee that Mitch Korn (who is based out of Miami of Ohio University) was consulted on this move and also most likely spoke with UMO head coach Enrico Blaisi about the move. We did our research and got what we felt was the best deal for Zidlicky. I suspect Jones will start the season in Milwaukee and be looked upon to possibly serve as a callup later in the season and be expected to compete for a roster spot in the 09-10 season. Jones should excel in Milwaukee with a playmaking center (O'Reilly, Mark Santorelli, etc) to feed him the puck and I fully expect him to contribute to the big club sooner, rather than later. Lastly, moving Zidlicky has opened up about $3.5 million in salary today. If we simply sit on this salary relief, I will be the first to admittedly be disappointed. I'm not calling for us to go out and use this entire chunk of change either, however we do have a couple more holes to fill in our lineup (enforcer, 2nd/3rd line tweener - top six forward) and I'm not going to be judging this move until we see what direction Poile goes in the next few weeks/months leading up to camp.

Our roster is nearly set, but it is not finished. Mr. Poile is extremely calculated in every move he makes and I remain confident in the overall direction of this team despite all the glitz and glam signings going on around the league today and even with the admittedly solid players moving into the division.

I think overall my confidence can be wrapped up in this thought. The Predators are not building a team, they are building an organization. The difference is simple, a team is a short-term solution to the problem of how to win the Stanley Cup. A team lacks stability much of the time and commonly has to look outside their own club to acquire a piece needed to attempt to fill a void. Teams are volatile and go in constant cycles of great play and absolute chaos, whereas organizations are generally self-sustaining and stable clubs who are able to overcome situations of despair by relying heavily on team chemistry and fundamental organizational beliefs. Organizations do have to occasionally reach outside of the club to acquire a player to fill a need, but usually have exhausted internal solutions to the problem prior to reaching that point. The Predators are an organization, not just a club and today is just a small portion of both our short and long term futures. Personally, I saw two moves today that stuck with our stated organizational philosophies and actually look forward to seeing how both pieces fit into the puzzle.

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07-01-2008, 10:15 PM
  #71
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And IMHO, Zidlicky's tendency to frequently baby passes on the PP was a major reason for our power play's failure a lot of nights. Zidlicky commonly worked with his teammates to work them into positions for one-timers on the PP, however Marek would baby the pass and allow the defense to move into the shooting lane and eliminate and/or block the shooting lane most of the time.

I'm not going to bash on Zidlicky now that he is gone, nor will I pin the PP's inefficency on him either. Hockey is a team sport, everyone on the team shares in the glory and everyone on the team shares in the misery of failure. I do look forward to seeing how we adjust after this move...

By moving Zidlicky, Poile has opened up options for the Preds. He has immediately opened a spot for Kositinen and/or Klein on defense, longer-term he has opened a spot for a prospect like Franson, Laakso, Blum, or Josi to step into. Additionally, we have continued our organizational philosophy shift to become bigger, without comprimising skill, up front. Jones was obviously targeted by our scouting staff as a player we wanted. I have no doubt about that. Additionally, I can guarantee that Mitch Korn (who is based out of Miami of Ohio University) was consulted on this move and also most likely spoke with UMO head coach Enrico Blaisi about the move. We did our research and got what we felt was the best deal for Zidlicky. I suspect Jones will start the season in Milwaukee and be looked upon to possibly serve as a callup later in the season and be expected to compete for a roster spot in the 09-10 season. Jones should excel in Milwaukee with a playmaking center (O'Reilly, Mark Santorelli, etc) to feed him the puck and I fully expect him to contribute to the big club sooner, rather than later. Lastly, moving Zidlicky has opened up about $3.5 million in salary today. If we simply sit on this salary relief, I will be the first to admittedly be disappointed. I'm not calling for us to go out and use this entire chunk of change either, however we do have a couple more holes to fill in our lineup (enforcer, 2nd/3rd line tweener - top six forward) and I'm not going to be judging this move until we see what direction Poile goes in the next few weeks/months leading up to camp.

Our roster is nearly set, but it is not finished. Mr. Poile is extremely calculated in every move he makes and I remain confident in the overall direction of this team despite all the glitz and glam signings going on around the league today and even with the admittedly solid players moving into the division.

I think overall my confidence can be wrapped up in this thought. The Predators are not building a team, they are building an organization. The difference is simple, a team is a short-term solution to the problem of how to win the Stanley Cup. A team lacks stability much of the time and commonly has to look outside their own club to acquire a piece needed to attempt to fill a void. Teams are volatile and go in constant cycles of great play and absolute chaos, whereas organizations are generally self-sustaining and stable clubs who are able to overcome situations of despair by relying heavily on team chemistry and fundamental organizational beliefs. Organizations do have to occasionally reach outside of the club to acquire a player to fill a need, but usually have exhausted internal solutions to the problem prior to reaching that point. The Predators are an organization, not just a club and today is just a small portion of both our short and long term futures. Personally, I saw two moves today that stuck with our stated organizational philosophies and actually look forward to seeing how both pieces fit into the puzzle.

WOW perfectly put man!!!!!

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07-01-2008, 10:19 PM
  #72
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I think overall my confidence can be wrapped up in this thought. The Predators are not building a team, they are building an organization. The difference is simple, a team is a short-term solution to the problem of how to win the Stanley Cup. A team lacks stability much of the time and commonly has to look outside their own club to acquire a piece needed to attempt to fill a void. Teams are volatile and go in constant cycles of great play and absolute chaos, whereas organizations are generally self-sustaining and stable clubs who are able to overcome situations of despair by relying heavily on team chemistry and fundamental organizational beliefs. Organizations do have to occasionally reach outside of the club to acquire a player to fill a need, but usually have exhausted internal solutions to the problem prior to reaching that point. The Predators are an organization, not just a club and today is just a small portion of both our short and long term futures. Personally, I saw two moves today that stuck with our stated organizational philosophies and actually look forward to seeing how both pieces fit into the puzzle.
Well said, well said. I may be imagining things but I think I remember the same thing being said about the beginning of this team during the waiver draft, that we were more concerned about building up the organization as a whole.

We've come a long way my friends. May not have gotten a perfect return for Zidlicky, but it addressed a few issues, that have been pointed out. Opens up space for some of the younger D-men to step it up, gets us a good, big forward prospect and another pick.

And yes, it will be interesting to see how the team and organization adjusts with the changes this off season, and more importantly how will Trotz and the other coaches handle guys like Wilson?

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07-02-2008, 07:40 AM
  #73
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I think what is bothering some is again we have got prospects and picks for a solid NHL player, when we were hoping for someone that could contribute now. We have a bazillion picks in next years draft. But we all knew a d-man had to be moved. So hopefully this guy pans out...

Also I read in the Tennessean that we were looking at Laraque, that would be a great signing so maybe that freed up the space to get him.

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07-02-2008, 08:35 AM
  #74
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so now how do we get rid of Smithson-Ortmeyer?

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Old
07-02-2008, 09:09 AM
  #75
braindead
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: The cookie spoke
Country: Tibet
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Gladiator style fight to the death?

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