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Poll: Do you want Hossa signed?

View Poll Results: Do you want Hossa signed at rumoured 9yr/81Million?
Yes! Bring it on! 103 71.03%
No, too much of a contract 42 28.97%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-02-2008, 09:41 AM
  #26
hillbillypriest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rydlar View Post
I vote no... and that's only because of contract length. My fear is that if the Canadian dollar weakens, the salary cap won't continue to rise as it has been the past couple of seasons. This would leave us in a difficult situation with Gags & Cogs in the coming seasons.

My plan A would lean towards a Jagr or Demitra for 2-3 seasons.. assuming Hossa is only looking for the long term.
I'm on this wavelength too...

The salary cap is very soon going to start rising slower than salaries have been rising, and a day of reckoning is coming IMO. I'm particularly concerned that offer sheets are going to be common place because the taboo is gone and because compensation levels are becoming less and less relevant. So if the Oilers are barely have cap space to at least threaten to match offers, the prospect pool could be thinned out pretty quickly.

I vote no. Emphatically.

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07-02-2008, 09:43 AM
  #27
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I want to see the Oilers have the best possible players on our roster so YES from me.

Whatever the money/cap situation is I am sure Lowe and Katz have that sorted already, let them worry about that.

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Old
07-02-2008, 09:45 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by jsho View Post
Where did this 9 years at 81 million come from? Last I heard was at around 11pm last night from Stauffer that it was the 7 year deal in the range of 60-63 million. The ONLY place Ive seen the 9 years is from Eklund. So...yeah its ****ing Eklund.
Ya the guy who stated on the 30th that Sundin was an e5 to sign yesterday. **** the guy can't even get **** like that right, what a moron. Anyhow according to Eklund Hossa's camp is supposed to make their decision before 1PM ET. Possibly be in time for the Katz conference call. What a hell of a way to become the new owner.

Anyhow, yes to Hossa please. 9 years might be too long, but I believe management will have the vision going forward to dump Hossa down the road before it gets toa point where there can't. That is of course if he is not playing like a 9 million dollar player in 7 or so years.

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07-02-2008, 09:59 AM
  #29
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Not worth it, but it would mean a lot to the organization to get him I think.

Chances are that if he is signed, he won't play out his contract here. He's not the guy that puts you over the top, not like Pronger was.

Another top flight D man would be a much better use of the cap space in my opinion.

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07-02-2008, 10:04 AM
  #30
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After reading this, I totally understand why Lowe and Katz are pursuing Hossa so hard:

http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...d3040ee49e&p=2

That's not to say I totally agree, I still think over paying sends the wrong message. But, I get it. They're certainly not crazy, and I understand that signing Hossa is bigger than just having Hossa on the team.

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07-02-2008, 10:09 AM
  #31
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I voted no as well. I would LOVE Hossa here, but 9 for 9 is too high and for too long. If we signed Hossa for that contract then what does it matter that we are sending a message out to other future UFA's? We won't have the cap space to sign them.

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07-02-2008, 10:16 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by eastcoasteh View Post
At nine milllion over 9 years, what do you think?
I'd rather have Jagr at 6 million over 3 years

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07-02-2008, 10:17 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c4fn8d View Post
I voted no as well. I would LOVE Hossa here, but 9 for 9 is too high and for too long. If we signed Hossa for that contract then what does it matter that we are sending a message out to other future UFA's? We won't have the cap space to sign them.
Nail on the head. I don't get what the need is to send any kind of message either. If this is what's motivating Katz to push so hard, I guess I applaud his enthusiasm and commitment, but if you've got no capspace, you're out of business anyway.

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07-02-2008, 10:18 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypriest View Post
I'm on this wavelength too...

The salary cap is very soon going to start rising slower than salaries have been rising, and a day of reckoning is coming IMO. I'm particularly concerned that offer sheets are going to be common place because the taboo is gone and because compensation levels are becoming less and less relevant. So if the Oilers are barely have cap space to at least threaten to match offers, the prospect pool could be thinned out pretty quickly.

I vote no. Emphatically.
I voted yes, although I not sure about the 9 year contract.

For me, I think this signing is essential in terms of getting a star in the Oilers organization. As far as the salary cap goes, I am not so sure that it will decrease or grow slower. I mean, yes the CDN dollar is very good, but I find it funny that it still goes up regardless of the fact that alot of US markets are struggling with attendance, the NHL still doesn't have a major TV deal, etc...I understand that the CDN has an impact, but I doubt it's the main reason why it grew from $39M to $56M in what 3 years? Does the CDN really have that much pull?

Furthermore, with the addition of Rick Olcyck, the Oilers seem to have a grasp on the salary cap strategy. I am sure they have considered both the current environment and potential future cap environment. I may be naive in my thinking but I refuse to believe that Katz is walking into a situation that could potentially screw his organization in 3 or 4 years.

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07-02-2008, 10:19 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homesick View Post
I'd rather have Jagr at 6 million over 3 years


I'll agree with that.

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Old
07-02-2008, 10:19 AM
  #36
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Its not my money, if Hossa helps win a cup there would be about 9M a year in jersey sales.

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Old
07-02-2008, 10:20 AM
  #37
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Too much for too long. Cap space needed for re-signing players. Like someone else said, Jagr @6 for a couple of years is a better investment imho. Even Demitra for a couple of years would be alright.. But 9 mil could be used in better ways.

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07-02-2008, 10:22 AM
  #38
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If Hemsky is traded I'm ok with it but we don't need Hemsky on the 2nd line with his pricetag and I don't think they could play together even if one can swap sides.

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07-02-2008, 10:27 AM
  #39
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It's a lot of contract but we haven't had a guy that can legitimately get 100pts in a long long time. Make it happen and we'll work out the rest later.

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07-02-2008, 10:29 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
If Hemsky is traded I'm ok with it but we don't need Hemsky on the 2nd line with his pricetag and I don't think they could play together even if one can swap sides.


He is cheap now.

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Old
07-02-2008, 10:29 AM
  #41
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Demitra's a bum compared to Jagr and Hossa. Don't even put his name in these conversations.

I don't buy that Jagr is just willing to be sloppy seconds to Hossa if this falls through. People that think he'd come here for only 6 when he's getting double the offer in Russia and Sundin is getting offered 10 million are high.

I'm sure he'd rather go back to Pittsburgh for a couple of years for 6 or 7 as opposed to come here. Jagr'd want Hossa money to come here too. But the term would be much less.

We strike while the iron is hot. Look at what Pittsburgh gave up just to have him for months? We could sign him now and not have to deal any players for him. I say do it. Hossa's only 29.

7 years-63 million=sold. My only worry is that he's going to take less than what he was offered here from Montreal or Pittsburgh and everyone will start the whole "no one wants to play in Edmonton" crap again.

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07-02-2008, 10:30 AM
  #42
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I want Hossa but not at the rumored cost financially or if it means Nilsson is on his way out. I will reserve judgement until after I see the whole plan. I am find with 8 million and dropping a combo of Pisani, Rollie, Staios.

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07-02-2008, 10:41 AM
  #43
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I said yes, for three very distinct reasons. Number one, the future will never come. All these posters that are worried about Gagner etc. the simple fact is that the players in question may not stay in Edmonton for their own personal reasons. They have to play here now, in a year or two, they may choose not to by signing a HUGE RFA sheet that the Oilers couldn't match, or may not want to, regardless of signing Hossa or not.

Secondly, the Oilers have a reputation of not landing the big fish, or being able to keep him. This needs to change, to get other players to come here, and at a discount like Detroit is able to do. I am not saying the Oilers would want to, at this point, but you never know. Katz understands that players are their own little enterprises, and there are usually alot more factors to signing that just the money. Cold weather is a negative, so the Oilers need to create alot more positives. This gives us a legitimate superstar, not, a close to, or almost, or may become. How many players signed with Detroit just to be able to play with Yzerman, or other vets that have respect?

Thirdly, IF the Oilers are going to win a cup, it will have to come with a new attitude. The old attitude of being frugal, and stingy, especially come contract time only made it harder to keep the players you have, and sign important new ones. By spending, you show you want to win, seriously. Money talks, and bull**** walks. So far, since Gretzky has left, thats all superstars have done to the Oil...... walked. The Oilers are committed to winning now, and they don't just say that to the fans. Winning comes at a price, are the Oilers, the fans and the city willing to pay that price? Apparently, Katz is.......

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07-02-2008, 10:58 AM
  #44
hillbillypriest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanner39 View Post
I voted yes, although I not sure about the 9 year contract.

For me, I think this signing is essential in terms of getting a star in the Oilers organization. As far as the salary cap goes, I am not so sure that it will decrease or grow slower. I mean, yes the CDN dollar is very good, but I find it funny that it still goes up regardless of the fact that alot of US markets are struggling with attendance, the NHL still doesn't have a major TV deal, etc...I understand that the CDN has an impact, but I doubt it's the main reason why it grew from $39M to $56M in what 3 years? Does the CDN really have that much pull?

Furthermore, with the addition of Rick Olcyck, the Oilers seem to have a grasp on the salary cap strategy. I am sure they have considered both the current environment and potential future cap environment. I may be naive in my thinking but I refuse to believe that Katz is walking into a situation that could potentially screw his organization in 3 or 4 years.
In addition to growth of the business and general inflation (e.g. ticket price increases), the growth from $39 m to $56.7 m has been the product of some distinct, and in some cases irreproducible factors including:
- that the original cap did not reflect a reasonable baseline revenue estimate
- that the NHLPA lost Saskin, and as a result waived their original consent to not automatically increase escrow formulas by 5%. (While the 5% escalator is now in place, and expected to be on a go forward basis, in terms of growth, it was a one-time event).
- that the Canadian dollar rose to near parity.
- that the CBA formula increases the players percentage share with revenue growth (but only to a limit).

Although there will be other "pie-expanding" things that can be done to increase revenue, when you take these "exogenous" factors into account, I think there's serious potential that the rate of cap growth will slow down, and even some risk of a pull back if the Canadian dollar were ever to fall back away from parity.

Conversely, while the cap just when up 12.7%, the rate of salary increase is catching up quickly and is threatening to overtake. For example, the increase in average league salary between 06/07 and 08/09 can be measured by comparing the levels of year to year increase in the RFA compensation schedule band levels. This was 11.6%, but did not include either last summer's big extensions (such as Vishnovsky's) or the big dollars being thrown at UFA yesterday, or the much higher dollars being given to RFAs after Penner/Vanek for contracts that start next year (e.g. Getzlaff, Perry, Richards, Carter, Green....).

Basically, I'm worried that salary increases have their own momentum, because they determine what next year's free agents thing they deserve, and many of them will get similar if not better increases, so I'm really worried that even if the cap keeps going up, if it starts to go up slower, there will be a serious capspace crunch in a couple of years, and potentially a vastly different player marketplace. If you overpay, but the crunch doesn't happen for a few years, you may still have a player under contract at below market. However, when you're talking about a contract that's in the region of 9 million, you're talking serious money any way you slice it. I don't forsee any day when 9 million will seem "cheap", particularly if the term is long and Hossa has longer teeth.

That having been said, I take your point that the Oilers probably have a cap management strategy to go along with their dance with Hossa. It certainly does seem out of character that the Oilers of all teams would be reckless about the cap implications. After all - they apparently let Glencross slip away because they've had their eyes on the "pennies". I guess I need to have some faith, but the numbers being thrown about for one player for that long have me very anxious.

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Old
07-02-2008, 11:06 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by hillbillypriest View Post
I'm on this wavelength too...

The salary cap is very soon going to start rising slower than salaries have been rising, and a day of reckoning is coming IMO. I'm particularly concerned that offer sheets are going to be common place because the taboo is gone and because compensation levels are becoming less and less relevant. So if the Oilers are barely have cap space to at least threaten to match offers, the prospect pool could be thinned out pretty quickly.
Nice posts here. I voted no because of locked in salary considerations too, but my more pressing concern was using up the big contract (and how many can you have?) on Hossa. Hossa is awesome, don't get me wrong. Just not quite awesome enough to take on the future risks. But only by a slim margin. I mean, given what Spezza got, Hossa at 9 is pretty fine. But 9 years, or even 7 years? Yeah, that could bind the future badly. Given the costs of players now, 7 for 9 would be low enough risk, probably.

That said, if they can seriously front load it...maybe. Is it possible to pay the guy 15 mil in each of the first two years?

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Old
07-02-2008, 11:40 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hillbillypriest View Post
In addition to growth of the business and general inflation (e.g. ticket price increases), the growth from $39 m to $56.7 m has been the product of some distinct, and in some cases irreproducible factors including:
- that the original cap did not reflect a reasonable baseline revenue estimate
- that the NHLPA lost Saskin, and as a result waived their original consent to not automatically increase escrow formulas by 5%. (While the 5% escalator is now in place, and expected to be on a go forward basis, in terms of growth, it was a one-time event).
- that the Canadian dollar rose to near parity.
- that the CBA formula increases the players percentage share with revenue growth (but only to a limit).

Although there will be other "pie-expanding" things that can be done to increase revenue, when you take these "exogenous" factors into account, I think there's serious potential that the rate of cap growth will slow down, and even some risk of a pull back if the Canadian dollar were ever to fall back away from parity.

Conversely, while the cap just when up 12.7%, the rate of salary increase is catching up quickly and is threatening to overtake. For example, the increase in average league salary between 06/07 and 08/09 can be measured by comparing the levels of year to year increase in the RFA compensation schedule band levels. This was 11.6%, but did not include either last summer's big extensions (such as Vishnovsky's) or the big dollars being thrown at UFA yesterday, or the much higher dollars being given to RFAs after Penner/Vanek for contracts that start next year (e.g. Getzlaff, Perry, Richards, Carter, Green....).

Basically, I'm worried that salary increases have their own momentum, because they determine what next year's free agents thing they deserve, and many of them will get similar if not better increases, so I'm really worried that even if the cap keeps going up, if it starts to go up slower, there will be a serious capspace crunch in a couple of years, and potentially a vastly different player marketplace. If you overpay, but the crunch doesn't happen for a few years, you may still have a player under contract at below market. However, when you're talking about a contract that's in the region of 9 million, you're talking serious money any way you slice it. I don't forsee any day when 9 million will seem "cheap", particularly if the term is long and Hossa has longer teeth.

That having been said, I take your point that the Oilers probably have a cap management strategy to go along with their dance with Hossa. It certainly does seem out of character that the Oilers of all teams would be reckless about the cap implications. After all - they apparently let Glencross slip away because they've had their eyes on the "pennies". I guess I need to have some faith, but the numbers being thrown about for one player for that long have me very anxious.
Wow, good post HBP. That's good info concerning the cap.

What it boils down for me is that the OIlers lately have taken a few stands (Glencross like you mentioned) and they were not willing to budge with Pitkanen, and they did not want to overpay Stoll, etc...I'm pretty confident that they've covered their bases here and that if they have a chance to get a player of Hossa's caliber, they'll do what they can.

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Old
07-02-2008, 11:49 AM
  #47
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1year deal from red wings?

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07-02-2008, 11:50 AM
  #48
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Wings Sign Hossa

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07-02-2008, 12:36 PM
  #49
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I wonder how many "yes" voters are now saying "I'm glad we didnt sign him"

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