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We won't be better last year

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Old
07-03-2008, 12:13 AM
  #1
Beacon
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We won't be better last year

I don't see how we'll be better next year than last.

Let's presume that we'll re-sign Jagr and Mara or someone comparable because otherwise we'll probably be worse than next year.

On defense we'll have Redden replacing Tyutin & Malik, which should be a nice improvement.

On offense, Voros is not as good as Avery and Fritsche is not as good as Shanny, while Zherdev is probably somewhat better than Straka.

So while defense is better, offense is likely to be somewhat worse.

Now, I get that long term Fritsche and Zherdev are far, far more valuable than Shanny and Straka. Obviously we just got two long-term assets we didn't have before. But I'm just talking about next year.

If we re-sign JJ and Mara, we'll be about the same as last year, maybe a little better, younger and fresher. Will that be enough to get us out of the second round? Probably not. Not unless we stumble onto another team that doesn't deserve to be out of the second round.

I really don't see us competing for the Cup in the 2009 playoffs.

If we don't sign JJ and Mara, then we'll likely be worse than last year, barely making the playoffs and then getting knocked out in 5 games.

Long-term we are looking much better today than 48 hours ago. Short-term, not so much.

P.S. The one thing that can change it are the kids. If Anisimov AND Korps turn into this year's Dubinsky, we'll certainly be better than last year, especially if Prucha becomes a second line quality player again. Having these 3 turn into second-liners would give us so much depth and 2-way firepower that we'll likely become the best team in the East.

P.P.S. The title should've been "better THAN last year".


Last edited by Beacon: 07-03-2008 at 10:25 AM.
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Old
07-03-2008, 12:15 AM
  #2
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Still to early to tell.

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07-03-2008, 12:15 AM
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Carlos Ranger
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Let's wait until we have a complete roster before we make that call? let alone play a game?

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Old
07-03-2008, 12:17 AM
  #4
FutureGM97
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these threads really need to stop popping up

calm down and wait until at least the rangers cap space is all but taken up.

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Old
07-03-2008, 12:17 AM
  #5
Burlington Bomb 26
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didnt Montreal get 1st seed last season and they were predicted for Stamkos. Anything can happen.

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Old
07-03-2008, 12:19 AM
  #6
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sather is still working out the plan...he's going to free up more space...be able to sign jagr + someone else + trades.

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Old
07-03-2008, 12:35 AM
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Sigh....it's July 3rd.

I can guarantee the opening day roster won't look like it currently does. Just 24 hours ago I was a little concerned about our offense, I won't lie. Then we got Zherdev and I felt better. And there will be other pieces added.

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Old
07-03-2008, 12:38 AM
  #8
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If things remain the same, then yeah we won't be as good and might even have trouble making the play-offs.

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Old
07-03-2008, 12:40 AM
  #9
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I think it's too early to tell how well this team is doing. Somehow I get this feeling the Rangers will be under the radar a bit and might surprise.

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07-03-2008, 12:44 AM
  #10
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honestly, i think this team right now is bette rthan last years.....

looking at the depth charts:

center:
gomez
drury
dubinsky
anisimov
betts

wingers:
zherdev
dawes
fritsche
korpikoski
vorros
callahan
sjostrom
rissmiller
byers
moore
orr
hollweg

defense:
redden
rozsival
staal
girardi
potter



i would say the team is at least even with last year....plus they got significantly younger, faster and tougher....love the signings/trades up to now

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07-03-2008, 01:54 AM
  #11
Gardner McKay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynHockey99 View Post
I don't see how we'll be better next year than last.

Let's presume that we'll re-sign Jagr and Mara or someone comparable because otherwise we'll probably be worse than next year.

On defense we'll have Redden replacing Malik, which should be a nice improvement.

On offense, Voros is not as good as Avery and Fritsche is not as good as Shanny, while Zherdev is probably somewhat better than Straka.

So while defense is better, offense is likely to be somewhat worse.

Now, I get that long term Fritsche and Zherdev are far, far more valuable than Shanny and Straka. Obviously we just got two long-term assets we didn't have before. But I'm just talking about next year.

If we re-sign JJ and Mara, we'll be about the same as last year, maybe a little better, younger and fresher. Will that be enough to get us out of the second round? Probably not. Not unless we stumble onto another team that doesn't deserve to be out of the second round.

I really don't see us competing for the Cup in the 2009 playoffs.

If we don't sign JJ and Mara, then we'll likely be worse than last year, barely making the playoffs and then getting knocked out in 5 games.

Long-term we are looking much better today than 48 hours ago. Short-term, not so much.

P.S. The one thing that can change it are the kids. If Anisimov AND Korps turn into this year's Dubinsky, we'll certainly be better than last year, especially if Prucha becomes a second line quality player again. Having these 3 turn into second-liners would give us so much depth and 2-way firepower that we'll likely become the best team in the East.

P.P.S. The title should've been "better THAN last year".
Listen, I will pay you whatever you want for some of what you are smoking because I dont see how you can manage to say that.

It looks like Jagermeister is not coming back. So this is no longer JJ's team where things have to be done JJ's way.

Don't feed me that garbage B.S. about JJ buying into Renneys system either. Dont think for a second that Jagrs lack of scoring had nothing to do with him not playing his best hockey but the fact of him pouting because he misses Nylander a bit.

Coaching staff does not have to put up with that any more and can now concentrate on what is best for the New York Rangers, Not the New York Jagrs. Because obviously last year shows that its JJs way or the highway.

Now, here is why we WILL be better:

1. Like I said, Jagrs chances are coming back seem to be slim.

2. Zherdev has a premium set up man in Gomez.

3. Dubinsky, Callahan, Dawes are all a year older and more
experienced and should put up better numbers.

4. Our defense despite the loss of toots is still 3x better then it was last year. Whether it be Rozy and Redden or Staal and Redden we have a LEGIT shut down pair who can and will play against any teams top guns night in and night out.

5. No more Grandfather Shannahan and his walker on the ice. It was painful to watch.

6.WE NOW HAVE A LEGITIMATE PP QB pairing. Rozy and Redden on the blue line just upped the ante no matter who else is on the team.

7. Korpikoski and Anisimov potentially make their debuts this year, while subtracting Avery and Hollweg, I think they will exceed the offense that Avery and hollweg put up.

8. Sanguenetti could potentially make the team out of camp giving us potentially one of the top defensive crews in the league as far as fire power goes. Not saying Sangs will light the lamp his first year however he will certaintly be a help.

9. In its self, no more Ryan Hollweg. We now have one with a bit more talent in Voros, who is bigger.

10. I could keep going if you wish.

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07-03-2008, 02:16 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Dubinsky View Post
Listen, I will pay you whatever you want for some of what you are smoking because I dont see how you can manage to say that.

It looks like Jagermeister is not coming back. So this is no longer JJ's team where things have to be done JJ's way.

Don't feed me that garbage B.S. about JJ buying into Renneys system either. Dont think for a second that Jagrs lack of scoring had nothing to do with him not playing his best hockey but the fact of him pouting because he misses Nylander a bit.

Coaching staff does not have to put up with that any more and can now concentrate on what is best for the New York Rangers, Not the New York Jagrs. Because obviously last year shows that its JJs way or the highway.

Now, here is why we WILL be better:

1. Like I said, Jagrs chances are coming back seem to be slim.

2. Zherdev has a premium set up man in Gomez.

3. Dubinsky, Callahan, Dawes are all a year older and more
experienced and should put up better numbers.

4. Our defense despite the loss of toots is still 3x better then it was last year. Whether it be Rozy and Redden or Staal and Redden we have a LEGIT shut down pair who can and will play against any teams top guns night in and night out.

5. No more Grandfather Shannahan and his walker on the ice. It was painful to watch.

6.WE NOW HAVE A LEGITIMATE PP QB pairing. Rozy and Redden on the blue line just upped the ante no matter who else is on the team.

7. Korpikoski and Anisimov potentially make their debuts this year, while subtracting Avery and Hollweg, I think they will exceed the offense that Avery and hollweg put up.

8. Sanguenetti could potentially make the team out of camp giving us potentially one of the top defensive crews in the league as far as fire power goes. Not saying Sangs will light the lamp his first year however he will certaintly be a help.

9. In its self, no more Ryan Hollweg. We now have one with a bit more talent in Voros, who is bigger.

10. I could keep going if you wish.
You use the word potentially a lot because you don't know what is going to happen. How do you know Zherdev plays with Gomer? You think all three of Dubinsky, Dawes, and Cally improve? Ever hear of a sophmore slump? The chance of Sanguenetti making this team isn't very likely and he will most likely be in Hardford.

I don't know if removing Tyutin and adding Redden make the D 3X better either.

Oh and JJ will be back.

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Old
07-03-2008, 02:36 AM
  #13
hpNYR
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we are very weak on the wing...to the point where satan should be considered

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Old
07-03-2008, 05:27 AM
  #14
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This team....

is not better than last year's team. It still has some moves left in it. I like the idea of Zherdev and Fritsche - I was hoping, though, that Zherdev would be a different player though - but like the idea. The question is, will the next new Ranger be a UFA signing, or acquired via a trade (Prucha's still here).

Why is this team no better than last season? I don't think the defense is much improved.The PP may be better, but someone will still have to bury chances, and who will be the right winger on the top two lines? Finally,is there a top 6 forward who can go in there, win battles and muck it up? Is there any offensive weapon that oppositions will fear?

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Old
07-03-2008, 05:41 AM
  #15
Smashley
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I agree, not a good feeling. If JJ doesnt come back, it will be a year to get our game together and not pass-pass-pass on the pp.

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Old
07-03-2008, 06:26 AM
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Couple things:

Our NHL defensemen, while good, need some depth. I know we just traded away that depth, but you have to do that sometimes, and in no way am I upset by losing Tyutin. Maybe I didn't appreciate him as much as some of you did, but to me, he wasn't ever going to be as good as we hoped. Not too much offense, and it wasn't like he was Scott Stevens or Chris Chelios on the back end. He was a nice player, but far from replaceable. I'd love to see a lesser, not big name Dman get signed. I thought Jason Smith was a good name earlier, but I doubt he's going to hop to a division rival unless we pay him off, which I don't think we're in position to do. I'd like a steady guy like maybe Keith Carney, or as silly as it sounds, do you think Chelios might be interested? Nobody has more experience than him, he could play the 6 spot in his sleep, and being that he literally has played more games than our entire d corps combined, maybe they could learn a thing or two from him. I doubt he'd command a ton of money and I doubt he's looking for a long term deal. Kind of a player/coach role?
We could use one more top 6 guy as you have pointed out. I got this sneaking suspicion that our guy isn't coming from anywhere else, but is actually returning. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Sather sign Straka or Shanahan. I know Shanny was tough to watch at times last year, and know Straka was hurt alot. But I don't see who else is out there for free and isn't looking for a payday. Satan, IIRC was a guy they moved from Buffalo because he was selfish and bad in the lockerroom. I really don't want to go there. Who's left? Geoff Sanderson? I don't think so...

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Old
07-03-2008, 06:31 AM
  #17
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Fletch.....

I think the defense has improved, however, you can't say that yet because we're still missing two. So, out of the water that conversation must go until further notice......

While there are still holes to fill, I find it hard to believe that you can say plainly that we won't have a better season than last years. You mention Shanahan, Straka, and Jagr production totals... however the things Shanahan, Straka, and Jagr did to hurt the team will be evened out by the things the rookies can do.

Granted, these 3 players are hard to replace, Straka is all hussle, Jagr's a freight train out there on the puck, and Shanahan is a SO specialist with an easy 20 goal season. However, Shanahan was extremely slow, and slowed down the speed of our overall game. His shots from the half boards after gaining the zone that would go wide and all the way around killed any and all attack chance we had at that moment. These are things that, when the speed is upgraded throughout the team, are noticeable. Without Shanahan the overall excitement level will increase because I don't think we have any "slow" players, per say....

With young guys coming up, and young guys playing well (Korpikoski, Dubinsky, Callahan, Dawes...) on the forward sign of things, you can't pinpoint point production from them but you know that they are going to do pretty good.

I think the Zherdev trade only made this team better. This is the kind of guy fans like to watch. He may not pot 40 goals, he may not even pot 30, but he's the kind of dangler who makes the fans get up out of their seat and say "how the hell did he do that?"

Do we have a realistic chance at a Stanley Cup in 09? Perhaps, we're still not done with our roster. The 8-ball leans more toward unlikely, but is that such a big deal? Sure it's everyones goal to win but you have to be a realist at times and last year I didn't think we had any more of a chance than I think we do right now with unsigned forwards and defensemen.

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Old
07-03-2008, 06:53 AM
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y are all rangers fans looking for a big superstar to save the team. keep the young players in, and give them a chance. rangers have 6 superstars and went just far in the plaoffs as the year before with less superstars. if we lose jj it's not the end of the season. bring up the youth. all we hear about about is our farm team. sign dawes, let prucha, mara, mailk, hollweg--go!!!!

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07-03-2008, 07:07 AM
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We may not be better, but at least we should have a decent look at our future. As Slats said in his comments last night, he's looking to get the long-term team chemistry working. You don't do that by overpaying for 1 - 3 year deals.

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07-03-2008, 08:19 AM
  #20
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Honestly, it's because of talk like this that I stay away from the boards between the cup and preseason...

Except right now...

So don't bother pointing that out.

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07-03-2008, 08:30 AM
  #21
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Can we stop with all this "We won't be as good as last year until we bring Jagr back!" nonsense?

Is this team as good as last year? Well on paper, probably not. But until you see the team on the ice for 10-15 games and all of the final pieces are in place, you have no clue how good the team will be.

Frankly, the team took a huge step in the right direction yesterday with the Zherdev trade. He is that flashy, dynamic player that The Garden loves. He's going to be a hell of a lot of fun to watch, and unless he decides to go to Russia, you can bet he'll be a core member of our team for a long time.

Who knows what else Slats has up his sleeve? Obviously he wanted Orpik, but that didn't pan out. Does he have a backup plan? He probably has 3 or 4 that we haven't even considered as fans.

So please, stop claiming the sky is falling just because you don't like the moves he's making so far. It's only been two days for cryin out loud.

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07-03-2008, 08:36 AM
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Shock horror....You have to hope for young players to improve as the years go by.

Staal, Dawes, Dubi, Girardi you have to expect them all to improve and in turn. Making us a better team.


The off-season always finds a way to turn good signings into negativity.

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07-03-2008, 08:37 AM
  #23
GAGLine
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I'm fine taking 1 step back next year if it means taking 2 or 3 steps forward the following year. And don't forget to add Korp, Byers and Potter to the mix. At least one or two of them should make the team.

As much as I'd like to have Jagr back, there's a part of me that is happy to move on. It's gonna happen at some point anyway, so it might as well be now.

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07-03-2008, 08:41 AM
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There's still time.

Hey, for those who have been calling for the Rangers to go young, you've got.

Sather, on MSG NY, said that the team as it was was not going to win a Cup. And I think he's right. Time to go in another direction. And instead of going the typical NYR direction of bringing in vets for a last-gasp chance at it, they're going younger.

Of course they could sign Sundin, Jagr and Shanahan today....

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07-03-2008, 08:56 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
is not better than last year's team. It still has some moves left in it. I like the idea of Zherdev and Fritsche - I was hoping, though, that Zherdev would be a different player though - but like the idea. The question is, will the next new Ranger be a UFA signing, or acquired via a trade (Prucha's still here).

Why is this team no better than last season? I don't think the defense is much improved.The PP may be better, but someone will still have to bury chances, and who will be the right winger on the top two lines? Finally,is there a top 6 forward who can go in there, win battles and muck it up? Is there any offensive weapon that oppositions will fear?
Our defense was pretty good last year. Even if you want to call Redden/Tyutin a wash in terms of defensive play, he is an upgrade for the PP as you've noted. And Rosy should be 100% healthy, which he wasn't for the 2nd half last year.

On the offensive side, I think you are underestimating what other players will be able to do with increased ice time. You don't think other teams might fear a line with Gomez and Zherdev on it?

There's obviously still some moves to be made in any case, so let's see how it plays out.

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