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Speculation: Jagr is gone

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Old
07-03-2008, 07:48 AM
  #26
Ian
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Theres plenty of things I don't like about this. Again we get a MAJOR overhaul of the roster -- it happends every year. Its impossible to build a well coached team, with high ambitions, if you change the roster every year. Thats the old NHL approch, in the game today with such advance systems and speed and tempo and what not, it takes 2-3 years for players to develop chemistry with each other. We never leaves like a platform behind from one year to the other -- we constantly change enough to have to start from scratch every year. Slats don't get that -- he is just in too much of a hurry building this team -- that might have worked in the 80's but its not the best approch now. Second, Demitra, or Näslund, or whoever we get will defenitly get a 3-4 year deal... None of them are ideal or fits in in what we are trying to build -- but in 2012 we will still have them on basically. Thats the big advantage with JJ or Sundin -- they would have been gone after 2 seasons, that would have given Slats& Renney a bridge to build a real platform, and then add a NUKE when JJ bolted 2 years from now. Now everything is half-assed again by Slats. Don't like it at all.
Just to comment on what you are talking about, say Sather signs Williams and Kalinin to round out the roster, maybe adding 1-2 other guys in the process. This entire team will be under 30, besides Drury and Redden (both 31). You potentially are looking at fielding a lineup that realistically could the same 15 guys or so for the next 5-10 years, isn't that exactly what you want them to do, to build that platform?

If they announced Jagr's signing tomorrow, I certainly wouldn't be unhappy and would love to have him on the team next year, but wouldn't that go along with what you think they are doing wrong? Rather then let the young guys take the reigns, they are still trying to ride another year out of the older guys, who won't be with the team in 2 years or so?

It's a pretty risky move for Sather, but I think if your going to commit to the process of building a sort of "dynasty" of a team in the sense where you are essentially fielding the same roster for 5-10 years, this is the year you have to do it, regardless if you think doing so might force you to miss the playoffs.

I mean look at this potential lineup, with age/contract years added:
Drury(31/4)-Gomez(28/6)-Zherdev(23/1)
Dawes(23/1)-Dubi(22/1)-Williams(28/?)
Korpikoski(21/1)-Fritsche(22/?)-Callahan(23/1)
Voros(27/3)-Betts(28/1)-Byers(23-1)

Redden(31/6)-Staal(21/2)
Rozy(29/4)-Girardi(24/2)
Sangs(20/3)-Kalinin(27/?)

Lundy(26/6)
Vally(30/1)

Some other guys for roster swaps/scratches/etc: Anisimov(20/3), Potter(24/1), Pyatt(21/2), Shoe (25/1).

Obviously those are just a bit of mock lines that probably won't be used, but it's more to showcase the players themselves then the utilization of said players.

It's obviously a very valid argument to say fielding a team of this sorts would have a better chance at getting Tavares then a cup, but the same can be said to signing Jagr and some depth forward, does that really put us in cup contention either? Obviously putting the team in the hands of players like Naslund and Jagr this year would be a safer bet, but when they ultimately leave in 2 years, does that put us in worse or better shape then it would be to do something like this?


Last edited by Ian: 07-03-2008 at 08:32 AM.
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07-03-2008, 08:02 AM
  #27
HAPPY HOUR
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Why do so many insist that either Slats wants a player or he doesn't. It's not that black and white.

He sets a players value that he thinks is reasonable and then probably sets an absolute max that he would offer a player. We all know this.

He wants Avery back at reportedly 3 mill per, (which if I remember correctly was the # that most HF posters thought was the highest the Rangers should go.

Then offered JJ 1yr at 6 million.

How is that not wanting a player? You have to draw a line somewhere. Even the "evil empire" aka the NY Rangers can't to every player especially when it's your captain is doing this .


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07-03-2008, 08:11 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by _AC_ View Post
Again, i'm definitley not happy with the top 6 wingers we're going with, if it is really set in stone. I was hoping atleast for Jagr. Just Shannahan, who I wouldn't be shocked if he is re-signed doesn't cut it either..

I guess we'll see. But bye bye Jags is looking likely.
I do think if Jagr leaves it stinks BUT it may be time to turn a new leaf...............They are going to go after Demitra and maybe another Forward now.....SO u will not have to worry about the top 6 as I feel it will be solid still just younger

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07-03-2008, 08:14 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
He is saying that the team without Jagr, is basically what he and Drury came here to lead. There is no way he talks like that if JJ is comming back.
This makes Gomez seem like an ahole to me. Gomez is being paid as an elite player, which he is not. Drury is a complementary player who is clutch. Neither has near the abilities of Jagr, even the present day elderly Jagr.

If Jagr doesn't return and the Rangers don't become a powerhouse, it will be interesting to see if Gomez and Drury take the blame publicly. I doubt they will. It's put up or shut up time for both of them.

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07-03-2008, 08:18 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by bleedrngrblue View Post
Unless they have another TOP forward who can fill Jagr's very large skates, they better re sign him! There are not alot of players who can fill his skill set on the ice, and I don't want a team depending on GOMEZ and DRURY for their offense! Jagr had a BAD season last year and still led the team in scoring, and was always out there against the other teams top defensive line, freeing up players like GOMEZ to do their thing! Without Jagr, this teams offense is even worse than it was last season! It's great they got younger...but they are close to getting STUPID with this decision! Keep Jagr for AT LEAST the next season to help get the transition of power right. ZHerdev and Cheraponov need some mentoring.....who better than Jagr to show them the way.
It is not the same but what if they can now fit in Mieittenen and Demitra.............I think the team is deeper, faster and overall better

We just all want Jagr to come back because it is well Jagr............I hope he comes back but I am confident they will be fine without him too...........Gomez, Drury , Redden..........those are our leaders now

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07-03-2008, 08:21 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Majoritystorm View Post
I'm so pissed at Gomez for saying that. How can you have such a brain fart and say that knowing the guy could still theoretically resign? It seems these guys don't want Jagr around. Well Drury and Gomez better put the same points that Jagr did between them. And then some if they are going to start talking ****. Because last year they couldn't do so.
Yes I don´t understand it too. It is such a STUPID comment from Gomer. It sounds like they were waiting till the "old" man goes to the aged-persons home. I am really looking forward to see if they are going to fill JJ hole well. Right now it seems that they feel pretty confident.

I am big JJ fan but the more I think about it the more it seems to me that it is better for NYR to be without JJ and for JJ to be in another team in NHL.

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07-03-2008, 08:22 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
It is not the same but what if they can now fit in Mieittenen and Demitra.............I think the team is deeper, faster and overall better

We just all want Jagr to come back because it is well Jagr............I hope he comes back but I am confident they will be fine without him too...........Gomez, Drury , Redden..........those are our leaders now
plus 1

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07-03-2008, 08:31 AM
  #33
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I don't get these comments. By many accounts, Jagr "mailed it in" for the first 2/3 of the regular season. Despite that, he still led the team in points and was second in +/-. He was by far the Rangers' best player down the stretch.

IMO, Jagr showed during the last ~20 games and in the playoffs that Drury and Gomez aren't in his league, skill-wise. In those last 20 games and in the playoffs, I thought Jagr was just as good as Crosby / Malkin. I don't see how the Rangers give that up and expect to be a better team.

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07-03-2008, 08:33 AM
  #34
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Looks like the Rangers are asking Zherdev to take over for Jagr.As good as Zherdev is ,I dont see this happening.Jagr can carry a couple of guys on his back and make a play and zherdev doesent enjoy being hit.

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07-03-2008, 08:38 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majoritystorm View Post
I'm so pissed at Gomez for saying that. How can you have such a brain fart and say that knowing the guy could still theoretically resign?
What if the question was, "Scott, could you talk about what the team will be like if Jagr does not come back?"

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07-03-2008, 08:47 AM
  #36
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Quote:
"It's going to be on Chris and me now, and that's what we wanted when we came to New York," Gomez said
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07032008...ore_118284.htm

Now that sounds like a leader(s). They could complain about the direction the team is going. Instead they are going to step up.

Refreshing. Personally, I'm kind of excited about the direction this team is going in.

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07-03-2008, 08:50 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07032008...ore_118284.htm

Now that sounds like a leader(s). They could complain about the direction the team is going. Instead they are going to step up.

Refreshing. Personally, I'm kind of excited about the direction this team is going in.
You know what I am ok with it too.......Their is a plan B people.....they want a decision because they have FA waiting on this............let's say they get Demitra and Miettenen with the money saved

All of a sudden the team is deeper and younger

Demitra, Gomez, Zherdev
Dawes , Drury, Miettenen
Fritsche, Dubinsky, Callahan
Sjostrom, Betts, Rissmiller, Voros, Jamtin

Not to mention Orr, Hollweg and I would think Prucha goes for a D man

Am I forgetting someone

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07-03-2008, 08:53 AM
  #38
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I agree Chosen...

also, Gomez's statement is interesting, and that apparently Drury agrees with it is interesting also. Was there friction between Gomez, Drury and Jagr? I don't remember Gomez talking about how he should shoulder some blame for not meshing with Jagr, as he's doing in the event he doesn't mesh with Zherdev. I like to hear someone take charge - that's nice, but to say that's what he wanted all along (and basically saying thank goodness he's (Jagr) gone is interesting).

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07-03-2008, 08:53 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07032008...ore_118284.htm

Now that sounds like a leader(s). They could complain about the direction the team is going. Instead they are going to step up.

Refreshing. Personally, I'm kind of excited about the direction this team is going in.

Saying and doing are two completely different things Singin, and they do NOT have the SKILLS to replace Jagr's abilities on the ice! Not Zherdev either. Show me how they mitigate the loss of Jagr! Show mw how Zherdev doesn't get way too much pressure put on him in this scenario! Now if they are not going to pony up for Jagr, go get me Ilya Kovalchuk and we'll call it a wash.....other wise this team is in danger of stepping backwards even with the signings, which I happen to like!

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07-03-2008, 08:55 AM
  #40
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Swap Fritsche and Miettinen.

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07-03-2008, 08:56 AM
  #41
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that sucks as a devils fan i really have grown to hate him and i used to love him. Shows he was a true ranger....sorry guys in all seriousnesss we know what i s likr to lose someone special.....his name was scott


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07-03-2008, 08:56 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by bleedrngrblue View Post
Saying and doing are two completely different things Singin, and they do NOT have the SKILLS to replace Jagr's abilities on the ice! Not Zherdev either. Show me how they mitigate the loss of Jagr! Show mw how Zherdev doesn't get way too much pressure put on him in this scenario! Now if they are not going to pony up for Jagr, go get me Ilya Kovalchuk and we'll call it a wash.....other wise this team is in danger of stepping backwards even with the signings, which I happen to like!
It's not any one of their jobs to replace Jagr's production (which has been steadily declining). It's the team's job to.

Good this team might be without a legit superstar for the first time in a decade and Ranger fan's are in a panic.

As far as saying something and then doing something, I give you exibit A, Jaromir Jagr.

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07-03-2008, 08:57 AM
  #43
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Singn'..

I like the direction (which is at least a different direction). I'm not at all upset over losing Tyutin and am not complaining about the return. I think they're creating a younger and faster team for starters. They should be able to move the puck better too. But, is this team a lot softer than it was last season among the top 6 and top 4?At least with Jagr he gave linemate space and could wear down defensemen. That's an element still missing. It's a work in progress and it will be interesting seeing a more final piece. I think this team still loses to last year's team though and they currently are not in the top 8.

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07-03-2008, 08:58 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It's not any one of their jobs to replace Jagr's production (which has been steadily declining). It's the team's job to.

Good this team might be without a legit superstar for the first time in a decade and Ranger fan's are in a panic.

As far as saying something and then doing something, I give you exibit A, Jaromir Jagr.
I am not in Panic.........they are going to be deeper and younger , darn!!............bring in Miettenen and Demitra for 8 million combined and we are laughing...........Gomez ,Drury, Redden are your leaders now.........

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07-03-2008, 08:58 AM
  #45
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Jagr is my favourite NHL player by far but at this point, I think we have to say Goodbye to him...
He seems upset and betrayed.
If he comes back he won't be at 100%.
I think Demitra might be a better option.
but Jagr please sign in Russia, I don't want to see you on another NHL team.

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07-03-2008, 08:59 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by abev View Post
What if the question was, "Scott, could you talk about what the team will be like if Jagr does not come back?"
+1 It's all about context. Send me a tape with the quote and then I'll decide how I feel about it.

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07-03-2008, 08:59 AM
  #47
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Gomer has always been a stand up guy from the day he's made the team in 2000. The Devils have been saying that he wasn't carrying himself like a wide-eyed rookie and at the same time he wasn't cocky or disrespectful.

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07-03-2008, 08:59 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I like the direction (which is at least a different direction). I'm not at all upset over losing Tyutin and am not complaining about the return. I think they're creating a younger and faster team for starters. They should be able to move the puck better too. But, is this team a lot softer than it was last season among the top 6 and top 4?At least with Jagr he gave linemate space and could wear down defensemen. That's an element still missing. It's a work in progress and it will be interesting seeing a more final piece. I think this team still loses to last year's team though and they currently are not in the top 8.

Demitra, Miettenen added to go with Drury, Gomez, Zherdev and I have confidence in Dubinsky and Dawes to step it up.......plus alot of good young forwards on the other lines

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07-03-2008, 09:00 AM
  #49
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Time to move on.

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Old
07-03-2008, 09:02 AM
  #50
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think the rangers as a team will be solid this yrs with no jj.

it's not about jj. it's about the new york rangers. rangers will still be good without jj.

sign demitra and a d-man & lets get this season roling

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