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06-04-2004, 09:38 PM
  #1
theoilers
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Lorne Davis - for Guy F

More for Guy F:

Wondering the status of Lorne Davis for next season. I read an article about Davis last season in the National Post by Mark Spector and he said he has been scouting for over 30 years and more then 20 years with the Edmonton Oilers. Davis said he goes "year by year".

Will be be retiring this year or take a year off due to labout stoppage. I know Kevin P will leave the decision to him but with Gord Pell leaving after last season and Mancini gone and may be Davis, the Oilers will be in need of amateur scouts but I'm sure Lowe and Prendergast will hire scouts to replace Pell & Mancini after the labout stoppage is over.

I hope Davis remains and he is loyal and a great judge of talent.

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06-05-2004, 12:17 AM
  #2
Guy Flaming
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I haven't heard either way. I talk to Brad (his son) from time to time but all the scouts are in B.C. preparing for the draft. I'll be talking the team afterward the 10th and if I remember, I'll ask if there's any news for you.

I can tell you that they did a lot of scouting for the 2005 draft this past year because one of the things that will be affected by a prolonged stoppage next year is the budget for the scouting department. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are no additions to the staff until after the CBA gets rehashed.

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06-05-2004, 01:05 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
I haven't heard either way. I talk to Brad (his son) from time to time but all the scouts are in B.C. preparing for the draft. I'll be talking the team afterward the 10th and if I remember, I'll ask if there's any news for you.

I can tell you that they did a lot of scouting for the 2005 draft this past year because one of the things that will be affected by a prolonged stoppage next year is the budget for the scouting department. I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are no additions to the staff until after the CBA gets rehashed.
Wow that's tough IMO. I think that is a big mistake.

One area budget or not that the Oilers simply cannot afford to skimp on is their scouting department.

It is great to say that did a lot of their scouting for 2005 now but we all know how much things can change in a year as these players are developing.

I know you have to be careful how you ask this Guy, but I would really like to know why the Oilers feel that they can afford NOT to keep scouting a priority.

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06-05-2004, 01:16 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
I know you have to be careful how you ask this Guy, but I would really like to know why the Oilers feel that they can afford NOT to keep scouting a priority.
there is no answer to that question other than they don't know what they are doing.

There is no way they won't scout players more fully next year, or at least as fully as normal. It's 2 extra paid people they have watching players, in Lowe and MacT, never mind the assistants who may/may not still be paid next season. This is a small market team, their advantage HAS to be in drafting, ot ignore that is to be "penny wise, pound foolish".

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06-05-2004, 12:05 PM
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Slow down... I didn't say they weren't going to be scouting, I said the budget will be smaller because there won't be any income for the team. This doesn't mean they won't be scouting all year... but maybe they don't take as many trips to the small towns to look at tier II players and the really remote locations. Don't think for a second that all teams aren't going to be scaling back and watching their expenses next year, it doesn't mean the Oilers are making a mistake or anything. Applaud them for looking ahead this past year if you're really wanting to comment.

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06-05-2004, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
Slow down... I didn't say they weren't going to be scouting, I said the budget will be smaller because there won't be any income for the team. This doesn't mean they won't be scouting all year... but maybe they don't take as many trips to the small towns to look at tier II players and the really remote locations. Don't think for a second that all teams aren't going to be scaling back and watching their expenses next year, it doesn't mean the Oilers are making a mistake or anything. Applaud them for looking ahead this past year if you're really wanting to comment.

I have this vision of the entire scouting staff watching Crosby:

Lowe: OMFG! This guy is the best player I've seen since 99!

Prendergast: We GOTTA trade up and get him!

MacT: Well, I think he'll need some time with Ward to learn about playing without the puck. WHo's up for lunch?



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06-05-2004, 12:26 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
I have this vision of the entire scouting staff watching Crosby:

Lowe: OMFG! This guy is the best player I've seen since 99!

Prendergast: We GOTTA trade up and get him!

MacT: Well, I think he'll need some time with Ward to learn about playing without the puck. WHo's up for lunch?


Somehow you managed to turn Lowe and Prendergast into a bunch of 15 year old teenagers.

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06-05-2004, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momentai
Somehow you managed to turn Lowe and Prendergast into a bunch of 15 year old teenagers.
You mean that isn't how they talk?

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06-05-2004, 02:06 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
You mean that isn't how they talk?
Reporter: Mr. Lowe, I was wondering how you feel about some of your trades in the past few years. Let's start with Niinimaa for Torres and Isbister.

KLowe: Dude, I SO owned Milbury.

Reporter: ... ok, how about the Carter trade?

KLowe: OMG did Slats ever get schooled on that one. He's eating our dust now!

Reporter: Right. How do you feel about losing Marchant now?

KLowe: Well, Todd was a player who bled Oiler blue for many years... meh, who am I kidding, he ran the first chance he got. Suckah! Next?

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06-05-2004, 05:47 PM
  #10
hockeyaddict101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
Slow down... I didn't say they weren't going to be scouting, I said the budget will be smaller because there won't be any income for the team. This doesn't mean they won't be scouting all year... but maybe they don't take as many trips to the small towns to look at tier II players and the really remote locations. Don't think for a second that all teams aren't going to be scaling back and watching their expenses next year, it doesn't mean the Oilers are making a mistake or anything. Applaud them for looking ahead this past year if you're really wanting to comment.
I never said that they weren't going to be scouting I said it was a mistake to not make it a priority! Read my post again Guy, and I still think it is a mistake.

Teams like the Oilers (small market) can NEVER afford not to make it a priority.

I agree with Speeds "Penny wise, Pound foolish"!!

I will applaud the Oilers when the deserve applauding but when I see what I percieve to be a mistake I will comment on it.

Yes I know that many teams will scale back expenses but this is one area that I don't think the Oilers can afford to scale back on.

I guess that is an advantage of being a fan and one that has paid big bucks for the privilege of watching them play every year I have my opinion on what should be a priority.

If other teams are scaling back on this area, it would be advantegeous for the Oilers not too. It will give them an advantage.


Last edited by hockeyaddict101: 06-05-2004 at 06:07 PM.
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06-05-2004, 07:04 PM
  #11
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well if scaling back means that they don't send scouts to any NHL games, what is the problem?

If they spend less time looking at guys in the AJHL or the BCHL, really, is it that big of a loss?

Obviously we don't want them to ignore who are going to be the usual keys (CHL, europe, AHL), but if they are scaling back on the ECHL, the tier II's, etc... I don't see where there is a problem.

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06-05-2004, 07:37 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaz44
I never said that they weren't going to be scouting I said it was a mistake to not make it a priority! Read my post again Guy, and I still think it is a mistake.

Teams like the Oilers (small market) can NEVER afford not to make it a priority.

I agree with Speeds "Penny wise, Pound foolish"!!
While I agree that 'small market' Edmonton needs to make scouting/drafting a priority for the team, I wouldn't deem cutting back on said activities in the coming year a mistake.

Going forward until the next NHL season (whenever that is) the Oilers are basically spending money they don't have. Short of another cash call, I don't see how they can maintain "normal" operations until actual cash/revenues from those operations come in. At this point, the team is just trying to stay afloat.

In any regular offseason, the team can comfortably rely on future cash inflows. However, this season - as we all know - is an anomoly. Smart move by management to scale back to essentials.

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06-05-2004, 07:39 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
well if scaling back means that they don't send scouts to any NHL games, what is the problem?

If they spend less time looking at guys in the AJHL or the BCHL, really, is it that big of a loss?

Obviously we don't want them to ignore who are going to be the usual keys (CHL, europe, AHL), but if they are scaling back on the ECHL, the tier II's, etc... I don't see where there is a problem.

There are other routes too. An organization like ISS tracks players more than a year out, so the NHL teams that do subscribe probably already have some kind of book on a BCJHL player or some such.

The next big problem for the Oilers is going to be how to protect all these draft picks. They've been selecting more than average for several years now, and sooner or later they're going to be eligible for the waiver draft etc.

I wonder if anyone knows if they'll freeze the eligibility of players if the NHL misses a season?

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06-06-2004, 02:43 AM
  #14
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Fair enough guys.

I was just hoping we would be able to get a leg up on the competition. It obviously depends on how much they are scaling back and doesn't seem to be that much so my concerns are somewhat alleviated.

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06-06-2004, 02:55 AM
  #15
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If temporarily scaling back the scouting operation during the lockout means that enough money is saved so that some of the Oilers staff don't have their jobs cut like in Phoenix ( http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=86506 ), then I'm all for it.

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06-06-2004, 11:56 AM
  #16
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speeds said it.

KLo, MacT and all coaches under contract will be paid regardless.
They can earn their keep (so to speak) by scouting.
When a new CBA is reached, we can replace the scouts we are losing now.

dawgbone said it too.

No NHL games to scout.

However, I don't perceive any advantage over the competition, as any team with a coaching staff under contract will be doing the same thing.

I would also suggest that any '05 scouting they are doing now would be to get a 'heads up' on guys they want to follow more closely next year.
Just seems efficient to me.

As for losing guys on waivers...
Oi'll say! asked this question a few days ago and we still don't have a difinitive answer.
But, as we learned last year with 'Big Valley', when a team chooses a player off of waivers, that player must play for the NHL team that chose him or be placed on waivers again to be sent down to the minors.
Since no NHL teams will be playing, waivers serves no purpose.

Guy, would you be able to slip in a gentle "What happens to waivers if there's no NHL play?", next time you talk to 'the powers that be'? thanx.

As for the sheer number of prospects that need to be protected...
Don't be surprised if you see a few of our favourite prospects dealt for a 'now' player or 2, once hockey resumes.
I also think that KLo is prepared to lose a couple via waivers.
I'm sure he'll do what he can to avoid it, but he's been hedging his bets by amassing prospect depth.

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Old
06-06-2004, 01:10 PM
  #17
Guy Flaming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceDragoon
Guy, would you be able to slip in a gentle "What happens to waivers if there's no NHL play?", next time you talk to 'the powers that be'? thanx.

As for the sheer number of prospects that need to be protected...
Don't be surprised if you see a few of our favourite prospects dealt for a 'now' player or 2, once hockey resumes.
No problem.

Also, don't be shocked if the Oilers package a couple prospects to get one big NHL player back, remember how they've been saying they admire Colorado and Philly for doing that in recent years... once the CBA is done and hopefully star players are affordable again, the Oilers have the assets to do that.

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06-06-2004, 06:04 PM
  #18
IceDragoon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming
... Also, don't be shocked if the Oilers package a couple prospects to get one big NHL player back, remember how they've been saying they admire Colorado and Philly for doing that in recent years... once the CBA is done and hopefully star players are affordable again, the Oilers have the assets to do that.

That's what I had in mind when I said 'now', 'cause that's all we need 'now'.
Gotta love it when a plan is on track.

Thanx again, Guy.

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