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Satisfied with the offseason so far?

View Poll Results: Satisfied with the offseason so far?
Yes, we're younger, faster, and more team-oriented 49 59.04%
No, much more needs to be done 4 4.82%
No, losing Jagr was terrible and way too much turnover 11 13.25%
I'm not sure yet 19 22.89%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-04-2008, 02:33 AM
  #76
Radek27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
And i suppose you realize that they often played on different lines right?

i'll assume you're pretty familiar with their roster from last season?

You want to see something scary - take one look at this:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...023302008.html
Your right........that is damn scary.

It's very similar to the team the Rangers are going to put on the ice. Seriously, look at it. Of course minus the Nash part.

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07-04-2008, 02:37 AM
  #77
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Now look who's reaching....

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07-04-2008, 02:40 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Your reachin man lol

Your comparing the roles Gomez and Drury had in thier teams to that of Jagr? Guess you missed those 2nd round losses to the Pens when he was just a kid. I remember it very clearly, Jagr was at times the best player in the building.

Star players what are those you ask? Dunno we have none now in NY besides Hank.
LOL. Can i ask you a question? Do you beep when you try back out of a spot or is yours one of those "buzzing" models?

And yeah, I am comparing roles. Gomez was a top-six forward and second leading scorer on both of his cup winning Devils teams.

Drury was also a key component of his team's championship including playing both center and wing as his team needed. He was also the second leading goal scorer for his team in the playoffs that year.

Drury was one of the key players in the Avs cup win and backed that up by taking key shifts both as a center and a win on that team. He had 11 goals during that cup run.

Nice try, but no dice my friend.

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07-04-2008, 02:40 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by 2Leetch_94 View Post
Now look who's reaching....
I think it's more desperation at this point.

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07-04-2008, 02:49 AM
  #80
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We lose one star player in Jagr this off-season. I hope you're not considering Shanahan, Avery, and Straka as "stars" production wise. Based on name alone, really. Hell, if we want count stars that way, Naslund and Redden are two huge stars we've added the last few days.

Nothing against Jagr but let's not pretend like we're losing the Jagr of the first year back from the lockout where he was on the ice and literally made things happen almost every shift. Or the Jagr that could score at will on the powerplay instead of the Jagr we've had the last two seasons where our powerplay was a complete and utter joke. No, I'm not blaming the entire powerplay woes on Jagr but the fact remains we ran that first unit through him.

Losing Jagr will hurt us in some ways, but I think people don't realize that it could help us in other ways as well. Like giving our 14Men more of a leadership role, instead of taking the backseat to Jagr.

It's okay to be down on some of the moves, like losing Avery and Jagr, but let's not act like we're fielding a roster of nobodies with no potential and there's no bright light in sight. That's simply isn't true and if you truly believe that, drama was probably a subject of yours in middle school and HS.

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07-04-2008, 02:57 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by 2Leetch_94 View Post
We lose one star player in Jagr this off-season. I hope you're not considering Shanahan, Avery, and Straka as "stars" production wise. Based on name alone, really. Hell, if we want count stars that way, Naslund and Redden are two huge stars we've added the last few days.

Nothing against Jagr but let's not pretend like we're losing the Jagr of the first year back from the lockout where he was on the ice and literally made things happen almost every shift. Or the Jagr that could score at will on the powerplay instead of the Jagr we've had the last two seasons where our powerplay was a complete and utter joke. No, I'm not blaming the entire powerplay woes on Jagr but the fact remains we ran that first unit through him.

Losing Jagr will hurt us in some ways, but I think people don't realize that it could help us in other ways as well. Like giving our 14Men more of a leadership role, instead of taking the backseat to Jagr.

It's okay to be down on some of the moves, like losing Avery and Jagr, but let's not act like we're fielding a roster of nobodies with no potential and there's no bright light in sight. That's simply isn't true and if you truly believe that, drama was probably a subject of yours in middle school and HS.

That's my thing really. It's okay to say "Mmm, I probably wouldn't have done that." But a lot of this is more than that, it's like this doomsday, the Rangers are screwed beyond belief mentality and I just don't think that's the case.

I don't think it's a given that there plan will work, but I don't think we can is a certainty to fail either.

I think the people who like the move are more willing to accept that it might fail than the people who hate the move are willing to say that it might work. And from the looks of the poll it seems to be a small, but very vocal minority.

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07-04-2008, 02:59 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think it's more desperation at this point.
Yeah cause no one better dare disagree with you lol

Sorry I disagree this isn't a better team now than in April. I'm sure not the only one.

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07-04-2008, 03:02 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Yeah cause no one better dare disagree with you lol

Sorry I disagree this isn't a better team now than in April. I'm sure not the only one.
I have no problem when someone disagrees with me, I just hope they at least make sense doing it.

And don't worry, you're not alone. Right now there's about 7 people who are as unhappy as you right now. But hey, one more and you can field a baseball team.

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07-04-2008, 03:12 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
LOL. Can i ask you a question? Do you beep when you try back out of a spot or is yours one of those "buzzing" models?

And yeah, I am comparing roles. Gomez was a top-six forward and second leading scorer on both of his cup winning Devils teams.

Drury was also a key component of his team's championship including playing both center and wing as his team needed. He was also the second leading goal scorer for his team in the playoffs that year.

Drury was one of the key players in the Avs cup win and backed that up by taking key shifts both as a center and a win on that team. He had 11 goals during that cup run.

Nice try, but no dice my friend.
The fact you are even comparing Chris Drury to Jagr and it's no dice for me? lol Listen I hope i'm dead wrong. I'm a Ranger fan, I don't like this huge turnaround and who we are now counting on to lead this team. You happen to like it and thats your opinion and I have mine, I don't go insulting you or trying to make you look stupid. Man your one of the more respected posters on this board? Cause you force your opinion onto others as facts? I disagree, get over it.

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07-04-2008, 03:14 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I have no problem when someone disagrees with me, I just hope they at least make sense doing it.

And don't worry, you're not alone. Right now there's about 7 people who are as unhappy as you right now. But hey, one more and you can field a baseball team.
God the vote is done on a Rangers board. Put in on the NHL board and see what the vote gets from non ranger fans.

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07-04-2008, 03:30 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
The fact you are even comparing Chris Drury to Jagr and it's no dice for me? lol Listen I hope i'm dead wrong. I'm a Ranger fan, I don't like this huge turnaround and who we are now counting on to lead this team. You happen to like it and thats your opinion and I have mine, I don't go insulting you or trying to make you look stupid. Man your one of the more respected posters on this board? Cause you force your opinion onto others as facts? I disagree, get over it.
What we were comparing is there respective importance to championship teams. You dug yourself into a whole when you wanted to talk about the star players Drury played with and how they carried the load, and I provided with you two very important pieces of information that contradicted that remark.

The first was the players whom Jagr played with and the second was the accomplishments of Drury and Gomez on their own championship teams.

Additionally, there was the whole Enigma thing. In response to which, I think you should go ask the Caps board how they feel. Nothing but a suggestion that could certainly help prove your point.

I mean there's opinions and there are just glaring omissions of fact and history, such as the players these guys played with during their championships and their importance to those clubs. I would never say Jagr didn't play a roll in the Pens wins, but to say that Drury and Gomez were less important to their teams than Jagr was as an 18 and 19 year old is just a real distortion. You could claim different eras, different team styles, but to ignore the fact that Gomes and Drury are winners and capable of being key components of championship teams is a real stretch.

Hacing said that, I've repeatedly said in the threads we're discussing these issues that I don't think the plan is guranteed to succeed. I've acknowledged the risks behind the approach. On the flip side you seem to speak in more definitive phrases such as:

"Can't wait to see how these optimistic posters react when reality on the ice hits them in the face."

And a few gems as well:

"Your so sure Gomez is going to get 70 points? I don't think he even plays in 70 games cause these little guys are going to get crushed."

"That simple. I never cared much for the one deminisional players like him, pass pass pass pass pass pass pass. Going all the way back to Cam Jansens."

"And stop saying Zherdev did it alone. Just because the team didn't make the playoffs doesn't mean they don't have other good players."

"Actually Jagr was never labeled like that. Enigma means your not playing up to your talent level or ability for whatever reason (hi Brendl). Jagr has always produced."

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07-04-2008, 03:31 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
God the vote is done on a Rangers board. Put in on the NHL board and see what the vote gets from non ranger fans.
So what it doesn't count for the people who actually watch the team on a consistent basis?

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07-04-2008, 03:40 AM
  #88
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My only problem with asking other team's fans is that they see the Rangers losing Jagr, Shanahan, Straka, and Avery - and not the whole picture. We lost big names, I'll agree. But as far as production wise, Shanahan and Straka were nice guys and played hard every game but they just weren't the same players anymore.

Sure, the Rangers are taking risks. The Redden signing could blow up in our face, Zherdev could bolt to Russia next off-season. Dubinsky and Dawes could stop showing promise and improvement and screw us up royally. But, that shouldn't stop me, or anyone else, to see the potential this group has to become a better team.

The fact is Jagr is coming close to an end to his NHL career, maybe not this season or even the next, but eventually the Rangers had to part ways and build this team around the big signings we've made last July. Sather and company decided now was the time when the Rangers didn't have the Caps on the hook for half his salary with Jagr not wanting to take a paycut either. Something has to give.

I'm just saying, it's easy to go on about how doomed the Rangers are but from what I've seen from watching this team almost every game since the lockout - I just don't buy that we're into a long rebuilding mode now and everyone should just get used to mediocrity on the ice because of all this change. There's more than one way to run and build a successful team.

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07-04-2008, 03:41 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
What we were comparing is there respective importance to championship teams. You dug yourself into a whole when you wanted to talk about the star players Drury played with and how they carried the load, and I provided with you two very important pieces of information that contradicted that remark.

The first was the players whom Jagr played with and the second was the accomplishments of Drury and Gomez on their own championship teams.

Additionally, there was the whole Enigma thing. In response to which, I think you should go ask the Caps board how they feel. Nothing but a suggestion that could certainly help prove your point.

I mean there's opinions and there are just glaring omissions of fact and history, such as the players these guys played with during their championships and their importance to those clubs. I would never say Jagr didn't play a roll in the Pens wins, but to say that Drury and Gomez were less important to their teams than Jagr was as an 18 and 19 year old is just a real distortion. You could claim different eras, different team styles, but to ignore the fact that Gomes and Drury are winners and capable of being key components of championship teams is a real stretch.

Hacing said that, I've repeatedly said in the threads we're discussing these issues that I don't think the plan is guranteed to succeed. I've acknowledged the risks behind the approach. On the flip side you seem to speak in more definitive phrases such as:

"Can't wait to see how these optimistic posters react when reality on the ice hits them in the face."

And a few gems as well:

"Your so sure Gomez is going to get 70 points? I don't think he even plays in 70 games cause these little guys are going to get crushed."

"That simple. I never cared much for the one deminisional players like him, pass pass pass pass pass pass pass. Going all the way back to Cam Jansens."

"And stop saying Zherdev did it alone. Just because the team didn't make the playoffs doesn't mean they don't have other good players."

"Actually Jagr was never labeled like that. Enigma means your not playing up to your talent level or ability for whatever reason (hi Brendl). Jagr has always produced."
So your saying he is an Enigma cause he didn't produce in Washington? You mean he dind't produce super Jagr like numbers for them, but he is over a pt per game in a cap uniform. Anyone on this team project to a point per game during a season? ANYONE? I think pt per game is producing.

And your other point almost proves mine. They do not have the players on this team that they had on thier past clubs to repeat those past performances. I'm not saying they are crap, I just don't feel Gomez is a real #1 center or do I think Drury is a guy that would lead us to anything without the proper supporting cast which we do not have. I would feel different maybe if we had more cap room with this roster to make a nice move in the future but that doesn't look too good either. We now have a lot of guys locked up on long term contracts and aren't close to looking like a cup team. Not a good combo if you ask me.

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07-04-2008, 03:46 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
So what it doesn't count for the people who actually watch the team on a consistent basis?
Wow a bunch of Ranger fans have faith that the team will make the playoffs, big surprise there.

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07-04-2008, 03:53 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Wow a bunch of Ranger fans have faith that the team will make the playoffs, big surprise there.
Well, Rangers aren't exactly the most popular team to the other 29 teams fans around the league. Sounds like one extreme to the other. One side looking at all the positives and the other the negative with a few posters that can do both.

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07-04-2008, 03:53 AM
  #92
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So your saying he is an Enigma cause he didn't produce in Washington? You mean he dind't produce super Jagr like numbers for them, but he is over a pt per game in a cap uniform. Anyone on this team project to a point per game during a season? ANYONE? I think pt per game is producing.
Here is what you defined an Enigma as in your own words: "Enigma means your not playing up to your talent level or ability for whatever reason."

Do you're telling me that Jagr played up to his talent level in Washington? Or even for stretches in Pitts for that matter?

The question isn't whether a player produces at all, it's as you said, whether they play up to their talent level.

If we're going with the producing approach, well then Zherdev produced darn well for a very poor Columbus team and was one of the main reasons they weren't dead last in the standings.

Going back to what we discussed earlier, you pointed to Jagr pouting on a bad Washington team. Well don't you think Columbus certainly fits that description as well.

If we're going to go with the boundaries or definitions you believe, that we have to hold both players to that standard and take into account their respective circumstances.

It's only fair, wouldn't you agree?

Quote:
And your other point almost proves mine. They do not have the players on this team that they had on thier past clubs to repeat those past performances. I'm not saying they are crap, I just don't feel Gomez is a real #1 center or do I think Drury is a guy that would lead us to anything without the proper supporting cast which we do not have. I would feel different maybe if we had more cap room with this roster to make a nice move in the future but that doesn't look too good either. We now have a lot of guys locked up on long term contracts and aren't close to looking like a cup team. Not a good combo if you ask me.
But the thing is you can't say Gomez isn't a number one center when he's already been one on two championship teams. As for supporting cast, that's EXACTLY the point of these moves. To get a CAST, not an individual. That's exactly what I've been talking about all along.

And while I don't think this team is to that point yet, I think you've got guys who are going to be playing at high levels or approach high levels for a long time.

In addition to Gomez and Drury, you've now got Anisimov, Zherdev and Cherepanov all under the age of 25.

You've got got emerging players in Dubinsky, Dawes and Staal who have done nothing but keep progressing in the right direction.

You've got positive progress from guys like Sanguinetti, Korpikoski and others and you have a top 5 goaltender in Lundqvist. If that's not a pretty good foundation for a team with some line rolling depth, than I don't know what is.

Now it's going to take time and it's going to patience and even then it's not a sure-thing, but it's got some potential and next year's team is not destined to "blow up in our faces". That's not to say it won't, but I don't think it's statement worthy at this time.

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07-04-2008, 03:55 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Wow a bunch of Ranger fans have faith that the team will make the playoffs, big surprise there.
As opposed to people who traditionally hate us?

Why is that if someone has a positive view they're drinking the Kool-Aid and must be overly optimistic while someone who has a negative view is clearly informed and unbiased?

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07-04-2008, 04:07 AM
  #94
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You don't even take a kid like Dubinsky into account. You assume because he's young and had a good rookie year he will get better. Ever hear of a sophmore slump? We are sure setting this kid up for one. He has now been bumped down the depth chart and his line mates sure aren't going to be of the same quality. Will he even get PP time now?

Another thing I don't like, size. We don't have it. Dawes, Prucha, Callahan, Naslund. Small man, very small. Center? Gomez and Drury are small. We play in a very physical division. Another reason I said I think Gomez will get injured. Why woudln't I think these little guys won't wear down during an 82 game season?

Cherry isn't going to be here this year, unless there is a secret thing going on. Anisimov? I'm not counting on that kid to be anywhere except the Pack. If he has a great camp and makes the team awesome, but it's not very likely, esp he plays C and thats our deepest position. We need wingers. And I'm not handing Korp a roster spot till he earns it in camp like most people here do. Kid scored one playoff goal, that gives him a roster spot?

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07-04-2008, 04:15 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
As opposed to people who traditionally hate us?

Why is that if someone has a positive view they're drinking the Kool-Aid and must be overly optimistic while someone who has a negative view is clearly informed and unbiased?
I had that positive view in the late 90's every offseason and to be honest this is just giving me that same funny feeling..........I don't like it. But back then it was Brendl who was gonna come in and net us that 30 + goals, oh and Lundmark was gonna be our franchise center, and Manny Malhotra being our captain. I could go on and on and on. Lots of "promise" but very little performance, and worst of all not being bad enough to get a really good draft pick and just go on and on and on.

As a fan that loves the team I don't ever want that to happen again, if we suck I want to suck really bad to get ATLEAST a top 5 pick. I think we can all agree we won't suck bad enough for that top 5 pick and the main question is can we make the playoffs as a low seed? To me that sets us up for that senario perfectly.

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07-04-2008, 04:22 AM
  #96
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You don't even take a kid like Dubinsky into account. You assume because he's young and had a good rookie year he will get better. Ever hear of a sophmore slump? We are sure setting this kid up for one. He has now been bumped down the depth chart and his line mates sure aren't going to be of the same quality. Will he even get PP time now?
LOL, so is he destined to fail too. So essentially, the team sucks, the players suck, the youth sucks and everyone is just about destined to suck.

Did I about capture your feelings on the matter?

So what did I say about Dubinsky that was so blaspamous? That's he's continued to progress since being drafted? That I believe they'll continue progressing in the right direction?

Now if I say "This kid is going be HOF'er who scored 40 goals and 100 points, but all means call me out on it. I'm a big proponent of NOT raising the bar too high. But I'm not going to say he has no future either.

And we have no idea who his linemates will be or how people will even react to each other. Heck, we're not even sure if this is the final roster. he might play with Prucha, Fritsche, etc. Maybe lines get mixed up. Maybe he see's time on the wing. Maybe Drury plays the wing and he plays center. We don't know any of this yet. But can we at least get to camp before we start crapping all of this kid's season at least? Aye, aye, aye, I feel like I'm manning a Rangers fan suicide line.


Quote:
Another thing I don't like, size. We don't have it. Dawes, Prucha, Callahan, Naslund. Small man, very small. Center? Gomez and Drury are small. We play in a very physical division. Another reason I said I think Gomez will get injured. Why woudln't I think these little guys won't wear down during an 82 game season?
Size is clearly an issue, but again, is it the doomsday scenario? Even if we went with Jagr or Naslund we'd still have that issue.

I think there are a lot of teams who like a big power forward out there. I'm sure Sather would too. But they don't grow on trees either. Maybe he looks for a trade, maybe he signs a guy like Bertuzzi. We're two days into the free agent process, we're going to have to wait and see.


Quote:
Cherry isn't going to be here this year, unless there is a secret thing going on. Anisimov? I'm not counting on that kid to be anywhere except the Pack. If he has a great camp and makes the team awesome, but it's not very likely, esp he plays C and thats our deepest position. We need wingers. And I'm not handing Korp a roster spot till he earns it in camp like most people here do. Kid scored one playoff goal, that gives him a roster spot?
No one said they're going to make an impact this year, I was talking about the team moving forward. Some of it might be this year, some next year. The point being that guys like Drury and Gomez have pretty good odds of being surrounded by some talented youngers players, along with vets in the future.

No one said we have to hand anyone anything either. I fully expect them to earn it. I also think some kids will be breaking in at other positions and that this team is going to be flexible with that kind of development.

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07-04-2008, 04:28 AM
  #97
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I had that positive view in the late 90's every offseason and to be honest this is just giving me that same funny feeling..........I don't like it. But back then it was Brendl who was gonna come in and net us that 30 + goals, oh and Lundmark was gonna be our franchise center, and Manny Malhotra being our captain. I could go on and on and on. Lots of "promise" but very little performance, and worst of all not being bad enough to get a really good draft pick and just go on and on and on.
Detroit is built around guys they got without really high draft picks. Same with Anaheim and even NJ. Other teams have built themselves by drafting smart, that is the key.

But you just cannot compare prospects to a 23-year old who already has 75 NHL goals under his belt with a bad team.

In fact I just think you can compare the two eras at all. Two very different prospect cupboards, two very different team approaches and two very different ideas of working in youth. Those teams never would've had two wingers under the age of 25 in their top 6. They never would've had three defenseman 28 and under, etc.

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As a fan that loves the team I don't ever want that to happen again, if we suck I want to suck really bad to get ATLEAST a top 5 pick. I think we can all agree we won't suck bad enough for that top 5 pick and the main question is can we make the playoffs as a low seed? To me that sets us up for that senario perfectly.
To me is sounds like perfect scenario for paranoia and ulcers.

Ths difference between this team and those teams are the young talent we already have playing in the NHL and the young talent we have knocking on the door.

Heck even Gomez, a veteran at this point, it's still only 28. It's just a very different situation.

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