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Discussion: Flames vs. Oilers current line-up

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Old
07-04-2008, 11:47 AM
  #26
Qubax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post

Iginla: PPG after 5 seasons= .69 PPG

Hemsky: PPG after 5 seasons= .76 PPG
okay I love stats more then the next guy, but you can't just throw those numbers out comparing Iginla and Hemsky and prove anything. Iginla is the superior player period. And even as Hemsky develops he'll never in his prime be the impact player that Iginla is/was.

That said the Oilers have vastly improved...and much more so then the Flames. I like the D, although I like our D better...I love your forward on the whole considerably more then ours, and in goal the Flames have the edge.

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07-04-2008, 11:51 AM
  #27
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I still think that the Oilers have the better forward core. We have a pretty even Defense altogether, we are just better at different aspects of the game.


which line would you rather prefer?


Bourque-Lombardi-Boyd or Penner-Horcoff-Nilsson?

Glencross-Conroy-Moss or Schremp-Cogliano-Brule?

Greentree-Primeau-Prust or Moreau-Brodziak-Pisani


And when even comparing the first lines:

Camalleri-Langkow-Iginla or Cole-Gagner-Hemsky, I would definitely prefer the latter.

Camalleri and Cole are pretty much non-existent as both are not speculated to return to their respective teams once they hit UFA next season.

And when it comes down to Langkow-Iginla or Gagner-Hemsky, I would much rather go with Hemsky and Gagner for the long run. Even if you have the better top line currently, we have the better forward core, but everyone here doesn't seem convinced

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07-04-2008, 11:52 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qubax View Post
okay I love stats more then the next guy, but you can't just throw those numbers out comparing Iginla and Hemsky and prove anything. Iginla is the superior player period. And even as Hemsky develops he'll never in his prime be the impact player that Iginla is/was.

That said the Oilers have vastly improved...and much more so then the Flames. I like the D, although I like our D better...I love your forward on the whole considerably more then ours, and in goal the Flames have the edge.
Pretty much the same consensus from last year.

This argument is silly it's the beginning of July and the Flames do not even look close to being done.

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07-04-2008, 11:55 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
I still think that the Oilers have the better forward core. We have a pretty even Defense altogether, we are just better at different aspects of the game.


which line would you rather prefer?


Bourque-Lombardi-Boyd or Penner-Horcoff-Nilsson?

Glencross-Conroy-Moss or Schremp-Cogliano-Brule?

Greentree-Primeau-Prust or Moreau-Brodziak-Pisani


And when even comparing the first lines:

Camalleri-Langkow-Iginla or Cole-Gagner-Hemsky, I would definitely prefer the latter.

Camalleri and Cole are pretty much non-existent as both are not speculated to return to their respective teams once they hit UFA next season.

And when it comes down to Langkow-Iginla or Gagner-Hemsky, I would much rather go with Hemsky and Gagner for the long run. Even if you have the better top line currently, we have the better forward core, but everyone here doesn't seem convinced
The Oilers easily have a better group of young forwards than the Flames. I don't think anyone would argue that.

But if looking at just this season and how the forwards will perform, the Flames' top unit likely will be the most productive, and that may be enough to put them over the top.

Also, I would take Iginla over any forward on either team and it wouldn't be close. He's 33 years old, but likely will play for several more years. He's one of the top-5 players in the game.

Gagner would be my 2nd choice due to his potential and skillset.

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Old
07-04-2008, 11:55 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Classy Iggy View Post
Pretty much the same consensus from last year.

This argument is silly it's the beginning of July and the Flames do not even look close to being done.
You can say the same thing for the Oil. I am assured that Lowe will grant us another top-six player to play with Horcoff and Hemsky.

Plus I do admit this arguement is silly, since if this was on the Oilers board it would be totally the opposite.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, Im just stating mine.

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07-04-2008, 11:57 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Northern Neighbour View Post
The Oilers easily have a better group of young forwards than the Flames. I don't think anyone would argue that.

But if looking at just this season and how the forwards will perform, the Flames' top unit likely will be the most productive, and that may be enough to put them over the top.

Also, I would take Iginla over any forward on either team and it wouldn't be close. He's 33 years old, but likely will play for several more years. He's one of the top-5 players in the game.

Gagner would be my 2nd choice due to his potential and skillset.
Better Forwards, PERIOD. On Defense it Varies, Flames have Better Goaltending, PERIOD

Im not being a homer for that poster who said that about me, If you think Im a homer you must think the same thing about all Oil fans, and we could say the same about the Flames fans.

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Old
07-04-2008, 12:08 PM
  #32
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Like Death and Taxes you are certain to have an Oilers have a better lineup thread in July. Forget about all the intangibles involved in developing a winner on the ice!

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Old
07-04-2008, 12:10 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
I still think that the Oilers have the better forward core. We have a pretty even Defense altogether, we are just better at different aspects of the game.


which line would you rather prefer?


Bourque-Lombardi-Moss/FA or Penner-Horcoff-Nilsson?

Edge to the Oil on this one.

Glencross/Nystrom-Conroy-Moss/Boyd or Schremp-Cogliano-Brule?

Calgary due to Brule not being as good as you think he is and Schremp not having lots of experience in the NHL. I like Cog's but think he would benefit playing with your 4th line players more. This is a bad line IMO.

Nystrom/Glencross-Primeau-Prust or Moreau-Brodziak-Pisani

Pisani is the best player here and he will most likely be on your 3rd line when all is said and done. Slight edge to Oil.

Greentree is a AHL'er, we might resign Nolan and Yelle that changes things quite a bit.

And when even comparing the first lines:

Camalleri-Langkow-Iginla or Cole-Gagner-Hemsky, I would definitely prefer the latter.

Why? only a fool would pass that 1st line up.

Camalleri and Cole are pretty much non-existent as both are not speculated to return to their respective teams once they hit UFA next season.

I bet we sign an extension on Camalleri.

And when it comes down to Langkow-Iginla or Gagner-Hemsky, I would much rather go with Hemsky and Gagner for the long run. Even if you have the better top line currently, we have the better forward core, but everyone here doesn't seem
convinced

Everyone has their opinion and you on a FLAMES BOARD! Any your argument seem like they came from a 16 year old.
I for one think the Oil will do the same as they did last year, they improved up front but that was not their concern last year. Maybe they will make playoffs, I would bet they are going to struggle to get the 8th spot though.


Last edited by Ticonderoga: 07-04-2008 at 01:48 PM.
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Old
07-04-2008, 12:13 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Better Forwards, PERIOD. On Defense it Varies, Flames have Better Goaltending, PERIOD

Im not being a homer for that poster who said that about me, If you think Im a homer you must think the same thing about all Oil fans, and we could say the same about the Flames fans.

Just the unrealistic ones, and I bet Klowe is tring to pull off another trade as the Oil cannot sign a FA to save their life.

Better chance we pull of a trade now insted of the Oil.

And yes some of your comments are homerish. Gagner=100pts this season is silly.

And overall in defense the Flames are better, that is a no contest like the Oil have better overall forwards right now.


Last edited by Ticonderoga: 07-04-2008 at 12:22 PM.
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Old
07-04-2008, 12:17 PM
  #35
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gagner does NOT compare to iggy and will never get 100pt season he will get close but he wont

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Old
07-04-2008, 12:53 PM
  #36
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oil homers bring the lolz

goaltending - the flames

defense - flames by a slight edge

offense - the oiler by a slight edge

the oil and flames are pretty much even at this point. both have fast young forwards(the oil have higher potential, but then again that is "potential" not proven) both have solid d corps, and in terms of goaltending, no offense to garon, but kipper is better.

oil fans need to get off their high horse or at least keep the flames bashing to their own forum

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07-04-2008, 01:02 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by boogieman99 View Post
oil homers bring the lolz

goaltending - the flames

defense - flames by a slight edge

offense - the oiler by a slight edge

the oil and flames are pretty much even at this point. both have fast young forwards(the oil have higher potential, but then again that is "potential" not proven) both have solid d corps, and in terms of goaltending, no offense to garon, but kipper is better.

oil fans need to get off their high horse or at least keep the flames bashing to their own forum
I can't believe people are saying players will be equal to Iginla because they can score 90 points.

Iginla brings a lot more to the ice than 90 points. One of the best all around players in the game.

Comparing stats in Iginla's early years is even more ridiculous. There are many players that outscored Iginla in their first 5 years. Does that mean they will all end up having the same impact as Iginla?

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Old
07-04-2008, 01:09 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Better Forwards, PERIOD. On Defense it Varies, Flames have Better Goaltending, PERIOD

Im not being a homer for that poster who said that about me, If you think Im a homer you must think the same thing about all Oil fans, and we could say the same about the Flames fans.
you are allowed to have your opinion but because u post on a flames board, we are allowed to criticize your opinion

you are putting too much emphasis on potential... schremp has all the skill and ability from a prospect point of view.. but the question isn't about that.. its about who can perform the best in the NHL THIS season..

the main difference between the flames and the oilers group of forwards is proven experience... our group of forwards have shown what they can and can not do in the NHL... while noone is disputing the POTENTIAL the oilers have upfront, they have not shown the ability to perform at that expected potential yet.. therefore, if you are comparing this years group of forwards between the flames and the oilers, (u can extend it to the defense core as well), then the flames have as good if not a better group of forwards than the oilers

noone is disputing that gagner is a potential great player.. but to expect him to play at iginla's level (leader of the team on and off the ice, 25+ minutes a night, plays in all situations, plays hard and physical, throws hits, plays defensively, grinds it out, has decent footspeed, great wrist shot and slapshot, strong on his feet, hard to knock off the puck, and the heart of a champion) in the next few years is foolish... it took iginla 10 years of NHL experience to get to his level which is a bonafide power forward in the NHL who is consistently in the top 10 of scoring and a perennial hart trophy candidate

gagner may score 100 pts one day.. but so can jason spezza.. would u rather have iggy on ur team or spezza? thats the difference between iginla today and perhaps gagner in the future

hemsky is a different story.. he has been in the NHL for awhile now and where he showed great potential (similar to gagner) in his early years, he has fallen off of his learning curve and currently has plateaued as a soft winger who has all the skill to dipsy and doodle but refuses to shoot the puck or drive the puck to the net.. if hemsky wants to elevate his game and become a 100 pt player, he has to work on shooting the puck more as well as other aspects of his game

brule again is unproven.. he has shown grit and speed as a rookie but since his injuries, he has yet to show it consistently.. he may be able to break out of it this year but we dont know that yet

cogliano, nilsson and schremp are kinda in a similar boat.. young guys with great assets to their game whether its speed, puckhandling or their shot.. but the problem again is they are unproven players at the NHL level to be able to bring the same thing every night

to me, cogliano has more of the potential to become todd marchant and geoff sanderson but he hasn't showed the consistency yet, mainly cuz he is young.. there is of course time but again my point is since we are comparing the two teams for this season, you can't take into account potential because it means nothing in a current season... the penguins (from 2-3 yrs ago), capitals (from 2-3 yrs ago) and the current kings have teams with loads of potential.. they have great young players.. how come they perennially were in the bottom half of the league? because they hadn't matured to the level where they could translate their potential to actual results

so yes, the whole point of this is to acknowledge the potential that the oilers have upfront.. but other than a few key guys (horcoff, cole, moreau, etc) who have shown what they can bring, you can't say that the oilers are a better group this year becuase they haven't matured to their peak levels yet.. they are still in the process

would i like to have some of the young guys that the oilers have? sure.. gagner will be a great player for the oilers.. but if i had to win THIS season, id stick with the forwards that the flames have

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Old
07-04-2008, 01:10 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Lets compare the Flames and Oilers lineups currently


Camalleri-Langkow-Iginla
Bourque-Lombardi-Boyd
Glencross-Conroy-Nolan(hell most likely resign)
Prust-Primeau-Moss

Phaneuf-Aucion
Regehr-Sarich
Vandermeer-Giordano

Kipper
Mchelhinney


Cole-Horcoff/Gagner-Hemsky
Penner-Gagner/Horcoff-Nilsson
Schremp-Cogliano-Brule
Moreau-Brodziak-Pisani

Visnovsky-Gilbert
Souray-Grebeshkov
Smid-Staios

Garon
JDD

thoughts?
Yeah, here are some thoughts:

1.) You didn't even bother to explain the purpose. The BOA is nothing but media hype and competition among young fans of the cities. The real BOA was back when Semenko and Hunter needed no introductions. If there's any rivalry at all, it lacks the intensity.

2.) Why would the Flames have to be guaged against what the Oilers do? This like a large segment of the CP population, who obsess over everything Edmonton/Kevin Lowe. You might just as well have trolled the Canucks board to go Oilers vs. Canucks.

Then you turn around and respond to every reply that you don't like. Post padding used to be an offense at HF. We digress. You blew whatever ounce of credibility you might've had by trying to claim that Vishnovsky was, somehow, better than Phaneuf. Phaneuf hasn't even hit his ceiling yet. He is the kind of d-man that can have a team built around him. Mentioning him in the same breadth as Scott Stevens and Denis Potvin isn't so extreme, although those two were directly responsible for contributing to dynasties.

Robyn Regehr were hyped as having "Adam Foote upside." For all the hot air about about Morris having "whispers of Chelios," there was plenty of reason to be cynical. As was already stated, the Team Canada selections proved what kind of esteem Regehr's game is held by observers who know what the frig they're talking about. Compare this with how Brewer was only there because of Lowe.

THe claim that Gagner & Hemsky are going to be 100 point guys. In what league? Line up even an average checking line against Hemsky, give a few shoves early in the first period, and he's quiet for the rest of the evening.

Bottom line:

You infiltrated this board just to say, "my team is better." Seriously, why should anyone care about you or your team?

Gee, so the Flames have a better goalie. Thanks. It'll be so much easier to enjoy today, content in that knowledge.

Oh, and the rosters aren't set yet. Much can, and will, change between now and October.

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Old
07-04-2008, 01:16 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Classy Iggy View Post
Just the unrealistic ones, and I bet Klowe is tring to pull off another trade as the Oil cannot sign a FA to save their life.

Better chance we pull of a trade now insted of the Oil.

And yes some of your comments are homerish. Gagner=100pts this season is silly.

And overall in defense the Flames are better, that is a no contest like the Oil have better overall forwards right now.
Please tell me the last big FA signing Calgary had.

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Old
07-04-2008, 01:17 PM
  #41
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I think its hilarious, Oiler fans make a lot of guesses, and they do it year after year.

Now Shremp, Brule and Gogliano one player who can't crack the NHL, one player who's done nothing in the NHL and one I'll admit nice player are far better then a line of Glencross, Conroy and Boyd. Based on what? potential? Mod-edit: deleted.

And there is no comparison between Vish and Phaneuf. Souray is a one dimensional injury prone defenseman and comparing him to one of the best shutdown defensemen in the NHL.

And Cammalleri Langkow and Iginla blows away Cole Hemsky and Gagne, right now this year.

Hey I like Cole, but he's older and his numbers have declined. he scored 51 points in 73 games last year, Cammalleri scored 47 in 63. Sorry Cammalleri right now is the younger and better player.

Everyone keeps telling me that Hemsky is going to hit 100 points, year after year. But he never does, give up that train. he's a nice player that hits 70 points and maybe 20 goals. Langkow is a consistant scorer who's come off of his second 30 point season, and guess what, hes a better two way player then Ales.

And Iginla versus Gagne, over rating Gagne a bit, he scored what 13 goals and 49 points, Iginla scored 50 and pretty much 100. This comparison is not even close until Gagne proves it.

gilbert might be better then Aucoin but we don't know because Gilbert's played one season, we'll see how he does when his defensive responsibilites ramp up

Right now I'll take the Flames defense, I'll take the Flames goaltending, and I'll take the Flames toughness.

Oiler fans can take their fantasies.


Last edited by Snoil11: 07-04-2008 at 01:22 PM. Reason: Flaming
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Old
07-04-2008, 01:20 PM
  #42
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Why do Oilers fans do this to themselves?

Remember that year they thought they would score 300 in 06/07? They ended up being dead last in the entire league.

The Oilers simply do not have a playoff worthy forward group. Gagne scores 13 goals in his full rookie season and you think he is as good as Iginla? Jesus Christ. That is ludicrous.

Flames lost 2 soft players who combined for 43 goals. Cammalleri scored 34 goals in his only full season, and the Flames changed their bottom six from guys who score 0-3 goals a season to guys that score 5-15 goals a season.

Quote me: The Flames will once again be the highest scoring team in the NW, or second if Colorado isnt plagued with injuries again.

No Oiler player will outscore Iginla or Cammalleri, only Hemsky will outscore Langkow (because of assists).

Gagne will get 14-17 goals and 40-45 points.

Flames forwards > Oilers Forwards

Offensively:
Flames Defencemen > Oilers Defencemen

Defensively:
Flames Defencemen >>> Oilers Defencemen

Flames Goaltending >> Oilers Goaltending (and thats if Kipper once again has his bad season)

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Old
07-04-2008, 02:34 PM
  #43
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Please tell me the last big FA signing Calgary had.
LOL

since when to fa signings mean everything

if you beleive the flames are crippled just becuase sutter refused to overpay for this years mediocre crop of fa's, you are sadly mistaken

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07-04-2008, 02:39 PM
  #44
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Northern Neighbour, Iginla is only 31, not 33.

And I seem to recall all tese illusions of grandeur and predictions from the Oilers last summer, too. They have a good young core but I don't honestly think that Gagner, Hemsky, Cogliano and Penner = what Pittsburgh or Washington have.

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07-04-2008, 02:43 PM
  #45
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Please tell me the last big FA signing Calgary had.
Daymond Langkow

And effectively,
Jarome Iginla
Robyn Regehr
Miikka Kiprusoff
Dion Phaneuf (RFA)

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07-04-2008, 02:53 PM
  #46
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Please tell me the last big FA signing Calgary had.
Why? Calgary retains their core, even during UFA status. Sutter has a plan; free agency isn't a huge part of it.

We're not the ones spending $3 million on a locker room, while at the same time looking cheap bickering about a measly couple hundred thousand on our heart-and-soul leader's contract.

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07-04-2008, 03:02 PM
  #47
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Please tell me the last big FA signing Calgary had.
Jeff Friesen, Tony Amonte, Owen Nolan, Anders Eriksson and so on

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Old
07-04-2008, 03:07 PM
  #48
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Jeff Friesen, Tony Amonte, Owen Nolan, Anders Eriksson and so on
Hamerlik.

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Old
07-04-2008, 03:08 PM
  #49
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LOL, another oiler board gem.

The oilers don't have a single elite player on the entire roster, let alone one at each position like the flames. They will once again be battling for 9th.

What a complete and utter farce.

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Old
07-04-2008, 03:14 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Flash Walken View Post
LOL, another oiler board gem.

The oilers don't have a single elite player on the entire roster, let alone one at each position like the flames. They will once again be battling for 9th.

What a complete and utter farce.
To be fair, Visnovsky and Souray are 1.2-dimensionally eliteish.

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