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Discussion: Flames vs. Oilers current line-up

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Old
07-04-2008, 03:31 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frequitude View Post
To be fair, Visnovsky and Souray are 1.2-dimensionally eliteish.
Visnovsky can be a elite d-man I agree, It seems this is the time of year for the Oiler trolls to come out in full force.

For those who have time check out this guy on the Flames Facebook group.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204431313

Ernesto is his name, funny stuff.


Last edited by Ticonderoga: 07-04-2008 at 04:00 PM.
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Old
07-04-2008, 03:45 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by frequitude View Post
To be fair, Visnovsky and Souray are 1.2-dimensionally eliteish.
Players off the top of my head that are better at their one dimension than those two:

Lidstrom
Phaneuf
Gonchar
Rafalski
Chara
Markov
Zubov

That's just off the top of my head. You could include Pronger, Schneider, Niedermayer, Salo, and Campbell, and they are all better Defensively than Souray and Vishnovsky.

Hell, I'd include Boyle, Redden, Bouwmeester, Jovo, Kaberle and Timmonen as better, also, and this is all just off the top of my head.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:09 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Classy Iggy View Post
Visnovsky can be a elite d-man I agree, It seems this is the time of year for the Oiler trolls to come out in full force.

For those who have time check out this guy on the Flames Facebook group.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204431313

Ernesto is his name, funny stuff.
That was funny. When did mexicans become hockey fans.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:10 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frequitude View Post
To be fair, Visnovsky and Souray are 1.2-dimensionally eliteish.
Those two combined are going to be a league worst -100. I was happy when the Coilers got Visnovsky. Every powerplay that the Oil have they are going to let in a short handed goal.

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07-04-2008, 04:19 PM
  #55
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For the poster who asked me who would I rather have, Spezza or Iginla?

My choice is easy, Spezza.

Not many player can hit 90+ Points twice in their career when they are 25, not to mention he has the ability to win an Art Ross Trophy.


So when you are comparing Gagner to Iginla, I would rather have Gagner.

Maybe its just me but.... I prefer a potential 100 point guy, who has tremendous hockey sense,great vision, great playmaking skills, on ice maturity at a very young age and hes going to be a No. 1 Centerman.

Sam Gagner is a Franchise Player

Jarome Iginla is a Franchise Player

Gags=Oiler
Iggy=Flame

And for that poster who said hemskys always predicted to get 100 points, no he is not.

I recall it taking Iginla 7 seasons to break out and hit 90+ points, Ales has another 4 years on his contract, if he can stay healthy, he can also break that barrier.

We always predict Hemsky to have a PPG season or 80 points, until hes 27-28, which he has already established.

This thread is getting useless, Oiler fans say different and Flames fans say different, so we are never going to be able to settle this.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:21 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
For the poster who asked me who would I rather have, Spezza or Iginla?

My choice is easy, Spezza.

Not many player can hit 90+ Points twice in their career when they are 25, not to mention he has the ability to win an Art Ross Trophy.
Obviously you only care about points...to you Savard is probably MVP
Spezza is extra soft

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07-04-2008, 04:24 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Flames 4 Life View Post
Those two combined are going to be a league worst -100. I was happy when the Coilers got Visnovsky. Every powerplay that the Oil have they are going to let in a short handed goal.
Wow you are absolutely ridiculous.

Oilers have better offense from the blueline then the flames do, other than your overrated defenseman named Phaneuf (You won't hear this from just Oilers fans) and a aging and declining defenseman named Adrian Aucoin, who else is going to provide Offense from the back end?

Id much rather watch a Team which has a great top line and 3 good complementary lines, then a team who has a Superb top line and three lines filled with Grinders/Oldies/Mediocre prospects.

If the Oilers are healthy then I see the NW being like this:
Minnesota
Edmonton
Calgary
Colorado
Vancouver

What secondary scoring do the flames have?


Last edited by Luongo4VP: 07-04-2008 at 04:35 PM.
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Old
07-04-2008, 04:24 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
This thread is getting useless, Oiler fans say different and Flames fans say different, so we are never going to be able to settle this.
agreed but not because it's Oilers vs Flames. It's because you project Gagner to Iginla level....while clearly he is no where at that level yet...what about the sophomore slump?

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:29 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
Obviously you only care about points...to you Savard is probably MVP
Spezza is extra soft
We have enough guys who can exemplify the intangibles that players such as Iginla have.

Lets see who can all fight:

Souray
Moreau
Smid
Cole (ive seen him scrap a few times)

Lets see who can all provide leadership:

Staios
Moreau
Horcoff
Souray
Visnovsky
Hemsky
Pisani
Cole

Lets see who all can play physical:

Cole
Moreau
Souray
Staios
Smid
Brodziak
Penner


We have other enough role players on the team, so Im much more intersted about developing elite talent in guys like Gags and Hemmer.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:31 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
agreed but not because it's Oilers vs Flames. It's because you project Gagner to Iginla level....while clearly he is no where at that level yet...what about the sophomore slump?
Doubt you will see that from Gagner, tons of hockey sense and playmakers are usually not the ones to go into sophomore slumps, scorers are.

Just ask you boy Jarome

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:34 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
Obviously you only care about points...to you Savard is probably MVP
Spezza is extra soft
I see Savard as an elite talent, not an MVP.

The reason I even brought up the potential of Gagner is because everyone is underrating the Oilers offense, we averaged like 5 goals the last quarter of the season.

I dont only care about points, although that is what primarily defines a player.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:47 PM
  #62
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What a laughable thread!
Vishnovski better than Phaneuf?
Ha! Hey LastoftheBest, maybe you should sit down and watch a Flames game once in awhile. You will notcie that Phaneuf, sometimes, will be the best and most dominant player on the ice for both teams at the tender age of 23. He scores in the clutch, intimidates opposition forwards, and can rush/pass the puck with ease. Not to mention he has been nominated for the Norris, and his point totals have been climbing every season, while Vishnovski's have fallen the last 3 seasons. Look it up.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:47 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Wow you are absolutely ridiculous.

Oilers have better offense from the blueline then the flames do, other than your overrated defenseman named Phaneuf (You won't hear this from just Oilers fans) and a aging and declining defenseman named Adrian Aucoin, who else is going to provide Offense from the back end?

Id much rather watch a Team which has a great top line and 3 good complementary lines, then a team who has a Superb top line and three lines filled with Grinders/Oldies/Mediocre prospects.

If the Oilers are healthy then I see the NW being like this:
Minnesota
Edmonton
Calgary
Colorado
Vancouver

What secondary scoring do the flames have?
So I say that those two defenseman are absolutely trash in their own end and you go on a secondary scoring tanget? Wow you are absolutely ridiculous.

If you have one line putting up massive numbers which the Flames 1st will do you don't need a prolific 2nd scoring line. If the rest of the team can produce 5-15 goals each we will still score more goals than the Oilers. And to answer your question I would rather watch the Flames 10/10 than the Coilers and their "scoring lines" (massively unproven to say that). They had one good year and you are thinking the Coilers youth is going to lead them to the division title. Give your head a shake.

And you talk about defense scoring. You do realize Phaneuf scored more goals and points than both of those two. Combine Aucoin and they killed those two. So your arguement is completely useless as stats dictate your ignorance.

The only thing in this entire thread that has an semblance of truth is that we are going to never agree. Well done 1/100.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:48 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
This thread is getting useless, Oiler fans say different and Flames fans say different, so we are never going to be able to settle this.

This thread was useless to begin with, given the fact that it's July 4th.

And regarding your comparisons, I can agree with you on some, but I also think you're completely out to lunch on others. C'mon now, Souray > Regehr? Visnovsky = Phaneuf? Yeah, I don't think so.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:53 PM
  #65
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Oh and Sam Gagne is or "will be" better than Iginla? HAHA!!.......oh man.
Gagne could not hold Jarome's jock, period.
We will see who ends up in the hall of fame and who doesn't.

Oh and Sheldon Souray will be out with injury by the 30 game mark or so. But he has such an awesome slapshot! Too bad he can't play DEFENSE.

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Old
07-04-2008, 04:55 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
For the poster who asked me who would I rather have, Spezza or Iginla?

My choice is easy, Spezza.

Not many player can hit 90+ Points twice in their career when they are 25, not to mention he has the ability to win an Art Ross Trophy.


So when you are comparing Gagner to Iginla, I would rather have Gagner.

Maybe its just me but.... I prefer a potential 100 point guy, who has tremendous hockey sense,great vision, great playmaking skills, on ice maturity at a very young age and hes going to be a No. 1 Centerman.

Sam Gagner is a Franchise Player

Jarome Iginla is a Franchise Player

Gags=Oiler
Iggy=Flame

And for that poster who said hemskys always predicted to get 100 points, no he is not.

I recall it taking Iginla 7 seasons to break out and hit 90+ points, Ales has another 4 years on his contract, if he can stay healthy, he can also break that barrier.

We always predict Hemsky to have a PPG season or 80 points, until hes 27-28, which he has already established.

This thread is getting useless, Oiler fans say different and Flames fans say different, so we are never going to be able to settle this.

I will laugh my ass of if your self proclaime franchise player "Gags" turns into the next one Daigle. I almost hope it happens just for comedic value.

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:14 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Flames 4 Life View Post
I will laugh my ass of if your self proclaime franchise player "Gags" turns into the next one Daigle. I almost hope it happens just for comedic value.
Wow you are the most ignorant poster ever, How about you restart this thread on the oilers forum?

They would say much different.

Also the Shames finished with 1 more win then the most injury-plaugued and third most inexperienced roster in the entire leaugue, what does that make you?

The Flames Forwards>Oilers Forwards, what a joke?

More like Flames Top Line> Oilers top line AS OF NOW

What makes you say that Gagner is going to be a bust, he will probably break out before Iginla did in the league.

He's already halfway to being a 100 Point player

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07-04-2008, 05:17 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Flames 4 Life View Post
I will laugh my ass of if your self proclaime franchise player "Gags" turns into the next one Daigle. I almost hope it happens just for comedic value.
Self-Proclaimed, ask any team before you say that you fool.

Sam Gagner:

Assets:What sets him apart from most players is his awesome vision and uncanny ability to always find the open man. Is a pure point producer.

Flaws:Is still too frail and needs to add bulk in order to win more battles in the corners. Must continue to work on his play without the puck.

Career Potential: FRANCHISE forward.

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:22 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Wow you are the most ignorant poster ever, How about you restart this thread on the oilers forum?

They would say much different.

Also the Shames finished with 1 more win then the most injury-plaugued and third most inexperienced roster in the entire leaugue, what does that make you?

The Flames Forwards>Oilers Forwards, what a joke?

More like Flames Top Line> Oilers top line AS OF NOW

What makes you say that Gagner is going to be a bust, he will probably break out before Iginla did in the league.

He's already halfway to being a 100 Point player
Dude you must not have a brain in your head.... YOU STARTED THIS THREAD IN THE FLAMES FORUM. Then you come trolling on here and then you call me ignorant. Come on man I know your from Edmonton but you should still have a little intelligence. Why I go to the Coilers thread and start this I know how it would end up (maybe because I have a brain) which leads me to my next question.... Why did you start this thread in the Flames forum expecting people to agree with you? I aint gonna ****in happen.

You keep on bringing up the one more win and then say that we got more points in the OT loses than you and thats why the Flames made the playoffs. Didn't something like 15-20 of your wins come in the way of a shoot out. So take out the shoot outs and you have 15-20 less wins than the Flames. We can go back and forth all day man but just use some intelligence and figure out that no self respecting Flames (or intteligent person) fan will agree that Ganger is gonna be better than Iggy. Or Souray is better than Regher. Or Visnovsky is equal to Phaneuf.

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:28 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames 4 Life View Post
So I say that those two defenseman are absolutely trash in their own end and you go on a secondary scoring tanget? Wow you are absolutely ridiculous.

If you have one line putting up massive numbers which the Flames 1st will do you don't need a prolific 2nd scoring line. If the rest of the team can produce 5-15 goals each we will still score more goals than the Oilers. And to answer your question I would rather watch the Flames 10/10 than the Coilers and their "scoring lines" (massively unproven to say that). They had one good year and you are thinking the Coilers youth is going to lead them to the division title. Give your head a shake.

And you talk about defense scoring. You do realize Phaneuf scored more goals and points than both of those two. Combine Aucoin and they killed those two. So your arguement is completely useless as stats dictate your ignorance.

The only thing in this entire thread that has an semblance of truth is that we are going to never agree. Well done 1/100.

Do the Flames have any youth that Can match:

Gagner
Hemsky
Cogliano
Gilbert
Nilsson
Brule
Schremp
Grebeshkov
Smid
Brodziak
Penner
Potulny
Pouliot

And when I say youth I mean players 26 and under.

Lets see who the Flames have got

Camalleri
Lombardi
Phaneuf
Bourque
Pelech
Greentree
Nystrom
Boyd
Mcelhinney
Prust
Moss
Glencross
Keetly
Negrin

Outside of Celine,Lombo and Camalleri, the others are all laughable prospects.

Everyone on our list (excluding Schremp) has had experience in the NHL and all have proven themselves as Talent/Upside

Now the Flames?

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:33 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames 4 Life View Post
Dude you must not have a brain in your head.... YOU STARTED THIS THREAD IN THE FLAMES FORUM. Then you come trolling on here and then you call me ignorant. Come on man I know your from Edmonton but you should still have a little intelligence. Why I go to the Coilers thread and start this I know how it would end up (maybe because I have a brain) which leads me to my next question.... Why did you start this thread in the Flames forum expecting people to agree with you? I aint gonna ****in happen.

You keep on bringing up the one more win and then say that we got more points in the OT loses than you and thats why the Flames made the playoffs. Didn't something like 15-20 of your wins come in the way of a shoot out. So take out the shoot outs and you have 15-20 less wins than the Flames. We can go back and forth all day man but just use some intelligence and figure out that no self respecting Flames (or intteligent person) fan will agree that Ganger is gonna be better than Iggy. Or Souray is better than Regher. Or Visnovsky is equal to Phaneuf.
OMFG, I didn't come here to say that Gagner is BETTER then Iginla, but that he has the potential to be a 100 Point player.

Im just comparing our Franchise players, thats all.

Most people would agree with me (most of them did) on the Oilers board that We have a better Offense Core, Our Defenses are pretty even overall and that the Flames have the better Goaltender.

I didn't come here to start ****, this is what us Oiler Fans say.

Sorry for trolling BTW, I admit it was wrong of me.

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:34 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post

Souray> Regehr since Regehr has like hardly any offensive talent. They both play similar styles and are adequate puck-movers
Souray is better than Regehr offensively yes... but Regehr is better than Souray in every other aspect of the game... he is superior physically and defensively... he is a better leader and less injury prone

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Visnovsky=Phaneuf, Both have great shots, Lubos a great puck-mover/Mobile, Phaneuf is very raw and physical, both are improving defensively and Lubos known to throw some good hits.
how do you figure? Phaneuf came closer to the Norris in his rookie season than Vishnovsky has in his entire career... they may be on level playing fields offensively but Phaneuf dwarfs Visnovsky physically and is improving where Visnovsky has peaked

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Gilbert> Aucoin, I would prefer Gilbert anyday over Aucoin, Gilbert is young has tremendous upside, Solid Puck-mover. Aucoin is on a steady decline and is no longer an impact defenseman
how is it a steady decline when his last season was an improvement over his previous 2?... i'm no genius but a decline means its getting worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Grebeshkov>Giordano, Its hard to compare these two, however I would say both are solid puck-movers and can play against some tough opposition. Giordano displays some good puck-movement and is mobile, Grebs has great Puck-moving skills and skating ability, he can also play physical and can play in all game situations. Much Like Visnovksy and Gilbert in that sense, but not as talented nor statistical. Grebs is much more reliable however.
if Grebs is as physical as Visnovsky then he is just as physical as Giordano... or not at al

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Smid> Vandermeer, they play similar similar games, get in scraps, but Smid is a great skater and decent puck-mover which gives him the slight advantage.
again how are they similar? Smid is a puck moving defenseman... Vandermeer is a bruiser

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
Staios=Sarich, they are both similar as well, both physical, good leaders, play defense-first game, but are adequate puck-movers and not the most mobile.
Sarich > Staios... Sarich is younger and quicker... both are an asset though

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastoftheBest11 View Post
So how do you say you have a significant edge defensively?
easily because we actually know what defense is... and we understand teh differences in the styles of game between different defenders much better than you obviously do

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:37 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
Souray is better than Regehr offensively yes... but Regehr is better than Souray in every other aspect of the game... he is superior physically and defensively... he is a better leader and less injury prone

how do you figure? Phaneuf came closer to the Norris in his rookie season than Vishnovsky has in his entire career... they may be on level playing fields offensively but Phaneuf dwarfs Visnovsky physically and is improving where Visnovsky has peaked

how is it a steady decline when his last season was an improvement over his previous 2?... i'm no genius but a decline means its getting worse

if Grebs is as physical as Visnovsky then he is just as physical as Giordano... or not at al

again how are they similar? Smid is a puck moving defenseman... Vandermeer is a bruiser

Sarich > Staios... Sarich is younger and quicker... both are an asset though

easily because we actually know what defense is... and we understand teh differences in the styles of game between different defenders much better than you obviously do
Defense also means Puck-Movement, which the Flames lack and the Oilers Boast.

In the Physical/Defensive Aspect of the game, you are better.

In the Puck-Moving/Offensive Aspect of the game, we are better

IM HAVING TO REPEAT THAT SAME POINT OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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07-04-2008, 05:39 PM
  #74
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I would also like to add the only change in the Flames defense is Giordano in for Hale and a full year of vandermeer... the Oilers see Pitkanen go and Visnovsky come in... i say defensively its a wash as both are turnover machines...

so where has Edmonton's DEFENSE actually improved?... they finished 26th in GA last season... that on the back of a career year from Garon... the Flames finished 16th... on the back of an underachieving goaltender... to me that screams Calgary's defense > Edmonton's defense... if Garon even has an average season the Oilers are screwed defensively... the Flames showed last season even with Kipper struggling they will finish middle of the pack defensively

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07-04-2008, 05:41 PM
  #75
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Woah...

Well it's easy to compare teams on paper, but who's knows who will have a great seasn and who won't.

It's gonna be interesting and I damn exited for the battle of Alberta.

I personally don't think Nolan will re-sign.

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