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can someone enlighten me on this question

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Old
07-04-2008, 05:18 PM
  #1
Ryulink
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can someone enlighten me on this question

What a center needs to be considered as a 1st line center, 2nd line center and 3rd line center?

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07-04-2008, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryulink View Post
What a center needs to be considered as a 1st line center, 2nd line center and 3rd line center?
Hockey talent ? The better you are offensively, the higher your line will be, it's that simple.

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07-04-2008, 05:23 PM
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Galchenyuk x 27
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if you dont know the answer to that question, I must ask you, what kind of hockey fan are you?

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07-04-2008, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
if you dont know the answer to that question, I must ask you, what kind of hockey fan are you?
Right, maybe you should start a petition to have an admission exam on HF so that people who doesn't know a lot about hockey can't register.

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07-04-2008, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
Right, maybe you should start a petition to have an admission exam on HF so that people who doesn't know a lot about hockey can't register.
we couldnt do that as it would exclude too many leafs fans

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07-04-2008, 05:39 PM
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Ryulink
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Originally Posted by Jaydee96 View Post
if you dont know the answer to that question, I must ask you, what kind of hockey fan are you?
Well i could answer to this question myself. But i would like to see how you guys the differences between a 1st line center and 2nd line center.
Because some people consider Koivu like Plekanec and Marleau as 2nd line center.
But i see them as passable 1st line center. I think people around 70pts+ are 1st line centers. 60 - 40pts = 2nd line centers.

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07-04-2008, 05:49 PM
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It's just a stupid label.

If you have these lines:
Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev
Tanguay-Koivu-Kostitsyn

Who's your first line? You could argue either way. The fact is that different lines have different roles according to the skill of the player on the line. Just because Dupuis plays with Crosby doesn't mean he's a "1st liner." The whole # thing is just a way for silly people to wrap their minds around "who's better"

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07-04-2008, 05:50 PM
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Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryulink View Post
Well i could answer to this question myself. But i would like to see how you guys the differences between a 1st line center and 2nd line center.
Because some people consider Koivu like Plekanec and Marleau as 2nd line center.
But i see them as passable 1st line center. I think people around 70pts+ are 1st line centers. 60 - 40pts = 2nd line centers.
It doesn't have to do with points so much as talent.
When Crosby went down last season, Malkin became the first line center. Sykora on his wing, I doubt anybody considers Sykora a 1st liner. Same can be said about Satan for next year.

Koivu-Plekanec-Marleau are 2nd line centers. If you have 2 of those with balanced wingers, it makes for a pretty even set of top6 players.
Just like we'll have next year with Koivu-Tanguay-A.Kost-Plek-Kovalev and S.Kost/Higgins/Lats.

In terms of raw talent/strenght/potential, neither Koivu or Plekanec or even Marleau should be considered as Top centers in this league.

Is Cheechoo a top winger because of his 52G season?

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07-04-2008, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Koivu-Plekanec-Marleau are 2nd line centers.
Plekanec was 22nd in Center scoring, if he had 3 more points he'd be 16th. By definition, there's only 15 "1st line" centers in a league where 30 "1st lines" exist? He was also 14th in goals for a center, 3 more goals and he'd be 7th. Not to mention he can score or set up shorty's on a good pace

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07-04-2008, 06:36 PM
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It's a very fair question, because people apply the labels in wildly different ways. Like some guy called Marleau and Plekanec 2nd line centers in this thread, when many people consider them 1st liners.

If you're looking for a really, really, general rule of thumb, here's the trend I seem to notice:

1st line: 80 pts a season, or 70 pts a season and a good 2-way player, or strong power game.
2nd line: 60 pts a season, or 50 + 2-way/power.
3rd line: Pretty much anyone who isn't a goon/agitator/useless, or someone who is but puts up 40+ points.
4th line: Goons and Agitators.

But really, they're just labels. A 1st liner to me is anyone I wouldn't mind playing on my team's best line. Totally subjective.

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07-04-2008, 06:49 PM
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Quiet Robert
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The trouble is for some fans "1st line center" is synonymous with "elite" center. In other words, nobobdy past Crosby, Malkin, Thornton, Lecavalier, Spezza and Zetteberg is derserving of the title. Guys who would be a 1st liner on nearly any team in the league. For me this view is a sign of a fan who views the game simplistically.

Then some people prefer a more stats based approach were anybody in the top 30 is generally considered a top line center. So you get guys from Crosby to Arnott being considered 1st liners. This is a little more helpful, but still doesn't leave room for the nuances of the rankings.

The reality is it's just a label and getting heated over it is generally not very productive. For me there are different tiers within the top 30 or top 50 at any position and once you start analyzing the players you can come up with a list.

Past the elite 6-8 guys, you have another tier, then another one etc...So Staal is a 1st line center on most teams, but he's not in the Crosby/Thornton. Plekanec is probably in the 3rd tier, but still doesn't look out of place on our top line. He's not as good as Staal, Getzlaf etc...but he plays a solid game and more importantly doesn't look out place playing on the top line. I think that may be the key; as long as a player fits into his role, he can be labeled 1st, 2nd or 3rd liner. Not all 1st liners are equal in talent, but as long as they are comfortable on the top line, it seems that calling "1st liners" is not out of place.

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07-04-2008, 07:02 PM
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JrHockeyFan
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I love some of the answers, but isn't it funny how everybody will agree more on what a first line center would be, but argue like hell exactly who fits that bill!

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07-04-2008, 07:27 PM
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Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
Plekanec was 22nd in Center scoring, if he had 3 more points he'd be 16th. By definition, there's only 15 "1st line" centers in a league where 30 "1st lines" exist? He was also 14th in goals for a center, 3 more goals and he'd be 7th. Not to mention he can score or set up shorty's on a good pace
That's great and all, but fact is he finished 22nd.
Had he gotten 3extra points, he'd still have finished 16th right?..So even by definition, he would have been 1position short of classifying.

If Kostitsyn had 1 extra goal, he'd be a 30goal scorer. Same can be about Higgins had he scored 3more.

It's not about the pts as I said. Its about the potential.
Koivu had the potential to become a 1st line center, but we all know what happened to him during his career, on top of playing for the crappiest MTL teams.
As for Plekanec, I really doubt he can give more than what he gave last year. The only upside is that Plek has been consistently surprising season after season, so we'll see how he does next year.

But trying to make a pt in terms of points is ridiculous. Jokinen didn't crack the top 15 for pts either. Sometimes, it just doesn't matter.

Plek started out as a good 3rd line center, he now centers our first line. On another team, he might be a 2nd liner, on others a 1st.

To me, a Top line center should always have big size or strength. There are exceptions im sure but i don't consider Koivu or Plek one of them.

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07-04-2008, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
That's great and all, but fact is he finished 22nd.
Had he gotten 3extra points, he'd still have finished 16th right?..So even by definition, he would have been 1position short of classifying.

If Kostitsyn had 1 extra goal, he'd be a 30goal scorer. Same can be about Higgins had he scored 3more.

It's not about the pts as I said. Its about the potential.
Koivu had the potential to become a 1st line center, but we all know what happened to him during his career, on top of playing for the crappiest MTL teams.
As for Plekanec, I really doubt he can give more than what he gave last year. The only upside is that Plek has been consistently surprising season after season, so we'll see how he does next year.

But trying to make a pt in terms of points is ridiculous. Jokinen didn't crack the top 15 for pts either. Sometimes, it just doesn't matter.

Plek started out as a good 3rd line center, he now centers our first line. On another team, he might be a 2nd liner, on others a 1st.

To me, a Top line center should always have big size or strength. There are exceptions im sure but i don't consider Koivu or Plek one of them.
So according to you 22nd is not a first line centre... you have to crack the top 15?? Hmm... strange how there are 15 teams out there who don't have a first line centre... Does their first line only have 4 people on it.... Is that why our PP is so good; other teams are SH all the time.

By definition there are 30 first line centres in the NHL.... Plekanec is one of them.

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07-04-2008, 09:17 PM
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It all depends according to whom...

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07-04-2008, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
So according to you 22nd is not a first line centre... you have to crack the top 15?? Hmm... strange how there are 15 teams out there who don't have a first line centre... Does their first line only have 4 people on it.... Is that why our PP is so good; other teams are SH all the time.

By definition there are 30 first line centres in the NHL.... Plekanec is one of them.
so the leafs' first line center will be Grabovski??? (Stajan or Steen!)

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07-04-2008, 09:20 PM
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so the leafs' first line center will be Grabovski??? (Stajan or Steen!)
Not if they don't finish in the top 30 in scoring... then they are not legit first line centres... It is possible that a team will not have a legit first line centre. Some teams will have two legit first line centres... Pittsburgh with Crosby and Malkin do.

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07-04-2008, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Not if they don't finish in the top 30 in scoring... then they are not legit first line centres... It is possible that a team will not have a legit first line centre. Some teams will have two legit first line centres... Pittsburgh with Crosby and Malkin do.
I was just kiddin' Beaker

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Old
07-04-2008, 09:30 PM
  #19
znk
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A true number one center can play against any center on the opposing team under any circumstances and still produce.

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Old
07-04-2008, 09:39 PM
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A true number one center can play against any center on the opposing team under any circumstances and still produce.
sounds good to me

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