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Salary Cap System Needs to be Changed (Re: Jagr)

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Old
07-05-2008, 02:05 PM
  #76
Preach
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Originally Posted by TorFC-TML View Post
Way to disprove your own sentiment.
You've totally misunderstood.

If that age 35 term in the CBA did not exist, and there was still a cap, there would be a greater chance that the Rangers or any other team would offer Jagr a longer term, which is the most important matter to him. Rangers can buy him out if he decides to leave, and it wouldn't count (or not as much) towards anything.

Try to think a little harder before you post next time.

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07-05-2008, 02:07 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Preach View Post
You've totally misunderstood.

If that age 35 term in the CBA did not exist, and there was still a cap, there would be a greater chance that the Rangers or any other team would offer Jagr a longer term, which is the most important matter to him. Rangers can buy him out if he decides to leave, and it wouldn't count towards anything.

Try to think a little harder before you post next time.
So what you are saying is that the CBA is flawed and is prematurely driving players out of the leauge.

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07-05-2008, 02:10 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by TorFC-TML View Post
So what you are saying is that the CBA is flawed and is prematurely driving players out of the leauge.
because of certain terms (or lack thereof, ie., dealing with salary inflation).. perhaps. but not so much because of the salary cap.

the salary cap just makes everything a little harder to operate, but it certainly wasn't the main reason why it drove Jagr out of the NHL.

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07-05-2008, 02:19 PM
  #79
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07-05-2008, 02:23 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Avy View Post
The most funny thing is that its Kasper, a career 3-4 defender who was born in cccp was moaning about travels during lockout but superstars like Vinny, Jagr said only good things... Jagr was so pleased he actually promised to come back in Omsk after lockout. Jagr and Kasparaitis, so-called "diva" and tough dude.
Vinny said he would never play in Russia again, that it was a second rate league concerning players treatment. Complained about almost everything (in French, so maybe this didn't get press in TB). Among different things, he said there was one rink where there was no heating, rats and no toilets, only holes in the ground. He also complained about bad medical diagnostics and players uninformed they were at risk of worsening their injuries. He said there was a few teams and cities that were closer to NHL quality, but overall it was clearly a notch below.

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07-05-2008, 02:28 PM
  #81
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He's not "my" GM. I couldn't care less about the Rangers. What I care about is the NHL and this is only the beginning of legit stars fleeing the NHL in droves.
The sky is falling!


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07-05-2008, 02:44 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Avy View Post
The most funny thing is that its Kasper, a career 3-4 defender who was born in cccp was moaning about travels during lockout but superstars like Vinny, Jagr said only good things... Jagr was so pleased he actually promised to come back in Omsk after lockout. Jagr and Kasparaitis, so-called "diva" and tough dude.
Kaspar was not complaining about it. He just told it like it was. I asked him and he told me. He also went on to talk about how much he enjoyed playing there.

He wanted to sign in the NHL again because his daughter lives here. When it became apparent it was not a possibility, he signed again with SKA for a very good amount.

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07-05-2008, 02:49 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Darkside Cowboy View Post
Vinny said he would never play in Russia again, that it was a second rate league concerning players treatment. Complained about almost everything (in French, so maybe this didn't get press in TB). Among different things, he said there was one rink where there was no heating, rats and no toilets, only holes in the ground. He also complained about bad medical diagnostics and players uninformed they were at risk of worsening their injuries. He said there was a few teams and cities that were closer to NHL quality, but overall it was clearly a notch below.
Dunno i remember he said quality of players was good and he was pleased with his treatment. It was 3 years ago a lot of changed since lockout.

Look at how 90% of UFAs in NHL avoid such places like Edmonton. Guess what? There is just as much difference between Moscow, St. Petersburg and Magnitogorsk, Kazan as between NY and Edmonton .


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07-05-2008, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkside Cowboy View Post
Vinny said he would never play in Russia again, that it was a second rate league concerning players treatment. Complained about almost everything (in French, so maybe this didn't get press in TB). Among different things, he said there was one rink where there was no heating, rats and no toilets, only holes in the ground. He also complained about bad medical diagnostics and players uninformed they were at risk of worsening their injuries. He said there was a few teams and cities that were closer to NHL quality, but overall it was clearly a notch below.


http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/27/Li...nslation.shtml

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"The first couple weeks were bad, really hard. I wondered if I had made a mistake," Lecavalier said. "Couldn't sleep because of the time change. Couldn't talk to people back home because of the time change. But four or five months later, it's fine. I like it. I'd come back again."
It does talk about some troublesome aspects:

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The worst are the ones in the farthest outposts, such as Siberia. One rink was so cold that Lecavalier never broke a sweat and his feet were frozen for the entire game.

"They had one shower," said Kazan goalie Fred Brathwaite, a native of Ottawa and former goalie for four NHL teams. "And when I say "shower,' I mean like a spigot you would find in a kitchen sink just sticking out of the ceiling. Take one guess if the water was hot or not."

The hotels in Moscow and St. Petersburg are endurable. Everywhere else in the 16-team league is hit-or-miss. Sometimes the food is inedible. Often the bathrooms are small and dirty. Almost always, Lecavalier's 6-foot-4 frame spills over the mattress.

Players often bring their own towels on road trips. Before one trip, the players were told they might want to bring a toilet seat. On another trip, Lecavalier needed his own toilet.

After a road game in Siberia in January, Lecavalier was hit hard by the flu at a decrepit airport and needed a bathroom. Immediately.

Pointed to a room, Lecavalier raced through the door only to find a hole in the floor. When he was done, Lecavalier, with no Charmin in sight, had no choice but to sift through his wallet and find the smallest denomination of bills. It cost him about 100 rubles, or about three bucks and change.

Lecavalier's flu became so severe he had to be hospitalized for a day and treated with IVs in Kazan.

"That hospital ... I felt like I was in the 1930s in some old Hollywood movie," Lecavalier said. "It was really old. Some general came and got me and brought me into the room. I was the only guy with a room. All the rest, the military people, were in one big room with the beds lined up next to each other. They were carrying people on old stretchers. I felt like it was World War II."


"Much of the time, the referees are paid off," Kovalev said. "You can tell a few minutes into the game. If you see a bunch of penalties early in the game against one team, then it's, "Oh, looks like someone got to him.' If it's even early, not too many penalties, then you know the game is on the level. Still, it's dirty out there, way more dirty than the NHL. And it's slower.

"Overall, it's not as fun or exciting as the NHL, but it still can be good when it is played right."

"It is a different game over here," Lecavalier said. "The ice is bigger, but the buildings are smaller. You're used to playing in front of 18,000, and some nights you might play before a couple of thousand or a few hundred. I like the NHL better. With all the hooking and slashing and clutching and grabbing over here, I'll never complain about the NHL again."

"I've only been here a month, and I'm about ready to head home," Heatley said. "I can't imagine Vinny, who has been here since November."
Could things have changed drastically in 3 years? Possibly, but probably not. They are most likely still moving towards their goals.

Any chance you could find those articles in French? I'd try, but I don't speak French in the least.

This article does highlight why a lot of NHLers may not want to go over, the same reason a lot of Russian players don't take to life in NA. Some adapt better to new cultures.




Can anybody recall what goalie this is: He was playing in Europe during the lockout and was injured during a playoff game. He was treated by the opposing teams medical staff who gave him a cortisone shot. Unbeknownst to the player, cortisone shots were considered a steroid. While legal, there was a grace period of a few weeks or so before he could play again. So the starting goaltender was effectively removed from the series by the opposing teams' medical staff.


Last edited by Heat McManus: 07-05-2008 at 03:03 PM.
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07-05-2008, 02:57 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Vakar Lajos View Post
Kaspar was not complaining about it. He just told it like it was. I asked him and he told me. He also went on to talk about how much he enjoyed playing there.

He wanted to sign in the NHL again because his daughter lives here. When it became apparent it was not a possibility, he signed again with SKA for a very good amount.
He complained about this in russian newspapers. I like him but he just that kind of person. Zillion players from Europe and NA and i can't remember somebody complaining about this stuff (hotels etc) last year but Kasper (he is almost russian) likes to cry.

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07-05-2008, 02:58 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by TorFC-TML View Post
This is basically it. Greatness begets greatness. Allow the worlds best talent to flourish playing alongside equally skilled players and reap the benefits of amazing hockey and the cultivation of truly great talent and franchises.

The soccer world has never had any sort of salary cap or 'parity' and its only managed to become the most popular sport on the planet.

I cant wait until the KHL forces the NHL to allow its member organizations to use their resources for the betterment of the game and not for the life support of franchises that cant compete.
No cap = 24 teams in the NHL relying on trapping, defensive hockey to compete with the teams that buy up all the superstars.

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07-05-2008, 03:00 PM
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Uhh? I made it up!

No, Dave Kings book talks a lot about it the medical staff being behind the NHL. Some appear to be old-school Soviet guys that were not very forthcoming about how they were dealing with the players. It's not all of them, but some of them.
Ahh, yeah, I remember him saying "I don't want to know what they are feeding them", or somethinng like that. Then, again, may be the problem is that King can't ask, and those guys can't answer in a common language, or King would not understand what a "Ginger blahh blahh blahh Energy Additive" is.

He really makes it sound like there is a systemic doping going on, which I don't buy, sorry. Or all those players would go bust in the first Euro Tour tourney.

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He told me SKA gave them to him because the players are the ones carrying them through customs, sometimes into the locker room.
OK, Kasper will survive. You can't really give this one as an evidence of "lower equipment staff level"

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07-05-2008, 03:02 PM
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He complained about this in russian newspapers. I like him but he just that kind of person. Zillion players from Europe and NA and i can't remember somebody complaining about this stuff (hotels etc) last year but Kasper (he is almost russian) likes to cry.
Well, hotels are several notches below in small towns (Cherepovets, Nizhnekamsk, etc)

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07-05-2008, 03:07 PM
  #89
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Bingo.

The salary would count against the cap no matter if the player retired, got injured, or was sent to the minors.

"I wanted to go home in three years so I was looking for a three-year contract if I wanted to stay here," said Jagr. "But it looks like with the new CBA, it's tough for older guys to sign long-term contracts because teams are worried you're going to get injured or retire and they're stuck with the salary on the salary cap."
As Jagr pointed out, the CBA stipulates that players 35 and over have their full contracts count against the salary cap even if the player retires midway through or gets hit by a bus.

"So it was too tough for any team to sign me to a three-year contract," said Jagr. "But I didn't want to do a one-year deal because I didn't want to go through the same thing again next summer. Because I really didn't enjoy this."


http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=...ticleid=367813
Thanks for the link. I knew the over-35 clause was stupid when it became an issue with the Malakhov, and not just because it would hurt the Devils.

Even Joe Sakic, the epitome of the "character player" and a North American (so highly doubtful he would retire from the NHL to play in Europe) has been forced to sign a string of one-year deals.

I do expect this to be changed in the next CBA.

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07-05-2008, 03:08 PM
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2. In a capless world a large market with great revenues wouldnt face the prospect of relegation because they would be able to afford good enough players. The fear that a capless NHL would lead to the Rangers, Leafs, Wings or other big market teams being relegated is completely insane.
Really? Pre-lockout Rangers ring a bell?

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07-05-2008, 03:09 PM
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Ahh, yeah, I remember him saying "I don't want to know what they are feeding them", or somethinng like that. Then, again, may be the problem is that King can't ask, and those guys can't answer in a common language, or King would not understand what a "Ginger blahh blahh blahh Energy Additive" is.

He really makes it sound like there is a systemic doping going on, which I don't buy, sorry. Or all those players would go bust in the first Euro Tour tourney.



OK, Kasper will survive. You can't really give this one as an evidence of "lower equipment staff level"
King had a pretty long battle with one of the guys there.

I repeat what I said, I don't think there is necessarily a difference in skill level as what the job requirements are. The fact that the players are carrying their bags everywhere is indicative that their equipment teams aren't required to do as much.

They don't pamper their players as much.

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07-05-2008, 03:10 PM
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I'm sure it's an exaggeration, but the story of Lecavalier getting a toilet before going on a road trip is a great image. I can imagine him dragging one on a hand cart at the airport.

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