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Correlation between payroll and regualr season standing 2003/2004

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Old
06-04-2004, 12:36 PM
  #326
copperandblue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
Because how fans perceive their teams chances at winning is more important (as far as ticket sales are concerned) than the winning itself.
That's an interesting point. Conversely look at Vancouver, they are seeing great success with attendance despite the team not have much success on the ice.

The fans there seem to be looking at the decent regular season success and are buying into the notion that it will translate into post season success.

They are selling out on the idea that the team can win the cup, even if they are the only ones.

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06-04-2004, 12:41 PM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
That's an interesting point. Conversely look at Vancouver, they are seeing great success with attendance despite the team not have much success on the ice.

The fans there seem to be looking at the decent regular season success and are buying into the notion that it will translate into post season success.

They are selling out on the idea that the team can win the cup, even if they are the only ones.
Nothing really surprising there. The goods and services are sold based on the consumers perceptions, not on the actual quality of the goods. (That's marketing)

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06-04-2004, 10:51 PM
  #328
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i suppose we all got tired of hearing ourselves say the same thing.

RIP, you were a good thread.

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06-04-2004, 11:17 PM
  #329
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anyhow, who cares. the bottom line is fans should not support a cap because to get a cap, the owners must kill NHL hockey for a number or years, if not forever. why support such "scorched earth" plans instead of pressuring the owners to come up with a different alternative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stich
Now... why do you think that we dont here owners complaining about competition?

Can you honestly say that you dont think that the owners of Florida, Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Carolina, and even a team such as Calgary feel like their cup chances are over before the seasons even starts?

The reason you don't here owners talking about competition problems is because the financial problems are so bad that everything else is secondary. Until player salaries take up considerably less than the 75% of total revenues that they're taking up now the focus will and it should stay on the financial problems of the league.
Quote:
you didnt answer my question though.

secondly, i dont believe those teams start the year feeling their cup chances are over before the season starts and i dont think the fans do either. stop being so dramatic.

dr
he did answer your question, you're just so proplayer that you can't or don't want to see it, and frankly his answer was what many have been saying for quite a time now, the only way the league will get closer to being financially sound is if the total players' salaries dont' take up 3/4 of the total revenue brought into the game, your argument is well they play the game which brings in the revenue so they should be entitled... but that in and of itself means that no matter how well the team does, the players would get complete profits, the owners would be paying and paying and paying and the only money that wouldn't go to the players would go to the staff needed to run the front offices, buildings, etc... there'd be no money in the league at all, so in that case, if the players deserve the money they bring in then why pay them a salary... start paying a player for how much merchandise he sells... heck, most players say they play the game cause they love to play the game... so if they love the game SO much they won't care about losing their salaries right???... determine how many jersey's each sells and put that money in their hands... there ya go, they should be happy right??? WRONG... the financial system needs to be changed, no one is saying the owners aren't guilty of it, what we're saying is yes the owners are guilty, but the league as a whole, players and owners, need to toss some things into the ring to make this league work and 99% of what i've read on your posts have been 'the owners fault the owners gotta fix; the players shouldn't do jack diddly' not an attack on you, just sumarizing many of what made me quit responding to a couple threads cause we just kept going round and round on the same issue, while you made some valid points, you didn't seem to see the points i was making

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06-05-2004, 12:44 AM
  #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221
he did answer your question, you're just so proplayer that you can't or don't want to see it, and frankly his answer was what many have been saying for quite a time now, the only way the league will get closer to being financially sound is if the total players' salaries dont' take up 3/4 of the total revenue brought into the game, your argument is well they play the game which brings in the revenue so they should be entitled... but that in and of itself means that no matter how well the team does, the players would get complete profits, the owners would be paying and paying and paying and the only money that wouldn't go to the players would go to the staff needed to run the front offices, buildings, etc... there'd be no money in the league at all, so in that case, if the players deserve the money they bring in then why pay them a salary... start paying a player for how much merchandise he sells... heck, most players say they play the game cause they love to play the game... so if they love the game SO much they won't care about losing their salaries right???... determine how many jersey's each sells and put that money in their hands... there ya go, they should be happy right??? WRONG... the financial system needs to be changed, no one is saying the owners aren't guilty of it, what we're saying is yes the owners are guilty, but the league as a whole, players and owners, need to toss some things into the ring to make this league work and 99% of what i've read on your posts have been 'the owners fault the owners gotta fix; the players shouldn't do jack diddly' not an attack on you, just sumarizing many of what made me quit responding to a couple threads cause we just kept going round and round on the same issue, while you made some valid points, you didn't seem to see the points i was making
well at the end of the day, i dont care about the players any more than i care about any other professional. what i do care is that by insisting on a cap, the only outcome that will come is no NHL hockey. I want to see us fans more concerend with pressuring the owners to find a solution "other than a cap" in order to not kill the season.

if the owners come to the table with an offer that doesnt include a cap and the players reject it, than I promise to shift the focus of my anger about killing NHL hockey to the players.

however at this time, the owners are the only ones who are responsible for killing NHL hockey and thats why I am anti cap.

dr

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Old
06-07-2004, 12:07 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by DementedReality
well at the end of the day, i dont care about the players any more than i care about any other professional. what i do care is that by insisting on a cap, the only outcome that will come is no NHL hockey. I want to see us fans more concerend with pressuring the owners to find a solution "other than a cap" in order to not kill the season.

if the owners come to the table with an offer that doesnt include a cap and the players reject it, than I promise to shift the focus of my anger about killing NHL hockey to the players.

however at this time, the owners are the only ones who are responsible for killing NHL hockey and thats why I am anti cap.

dr
Wow! I missed quite a bit of time and some very interesting points. Kudos to oilswell and ginner, you have both presented some very logical arguments.

I agree with dr that as hockey fans, we all want there to be a season now and in the future. The main problem is that the owners can't solve it themselves, the players need to be part of the solution. Putting pressure on any one side of the CBA issue is not going to solve anything, but may prolong it since the other side will believe they have the fans support and can therefore make less sacrifices.

And as for an earlier post about the owners and GM's not complaining about the competetiveness issue, think about this. If the CBA is adjusted and all teams have to work on the same budget, the competetiveness issue is fixed. If they come out complaining about the competetiveness issue, the fans hear this, know that certain teams have little chance of making the playoffs, why would those fans want to buy tickets? The players hear this also, why play hard when management says they don't have a chance? The salary issue is the real heart of the problem, so that is where the owners focus is. Focusing on the competetiveness makes things worse...

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06-07-2004, 12:37 AM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
If the CBA is adjusted and all teams have to work on the same budget, the competetiveness issue is fixed....
well, the NBA has a cap and damn if the Lakers arent gunning for their 4th champiomship in 5 years.

hasnt helped ATL fans at all, has it ? seems they are always dealing whatever talent that luck into. how about Golden State ? a CAP didnt help ORlando keep Shaq. pardon my simpleton canadian knowledge of the NBA, but it seems to me that the doormats are still doormats and the competition is limited to the big market cities.

its like fans think a cap is the answer to everything. be careful what you wish for.

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06-07-2004, 07:37 AM
  #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
well, the NBA has a cap and damn if the Lakers arent gunning for their 4th champiomship in 5 years.

hasnt helped ATL fans at all, has it ? seems they are always dealing whatever talent that luck into. how about Golden State ? a CAP didnt help ORlando keep Shaq. pardon my simpleton canadian knowledge of the NBA, but it seems to me that the doormats are still doormats and the competition is limited to the big market cities.

its like fans think a cap is the answer to everything. be careful what you wish for.

dr
The Lakers aren't winning gunning for their 4th championship in 5 years because they are in a large market.

They are doing so because they have arguably the best 2 players in basketball and they have rules within their cap that help teams retain their players. If the it was Memphis that had Shaq and Kobe, they'd be able to reap the benefits of that rule just like Los Angeles is right now.

LA, Sacremento, Minnesota, Dallas, Portland, San Antonio

There's the best 5 WC teams over the past 5 or so years. Hmm... 2 big markets.

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Old
06-07-2004, 09:37 AM
  #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
well, the NBA has a cap and damn if the Lakers arent gunning for their 4th champiomship in 5 years.

hasnt helped ATL fans at all, has it ? seems they are always dealing whatever talent that luck into. how about Golden State ? a CAP didnt help ORlando keep Shaq. pardon my simpleton canadian knowledge of the NBA, but it seems to me that the doormats are still doormats and the competition is limited to the big market cities.

its like fans think a cap is the answer to everything. be careful what you wish for.

dr
I know nothing about the NBA cap, nor do I care at all about it. There are many ways to design a cap, I'll leave it to the owners AND players to come up with a reasonable system once they quit all the posturing and get down to business.

Be careful what you wish for? I wish for a system where every team has the same opportunity to run their team and be competetive. Right now, a handfull of teams can be competetive over the long term, everyone else has to go through long periods of rebuilding, followed by brief periods of succes. How is that good for the league or the fans? (Please consider ALL the fans, not just those in the privileged markets...)

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Old
06-07-2004, 09:43 AM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djhn579
I wish for a system where every team has the same opportunity to run their team and be competetive. Right now, a handfull of teams can be competetive over the long term, everyone else has to go through long periods of rebuilding, followed by brief periods of succes. How is that good for the league or the fans? (Please consider ALL the fans, not just those in the privileged markets...)


djhn579 sums up exactly how the fans of 20+ teams in the NHL feel. That in itself is just as bad as the owners losing money.

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Old
06-07-2004, 08:38 PM
  #336
me2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue
That's an interesting point. Conversely look at Vancouver, they are seeing great success with attendance despite the team not have much success on the ice.

The fans there seem to be looking at the decent regular season success and are buying into the notion that it will translate into post season success.

They are selling out on the idea that the team can win the cup, even if they are the only ones.

Actually I'd say they are selling out because

a) the team is going well, generating more interest for casual fans

b) fans like going to games when they think the team has a chance of success. Not a lot of fans enjoy paying out $100 for an evening to watch their team get slaughtered.

The playoffs have little to do with it.

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