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07-06-2008, 09:53 AM
  #26
darrenturcotte#8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Renney has done nothing to warrant any negative response from fans, other then the occasional odd line combination.
Do you remember Nylander being on the ice with under 2 min to go in game 5 vs Buff???!!! We ice the puck and now Nylander is stuck out there as the only Center. Of course, Jagr is right next to him as our second worst defensive player. HOW CAN YOU HAVE THOSE GUYS OUT THERE WITH 2 MIN LEFT???!!!! There will never be an excuse for having that line on the ice in that situation. It was a complete and total failure on Renney's part and he should have been fired on the spot for sleeping at the wheel during the most important game the Rangers played in a decade.

Want more? Nigel Dawes was the best player in camp last season. I watched him in all the pre-season games. (yes, i travel on the road to watch the kids) He was cut because "we didn't have room". We of course had room for Marcel Hossa... I still don't think Nigel has all his confidence back from that. Maybe he will cut him again this year...

Don't you think a good coach would at least try to fix the PP? If we had even a decent PP we beat Pitt.

Renney is great in the locker room and great with the players however, he can't coach a game. In one of his first interviews, he informed us he didn't believe in matchups. He should have been fired then.

I could go on for hours but you guys won't listen. You are right, Renney has done nothing to warrant negative responses...

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07-06-2008, 10:07 AM
  #27
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Regardless of how you feel about Renney it seems pretty clear to me that no one in the organization thinks his job is on the line. When players have been brought in to fit the system for a 6 year contract, I think it says something about Renney's job security.

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07-06-2008, 10:12 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Here it is, Tom.

The chance to prove that you were being held back by Jagr, who wanted everything ran his way.
There is truth in this statement. Of course when you have Jaromir Jagr you play to his strengths. Its a smart coaching move more times than not.

This is going to be very interesting

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07-06-2008, 10:14 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Do you remember Nylander being on the ice with under 2 min to go in game 5 vs Buff???!!! We ice the puck and now Nylander is stuck out there as the only Center. Of course, Jagr is right next to him as our second worst defensive player. HOW CAN YOU HAVE THOSE GUYS OUT THERE WITH 2 MIN LEFT???!!!! There will never be an excuse for having that line on the ice in that situation. It was a complete and total failure on Renney's part and he should have been fired on the spot for sleeping at the wheel during the most important game the Rangers played in a decade.

Want more? Nigel Dawes was the best player in camp last season. I watched him in all the pre-season games. (yes, i travel on the road to watch the kids) He was cut because "we didn't have room". We of course had room for Marcel Hossa... I still don't think Nigel has all his confidence back from that. Maybe he will cut him again this year...

Don't you think a good coach would at least try to fix the PP? If we had even a decent PP we beat Pitt.

Renney is great in the locker room and great with the players however, he can't coach a game. In one of his first interviews, he informed us he didn't believe in matchups. He should have been fired then.

I could go on for hours but you guys won't listen. You are right, Renney has done nothing to warrant negative responses...
First off the pp has to shoot the puck and if they dont its the coaches fault??.....he tried so many line combos to switch it up......he couldnt sit jagr becuase then fans def would have called for his head so the pp had to go thru jagr and jagr would just hold and hold and hold and never do anything with it except waste time

I didnt see dawes training camp last season so i dont really know about that one....so even if he did say he wasnt ready oh well he made a mistake so your saying if dawes came and played the season from day 1 we would have advanced past the 2nd round??? come on now

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07-06-2008, 10:16 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post

Nigel Dawes was the best player in camp last season. I watched him in all the pre-season games. (yes, i travel on the road to watch the kids) He was cut because "we didn't have room". We of course had room for Marcel Hossa... I still don't think Nigel has all his confidence back from that.
Whaaaaaaa, I'm a rookie that was sent back to Hartford to develop.

If Nigel cant handle that he's not tough enough for the NHL. I think he'll be fine and the process is a fair one for ALL the players involved.

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07-06-2008, 10:17 AM
  #31
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I'm gonna miss ya shanny

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07-06-2008, 10:17 AM
  #32
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Some of the reasoning here is lame and overblown.

Crying about spilled milk is unproductive in it's own right.

Crying about milk that was spilled years ago is down right ridiculous.

Renney has to deal with full roster turnover here.

Anyone expecting a Cup or a Conference Finals appearance, really needs to check their expectations.

If we get booted in the second round of a transition year, that would not be a monumental failure for a team that still needs another legit top 6 winger, a reliable 7th defenseman, and a backup goaltender that can play against any team not from Toronto or Philadelphia.

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07-06-2008, 10:19 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
Regardless of how you feel about Renney it seems pretty clear to me that no one in the organization thinks his job is on the line. When players have been brought in to fit the system for a 6 year contract, I think it says something about Renney's job security.
He's a good fit. Hes great with the media. He mans up on occassion. Hes great at player development and he managed some BIGTIME egos in the room the last season and 1/2

His team just got a pretty stiff overhaul. This will be interesting

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07-06-2008, 10:24 AM
  #34
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I wouldnt count Shanny out yet. Sathers a crafty guy and Shanny would still be very useful in a lesser role. I think everyone will agree. Too many bottom six guys as it is.....dump some $$$ to sign Shanny

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07-06-2008, 10:40 AM
  #35
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this team will probably not be a true contender for another 2-3 years, when sanguinetti, anisimov, and cherepanov will be on the team with atleast a year under their belt

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07-06-2008, 10:59 AM
  #36
darrenturcotte#8
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Originally Posted by BrianLeetch2 View Post
First off the pp has to shoot the puck and if they dont its the coaches fault??.....he tried so many line combos to switch it up......he couldnt sit jagr becuase then fans def would have called for his head so the pp had to go thru jagr and jagr would just hold and hold and hold and never do anything with it except waste time

I didnt see dawes training camp last season so i dont really know about that one....so even if he did say he wasnt ready oh well he made a mistake so your saying if dawes came and played the season from day 1 we would have advanced past the 2nd round??? come on now
In regards to the PP, the only time in 3 freaking years we had a right shot play the left point and a left shot play the right point was when Karel Rackunek scored two goals in a game with Mara out there with him. WE NEVER TRIED IT AGAIN!!!!

Our points never have the ability to go D to D for a one timer and frankly its the reason our PP stinks. You cant shoot when you have no angle, the shot will get blocked. This is hockey 101, a course Tom Renney has clearly never taken. Matt Cullen is a stud on the point, did we use him? No... Chris Drury loves the one timer from the top of the left circle. He ever set up shop there? No...

As for Dawes, its an example of Renney's inability to recognize talent and chemistry. Dawes-Gomez-Shanny had it. Dawes and Gomez still have it but Renney will never leave them alone. Remember how well Avery played with Jagr? Avery gets hurt and we never went back to it. When we were having trouble scoring goals, it was an adjustment Renney had to make and he simply didn't. Renney doesn't believe in matchups or chemistry. Just keeping rolling out the Hollwig-Betts-Orr line and everything will be ok, huh Tom?

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07-06-2008, 11:01 AM
  #37
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I stand corrected But I like what's happening.

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07-06-2008, 11:46 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Here it is, Tom.

The chance to prove that you were being held back by Jagr, who wanted everything ran his way.

Here's your chance to prove that it's not your fault the power play sucked last year.

Here's your chance to prove that this team is better off younger, and faster.

Here's your chance to prove that you could be the coach to take this team to the top.

There are no excuses for him now. This is how he wanted it, and he's got what he wants. Now, he has to make it work, and take accountability when it does and doesn't work.
This is the greatest post I have ever read. I agree 10000000000%

If he fails, then we know its him and that Jagr and co. was held back by him actually.

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07-06-2008, 11:54 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Dubinsky View Post
This is the greatest post I have ever read. I agree 10000000000%

If he fails, then we know its him and that Jagr and co. was held back by him actually.
like i said if they get to exactly where they gotten the past 2 seasons what is it? Failure or Success?

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07-06-2008, 11:59 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Great Dubinsky View Post
This is the greatest post I have ever read. I agree 10000000000%

If he fails, then we know its him and that Jagr and co. was held back by him actually.
But what if Zherdev doesn't progress as hoped and really does have issues adjusting.

What if Redden and Naslund continue to regress and do not live up to their contracts/names?

If Staal and/or Dubinsky have sophomore slumps (entirely possible for Dubinsky) then where are we?

How could you attribute that to Renney failing? This team has a lot of question marks going into the season, but I don't think Renney is one of them.

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07-06-2008, 12:01 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Do you remember Nylander being on the ice with under 2 min to go in game 5 vs Buff???!!! We ice the puck and now Nylander is stuck out there as the only Center. Of course, Jagr is right next to him as our second worst defensive player. HOW CAN YOU HAVE THOSE GUYS OUT THERE WITH 2 MIN LEFT???!!!! There will never be an excuse for having that line on the ice in that situation. It was a complete and total failure on Renney's part and he should have been fired on the spot for sleeping at the wheel during the most important game the Rangers played in a decade.

Want more? Nigel Dawes was the best player in camp last season. I watched him in all the pre-season games. (yes, i travel on the road to watch the kids) He was cut because "we didn't have room". We of course had room for Marcel Hossa... I still don't think Nigel has all his confidence back from that. Maybe he will cut him again this year...Don't you think a good coach would at least try to fix the PP? If we had even a decent PP we beat Pitt.

Renney is great in the locker room and great with the players however, he can't coach a game. In one of his first interviews, he informed us he didn't believe in matchups. He should have been fired then.

I could go on for hours but you guys won't listen. You are right, Renney has done nothing to warrant negative responses...
That might be the best point i have heard in months on here. Dawes outplayed the entire team in camp and yet Hoss was handed a spot. Renny picks a dog and a favorite every camp. great point i love dawes hope he nets 23 this season

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07-06-2008, 12:03 PM
  #42
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Bottom line: There is no money to sign Shanahan. Which means Renney will preside over a team with a new captain and two new alternate captains. This truly does become Gomez's and Drury's team
.


...exactly why i was leaning more towards not signing jagr and shanny....its time for this team to have real leadership with drury and gomez at the helm..and as long as either of these shanny or jagr were on the team that would not happen

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07-06-2008, 01:07 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
In regards to the PP, the only time in 3 freaking years we had a right shot play the left point and a left shot play the right point was when Karel Rackunek scored two goals in a game with Mara out there with him. WE NEVER TRIED IT AGAIN!!!!

Our points never have the ability to go D to D for a one timer and frankly its the reason our PP stinks. You cant shoot when you have no angle, the shot will get blocked. This is hockey 101, a course Tom Renney has clearly never taken. Matt Cullen is a stud on the point, did we use him? No... Chris Drury loves the one timer from the top of the left circle. He ever set up shop there? No...

As for Dawes, its an example of Renney's inability to recognize talent and chemistry. Dawes-Gomez-Shanny had it. Dawes and Gomez still have it but Renney will never leave them alone. Remember how well Avery played with Jagr? Avery gets hurt and we never went back to it. When we were having trouble scoring goals, it was an adjustment Renney had to make and he simply didn't. Renney doesn't believe in matchups or chemistry. Just keeping rolling out the Hollwig-Betts-Orr line and everything will be ok, huh Tom?
And to think that we have been wasting our time pinning our hopes on a coach who.......... Hmm off the top of my head..... is a former Canadien National coach. Led the Kamloops Blazers to back to titles and a Memorial Cup.Head coach of Team Canada. Helped lead Team Canada to Gold medals on 05 and 06 and a silver in 07. Director of player personnel for the NY Rangers and former head coach of the Canucks. Oh and I believe he coached Team Canada in the 94 Olympics. Think he got a medal there too. I'm impressed that Tom was able to accomplish so much with such limited vision.

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07-06-2008, 01:33 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by HAPPY HOUR View Post
And to think that we have been wasting our time pinning our hopes on a coach who.......... Hmm off the top of my head..... is a former Canadien National coach. Led the Kamloops Blazers to back to titles and a Memorial Cup.Head coach of Team Canada. Helped lead Team Canada to Gold medals on 05 and 06 and a silver in 07. Director of player personnel for the NY Rangers and former head coach of the Canucks. Oh and I believe he coached Team Canada in the 94 Olympics. Think he got a medal there too. I'm impressed that Tom was able to accomplish so much with such limited vision.

AMAZING!!! I HAD NO IDEA HE HAD SO MUCH SUCCESS IN THE NHL...

And he won the Memorial Cup IN 1992!!!!!

I just don't understand how he was able to pull it off with talentless guys like Scott Neidermayer on his junior team. Someone more skeptical than myself might point out that having success with one of the greatest d-men ever and then having success with Team Canada doesn't necessarily mean he's the most talented coach in the world.


Last edited by darrenturcotte#8: 07-06-2008 at 01:42 PM.
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07-06-2008, 01:48 PM
  #45
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That might be the best point i have heard in months on here. Dawes outplayed the entire team in camp and yet Hoss was handed a spot. Renny picks a dog and a favorite every camp. great point i love dawes hope he nets 23 this season
The answer is simple... Sending Hossa down would require him to pass through waivers... Sending Dawes down, did not...

That's all there was to it... Rangers weren't ready to dump Hossa....

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07-06-2008, 02:02 PM
  #46
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That's all fair enough, but I don't think he ever made excuses, or asked for people to make them for him. Let's not pretend otherwise.
I never said he did. The thing is that part of me thinks he was being held back by Jagr, the other part thinks that he might not have what it takes.

I'm not saying that Renney in specific made excuses, but the way I see is that Jaromir was somewhat of an obstacle in the way of how he wanted this team to be built and how he wanted them to play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
There is truth in this statement. Of course when you have Jaromir Jagr you play to his strengths. Its a smart coaching move more times than not.

This is going to be very interesting
Exactly, and I can't blame him for doing that.

But now is his chance to prove that he's been held back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
If we get booted in the second round of a transition year, that would not be a monumental failure for a team that still needs another legit top 6 winger, a reliable 7th defenseman, and a backup goaltender that can play against any team not from Toronto or Philadelphia.
Excellent point. I hope Vally does better against other teams this year. Maybe if we play him enough he can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Our points never have the ability to go D to D for a one timer and frankly its the reason our PP stinks. You cant shoot when you have no angle, the shot will get blocked. This is hockey 101, a course Tom Renney has clearly never taken. Matt Cullen is a stud on the point, did we use him? No... Chris Drury loves the one timer from the top of the left circle. He ever set up shop there? No...
Matt Cullen wasn't exactly a "stud on the point," and Drury was given a small chance to take those one timers from the top of the left circle.

Unfortunately, with Jagr, the power play had to be run the way he wanted it, or else he wasn't happy and didn't produce.

Quote:
As for Dawes, its an example of Renney's inability to recognize talent and chemistry. Dawes-Gomez-Shanny had it. Dawes and Gomez still have it but Renney will never leave them alone. Remember how well Avery played with Jagr? Avery gets hurt and we never went back to it. When we were having trouble scoring goals, it was an adjustment Renney had to make and he simply didn't. Renney doesn't believe in matchups or chemistry. Just keeping rolling out the Hollwig-Betts-Orr line and everything will be ok, huh Tom?
I see what you're getting at, he does change up line combinations too often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Dubinsky View Post
This is the greatest post I have ever read. I agree 10000000000%

If he fails, then we know its him and that Jagr and co. was held back by him actually.
While there are a lot of things that can attribute to his failure, if he can't get the team together sometime within these next few years, I'd say he's done then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pugs35 View Post
But what if Zherdev doesn't progress as hoped and really does have issues adjusting.

What if Redden and Naslund continue to regress and do not live up to their contracts/names?

If Staal and/or Dubinsky have sophomore slumps (entirely possible for Dubinsky) then where are we?

How could you attribute that to Renney failing? This team has a lot of question marks going into the season, but I don't think Renney is one of them.
I don't think Renney is necessarily a question mark, but I think he has a lot to prove now, and now has the freedom to do so, is what I'm saying.

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07-06-2008, 02:55 PM
  #47
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"It's the way he wants it so he gets it.. some men you just can't change".
Wow. This song was on my computer when I read this post...freaky

Back on topic, good for Tom, I get more and more excited for the season to start every day.

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07-06-2008, 03:03 PM
  #48
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the funny thing is sooooo many people wanted hossa on the top line at the beginning of last season because of the way he played with jagr the season before....now im not saying who, because i honeslt dont remember but there were countless people who really thought hossa had turned the corner and was going to reach his potential

on dawes, the reason renney kept sending him down was because he isnt a bottom line player.....if he was he wouldve made the team out of camp......his skills would be wasted there so renney decided to send him down so he could keep getting playing time(which IMO was a good decision) and told him what he could work on(his defensive awareness).....in the ideal world would he have been sent down?....no, but the rangers had nhlers in the spots where he was trying to go like shanny, avery, straka, jagr, callahan, prucha, hossa.........blaming renney for what he did to dawes isnt quite correct as dawes had a solid year as a rookie and he made long strides to becoming a second line player in the nhl....did he not?

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07-06-2008, 03:35 PM
  #49
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blaming renney for what he did to dawes isnt quite correct as dawes had a solid year as a rookie and he made long strides to becoming a second line player in the nhl....did he not?

Dawes was the best player in camp and at times looked dominant. At no point did he return to that form and while we will never know if harmed him or helped him, I can definitively say that you don't cut the best player in camp EVER. Don't tell the kid he has a shot at making the team if he works hard, if after he kills himself in the off season and dominates in camp you intend to send him down anyway to protect the likes of Marcel Hossa. You guys have to be kidding me on this...

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07-06-2008, 03:45 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by HAPPY HOUR View Post
And to think that we have been wasting our time pinning our hopes on a coach who.......... Hmm off the top of my head..... is a former Canadien National coach. Led the Kamloops Blazers to back to titles and a Memorial Cup.Head coach of Team Canada. Helped lead Team Canada to Gold medals on 05 and 06 and a silver in 07. Director of player personnel for the NY Rangers and former head coach of the Canucks. Oh and I believe he coached Team Canada in the 94 Olympics. Think he got a medal there too. I'm impressed that Tom was able to accomplish so much with such limited vision.
I was with you up to the Team Canada thing. Maggie Trudeau could lead Team Canada to a gold medal. If Canada put 3 teams in the olympics, all 3 would win the 3 medals. They have all the talent.

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